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The Sixties Scoop

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Camicon
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The Sixties Scoop

Postby Camicon » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:39 pm

The Sixties Scoop was an effort by the Canadian government, beginning in the early 1960's and continuing to the late 1980's, to use the child welfare system to remove aboriginal children from their families and place them into adoptive and foster families throughout Canada, the United States, and western Europe. Ostensibly, this was done so that the children would have access to a better public education, following the abolition of the compulsory residential school system in the 1950's. Somewhere around 20,000 aboriginal children were caught up in this.

This came up in the news recently after a number of class action lawsuits against the federal government were filed by survivors in BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Ontario. A 2009 lawsuit, filed by Marcia Brown Martel and Robert Commenda, was appealed by the federal government. The appeal was dismissed in 2014 by the Ontario Superior Court.

Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger issued an official apology back in June, the first such official apology from a provincial government, and was well met by aboriginal communities in Manitoba. However, they are calling for compensation from the government to help them address the incredibly damaging effects that they still suffer from.


CBC published another article today, focusing on the story of survivors like Marlene Orgeron.

Marlene and her brothers were sold to a family in Louisiana for $30,000.

Willy Fast was sold to a family in Indiana for $10,000.

Carla Williams was sold to a family in Holland for $6,400.

Twins Diane and Debra were sold to Pennsylvania for $10,000.

If former adoption agents, like Barbara Tremitiere of the Pennsylvania-based Tressler Lutheran Home for Children are to be believed, they had no idea this was happening. Tremitiere said that her agency charged fees of under $2,000 to coordinate an adoption for "special needs" children, which all aboriginal children were considered to be.

The Children's Bureau of New Orleans apparently charged nearly $4,000 to coordinate such adoptions.

The Manitoba government issued a moratorium in 1982, ending this practice in the province.


I'm not really sure what to say. This is horrific, and the fact that nothing more than a simple apology has been done for aboriginal communities in Canada is a national disgrace.

Canada, the United States, and who knows how many of our allies in western Europe, were engaging in what was essentially human trafficking, continuing the genocide that was begun by the residential schools. Government sanctioned human trafficking of children. In the goddamn 1960's.

I'd like to have a drink right about now, but I have to drive to a hockey game in a few minutes so that will have to wait until I get home. In the meantime, NSG, discuss.
Last edited by Camicon on Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:07 pm

Camicon wrote:I'm not really sure what to say. This is horrific, and the fact that nothing more than a simple apology has been done for aboriginal communities in Canada is a national disgrace.


That's all the Aborigines in Australia got as well. Just an apology from Kevin Rudd. No compensation. Just an apology.
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Postby Sassinia » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:11 pm

Typical western enslavement/genocide of other peoples.
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Postby USS Monitor » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:37 pm

The government should offer some kind of compensation to the people who were directly affected and are still alive.
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Postby Camicon » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:02 am


While the gesture might be appreciated, how does a holiday do anything to heal the trauma or fix the communities?
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Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:04 am

I believe the government should compensate the communities a lot more then what we have, however I detest saying sorry, the people shouldn't have to say sorry for something most wouldn't have been involved in.
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Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:05 am

Sassinia wrote:Typical western enslavement/genocide of other peoples.


Typical of someone who doesn't recognise the good the west has done, and has to look to the past for judgements.
Last edited by FelrikTheDeleted on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Camicon » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:06 am

FelrikTheDeleted wrote:I believe the government should compensate the communities a lot more then what we have, however I detest saying sorry, the people shouldn't have to say sorry for something most wouldn't have been involved in.

The government is apologizing, not the people.
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Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:07 am

Camicon wrote:
FelrikTheDeleted wrote:I believe the government should compensate the communities a lot more then what we have, however I detest saying sorry, the people shouldn't have to say sorry for something most wouldn't have been involved in.

The government is apologizing, not the people.


Not from what I remember, at least here in Australia.

Nonetheless, the Canadian Government should do more then apologise.
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:09 am

Sassinia wrote:Typical western enslavement/genocide of other peoples.

That 'enslavement/genocide' is rather typical of all Human civilisations, I have no idea why you must single-out the West for this. Confirmation-bias?


A horrible day. Probably does more to install guilt within White Australians rather than anything else. I owe no apology to any aboriginal person, and nor does our current Government.



