Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[Eli Islands]

Leviticus 19:19 "Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."
Leviticus 19:27 "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads."
Leviticus 19:19 "Thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed."
Leviticus 10:9 "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die."
so you are telling me you believe and follow every single thing in Leviticus?

The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Yes, that is why we confess our sins and seek repentance. We are called to remember that we are the worst of sinners.

[Eli Islands]

Galatians 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

You should try reading in context:

8 You do well if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For the one who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

He's not arguing for the abolishment of the law.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Galatians 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

That's referencing that, before Christ, strict following of the Law was necessary, because there was no redemption.

[Eli Islands]

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

You should try reading in context:

8 You do well if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11 For the one who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

He's not arguing for the abolishment of the law.

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Galatians 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

That doesn't mean we are abolished from the law or that following the law is a sin.

It simply refers to the practice of Judaizing. Which was considered wrong doctrine.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Yes, the Council of Jerusalem is a definitive break from Jewish tradition, but not from established Jewish texts.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You should try reading in context:



He's not arguing for the abolishment of the law.

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

[Hakons]

You should try reading in context:



He's not arguing for the abolishment of the law.

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Eli, ask yourself this: why has Christianity continued to hold sexual immorality in all forms as sinful? Either a, the Church and its hundreds of thousands of theologians and priests over the last two thousands years are correct, or b, you are smarter than this massive collection of thought and have discovered the truth by yourself.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Then listen to Christ: 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Christ upheld the morality imbedded in the Law. We know what sexual immorality is because of the sexual immoralities declared in the Law: incest, homosexual sex, adultry, fornication and all the litanies that flow from them.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Galatians 3:23–25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

I'm not denying that, You're missing the point. The morality of the law is upheld. Christ does not absolve humanity of leading sin free lives. Christ litterally says "sexual immorality defiles a man". We know what sexual immorality is because it is defined by the law, even if we are ransomed from the punishments under the law.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

I'd say that for the most part it is a break from committing actions and create codes of conduct that we think please God (which is what Jewish people did biblically) to actually trying to live with the thought that it is through God's mercy that we will be saved.

[Eli Islands]

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Eli, ask yourself this: why has Christianity continued to hold sexual immorality in all forms as sinful? Either a, the Church and its hundreds of thousands of theologians and priests over the last two thousands years are correct, or b, you are smarter than this massive collection of thought and have discovered the truth by yourself.

I have never said I am smarter than anyone and a lot of people agree with my statements (not on this forum obviously)

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

I'd say that for the most part it is a break from committing actions and create codes of conduct that we think please God (which is what Jewish people did biblically) to actually trying to live with the thought that it is through God's mercy that we will be saved.

I agree, but part of seeking God's mercy is asking for forgiveness of sin and trying to be strong for the Lord.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Eli, ask yourself this: why has Christianity continued to hold sexual immorality in all forms as sinful? Either a, the Church and its hundreds of thousands of theologians and priests over the last two thousands years are correct, or b, you are smarter than this massive collection of thought and have discovered the truth by yourself.

I have never said I am smarter than anyone and a lot of people agree with my statements (not on this forum obviously)

Yes, Christians should not follow the fullness of the law.

That doesn't mean the law is immoral. In fact, Jesus upholds the law as moral and God-given.

[Eli Islands]

I didn't say he was but the part that I was arguing was "The Council of Jerusalem declares that some dietary and all Law on sexual immorality should be followed by gentiles. The Law, in its fullness, is for the Jews."

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

but the law was given to Israelites not to christians

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

but the law was given to Israelites not to christians

It was Israel which bore Christ, so that we may become the new Israel.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, because that is what the Bible says:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

but the law was given to Israelites not to christians

Christians were given the law, too.

We were given the Law of Moses' inheritance of the true teachings as they were meant to be followed by the Jewish people from the Son of God.

In other words, we're following, or we're supposed to follow, the true meaning of the law as it was realized through Jesus Christ, not the law as it is written in the Pentateuch.

[Eli Islands]

but the law was given to Israelites not to christians

Christians were given the law, too.

We were given the Law of Moses' inheritance of the true teachings as they were meant to be followed by the Jewish people from the Son of God.

In other words, we're following, or we're supposed to follow, the true meaning of the law as it was realized through Jesus Christ, not the law as it is written in the Pentateuch.

the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37-39)

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Christians were given the law, too.

We were given the Law of Moses' inheritance of the true teachings as they were meant to be followed by the Jewish people from the Son of God.

In other words, we're following, or we're supposed to follow, the true meaning of the law as it was realized through Jesus Christ, not the law as it is written in the Pentateuch.

the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37-39)

That's the Great Synthesis, or that in which all of the law and prophets' teachings can be boiled down to.

Jesus didn't change anything by saying this.

[Hakons]

Eli, ask yourself this: why has Christianity continued to hold sexual immorality in all forms as sinful? Either a, the Church and its hundreds of thousands of theologians and priests over the last two thousands years are correct, or b, you are smarter than this massive collection of thought and have discovered the truth by yourself.

I have never said I am smarter than anyone and a lot of people agree with my statements (not on this forum obviously)

A "lot of people" may agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you are at odds with almost all present day Churches and Church orthodoxy dating back to the 1st century. If you are theologically at odds with almost a complete majority of Christendom, it is likely your theology is wrong.

[Eli Islands]

the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37-39)

That's the Great Synthesis, or that in which all of the law and prophets' teachings can be boiled down to.

Jesus didn't change anything by saying this.

so if I eat pork I've committed a sin?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That's the Great Synthesis, or that in which all of the law and prophets' teachings can be boiled down to.

Jesus didn't change anything by saying this.

so if I eat pork I've committed a sin?

No. You're thinking in terms of what the Pentateuch says.

What the Pentateuch says, and what Jesus came to teach us what the Pentateuch means are two different things.

Again, Jesus came to give us the full realization of the law, he did not come to give us an entirely different law.

[Hakons]

That's the Great Synthesis, or that in which all of the law and prophets' teachings can be boiled down to.

Jesus didn't change anything by saying this.

so if I eat pork I've committed a sin?

Here's a video by LutheranSatire on the topic the Old Law and what is carried over into the New Law. I'm not Lutheran and I think the creator can be too harsh on other Christian denominations, but I feel like this offers a basic analysis. It also shows you are following the same argumentative path of atheists, which is a bad sign for a professed Christian such as yourself.

[Eli Islands]

I have never said I am smarter than anyone and a lot of people agree with my statements (not on this forum obviously)

A "lot of people" may agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you are at odds with almost all present day Churches and Church orthodoxy dating back to the 1st century. If you are theologically at odds with almost a complete majority of Christendom, it is likely your theology is wrong.

so if I was protestant and didn't pray to saints you would consider my theology wrong because the vast majority of christians pray to saints