I can only say that the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise.
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Postby Camicon » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:13 am

Minzerland II wrote:

A horrible day. Probably does more to install guilt within White Australians rather than anything else. I owe no apology to any aboriginal person, and nor does our current Government.



I can only say that the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise.

If not the people, and not the government, who will be apologizing?
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:14 am

Compensation is needed as well as reconciliation and more mutual dialogue to improve the quality of life of the native population.

Apologies only go so far.
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:15 am

Camicon wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:A horrible day. Probably does more to install guilt within White Australians rather than anything else. I owe no apology to any aboriginal person, and nor does our current Government.



I can only say that the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise.

If not the people, and not the government, who will be apologizing?

No one. What is done is done can't be changed. Apologising does nothing to help their situation.
Last edited by Minzerland II on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:17 am

Minzerland II wrote:
Camicon wrote:If not the people, and not the government, who will be apologizing?

No one. What is done is done can't be changed. Apologising does nothing to help their situation.

Reconciliation and mutual dialogue is preferable in such a scenario, as it doesn't use any form of 'sins of our forefathers' kind of deal. Most of the time and ideally that is.
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Postby Camicon » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:17 am

Minzerland II wrote:
Camicon wrote:If not the people, and not the government, who will be apologizing?

No one. What is done is done can't be changed. Apologiesing does nothing to help their situation.

But you said "the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise".

Your words. They deserve apologies. So, if you don't think Australians or the Australian government should be apologizing, then who?
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:20 am

Nusaresa wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:No one. What is done is done can't be changed. Apologising does nothing to help their situation.

Reconciliation and mutual dialogue is preferable in such a scenario, as it doesn't use any form of 'sins of our forefathers' kind of deal. Most of the time and ideally that is.

That is preferable. Otherwise, I will not have myself kowtow to them for something I had nothing to do with; I will not apologies.
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Postby Custerburgh » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:22 am

That's shocking.

The government should absolutely offer reconciliation, an apology and compensation.

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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:24 am

Camicon wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:No one. What is done is done can't be changed. Apologiesing does nothing to help their situation.

But you said "the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise".

Your words. They deserve apologies. So, if you don't think Australians or the Australian government should be apologizing, then who?

Oops, twisting my own words. Let me rephrase. The administration which committed the policy. I believe the members still live, no?
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Postby Camicon » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:30 am

Minzerland II wrote:
Camicon wrote:But you said "the people and their families who were directly affected deserve our compensation and apologise".

Your words. They deserve apologies. So, if you don't think Australians or the Australian government should be apologizing, then who?

Oops, twisting my own words. Let me rephrase. The administration which committed the policy. I believe the members still live, no?

Presumably, but those Australians, like those individuals in Canada, were acting under the auspices of the government. The government, while it consists of individuals, is also something that exists beyond them. So why would an official apology from the government not be warranted?
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Love is hell. Hell is love. Hell is asking to be loved. - Emily Haines and the Soft Skeleton, Detective Daughter

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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:36 am

Camicon wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:Oops, twisting my own words. Let me rephrase. The administration which committed the policy. I believe the members still live, no?

Presumably, but those Australians, like those individuals in Canada, were acting under the auspices of the government. The government, while it consists of individuals, is also something that exists beyond them. So why would an official apology from the government not be warranted?

Why is the Government, a tool of the elected party, which is no longer in power, being punished for the crime of the administrative party?
Last edited by Minzerland II on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:39 am

Minzerland II wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:Reconciliation and mutual dialogue is preferable in such a scenario, as it doesn't use any form of 'sins of our forefathers' kind of deal. Most of the time and ideally that is.

That is preferable. Otherwise, I will not have myself kowtow to them for something I had nothing to do with; I will not apologies.


No one is forcing you to apologize.
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Postby FelrikTheDeleted » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:40 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:That is preferable. Otherwise, I will not have myself kowtow to them for something I had nothing to do with; I will not apologies.


No one is forcing you to apologize.


Not forced; usually expected however, for a time if one did not apologise for deeds of the past, one would be looked down on.
Last edited by FelrikTheDeleted on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:42 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Minzerland II wrote:That is preferable. Otherwise, I will not have myself kowtow to them for something I had nothing to do with; I will not apologies.


No one is forcing you to apologize.

Societal pressure forces us to.
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