Fascism Discussion Thread

[Arachno-Satinism]

Clerical fascism is awful. It basically pulls away all things remotely decent about fascist philosophy. Although I've never been that big a fan of fascism to begin with, Gentile was fine but historically the actual Fascists themselves were highly opportunistic bastards, Fascist movement in general was a shameless ploy of reactionaries, and fascists nowadays are merely shameless, complacent racist democrats who joined the movement to antagonize minorities.

[PaNTuXIa]

Corporatism is cool, some aspects of fascism are fine, but jingoistic and nationalistic fascism can be a bit extreme.

[Conscentia]

Corporatism is cool, some aspects of fascism are fine,

Did you stop being an anarchist communist?

but jingoistic and nationalistic fascism can be a bit extreme.

All fascism is nationalist - it's central to the ideology.

[Dagashi Shojo]

Clerical fascism is awful. It basically pulls away all things remotely decent about fascist philosophy. Although I've never been that big a fan of fascism to begin with, Gentile was fine but historically the actual Fascists themselves were highly opportunistic bastards, Fascist movement in general was a shameless ploy of reactionaries, and fascists nowadays are merely shameless, complacent racist democrats who joined the movement to antagonize minorities.

How is Gentile not an actual Fascist? It would be hard to make a case that Mussolini, Marinetti, Mosley, and De Rivera were reactionaries plotting to keep the old order.

[Arachno-Satinism]

Clerical fascism is awful. It basically pulls away all things remotely decent about fascist philosophy. Although I've never been that big a fan of fascism to begin with, Gentile was fine but historically the actual Fascists themselves were highly opportunistic bastards, Fascist movement in general was a shameless ploy of reactionaries, and fascists nowadays are merely shameless, complacent racist democrats who joined the movement to antagonize minorities.

How is Gentile not an actual Fascist? It would be hard to make a case that Mussolini, Marinetti, Mosley, and De Rivera were reactionaries plotting to keep the old order.

I worded it poorly, I didn't mean to imply that Gentile was not an actual fascist (and how, he was the very intellectual founder himself), I'm saying that of all fascists Gentile was one I liked the most, and perhaps to some extent Marinetti (I romanticize Futurists too much on occasion, maybe). Mussolini appeared to me as too thuglike and opportunistic in his attempt to gain support from the property class, devout Catholics, and later played under the strings of Nazis. There's also the totalitarianism, which I found hard to support.

[Kravanica]

The Fascist Manifesto was actually pretty democratic. It even called for women to be able to vote.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto

[Dagashi Shojo]

The Fascist Manifesto was actually pretty democratic. It even called for women to be able to vote.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto

It was written by some of the "Old Guard" Fascists, Marinetti and De Ambris who provided it with it's syndicalist and futuristic character. At the time, Mussolini had no expectation of heading a national government, and saw the Fascist movement as a coalition of the left & center which wanted to create a democratic government.

How is Gentile not an actual Fascist? It would be hard to make a case that Mussolini, Marinetti, Mosley, and De Rivera were reactionaries plotting to keep the old order.

I worded it poorly, I didn't mean to imply that Gentile was not an actual fascist (and how, he was the very intellectual founder himself), I'm saying that of all fascists Gentile was one I liked the most, and perhaps to some extent Marinetti (I romanticize Futurists too much on occasion, maybe). Mussolini appeared to me as too thuglike and opportunistic in his attempt to gain support from the property class, devout Catholics, and later played under the strings of Nazis. There's also the totalitarianism, which I found hard to support.

I am much too sympathetic to Mussolini on account of his syndicalist leanings and nationalism, though I despise political parties and liked the original direction of the movement. But to use the old cliche, "it's easier said than done." while heretical, he was to a certain extent still a Marxist in some ways. For instance, his dismissal of the Soviet Union because it had not gone through a capitalist stage of development. Like a lot of syndicalists at the time, he thought what Italy needed was production and growth instead of talk about revolution.

[Zaurell]

I know you're denouncing debate but I'm really enjoying ours.

Anyways, we both agree that a change in society's attitude is necessary. The only difference is how we propose this come about. What you are advocating is that we wait for it to come about naturally. My argument would be that the authority figure could bring it about more quickly, thus avoiding some time in which ignorance would still be a strong presence. Your counter to this is the proposal of direct democracy to avoid the authority figure being a member of one of the fringe groups. Now, I see where you are coming from but ideally there would be safeguards in place in choosing the authority figure that would prevent one of the crazies from taking power. Furthermore, I must dispute direct democracy. I dispute this on the grounds that the vast majority of the populace isn't familiar with every nuance of politics nor are they necessarily willing to take the time to become familiar. This could cause quite a few problems when decisions are being made. For example, many people support the government doing all sorts of helpful things. Problem is, these helpful things cost money and nobody likes taxes. Therefore, the programs might not be paid for unless the national debt is increased and that is never a good thing.

EDIT: Off to bed, talk more tomorrow.

Actually, I am suggesting more of a revolution of some sort, ideally one like in Iceland - that would be the most peaceful possible revolution one could have. The other possibility is insurrection until that is possible, and a society with direct democracy and a different attitude towards what society is is reached.
Safeguarding who gets in still has its problems. One cannot tell what an authority figure will be like at face value. If that were the case, all politicians would be amazing and do what we wanted them to. That hasn't happened, ever.
Direct democracy doesn't require everyone to vote, so that shouldn't be a huge problem. Also, if one is educated in what the decision will mean is voting yes or no, then the decision is at least informed. This is compared to what many decisions are like in politics, where they just expect you to know what the outcome actually means.
That issue to explain is the problem with income inequality and the issue of how wage is distributed.

Revolution is rarely peaceful and in today's age, people are a bit too complacent for revolution and insurrection in democratic western nations if you ask me. It seems far more plausible to work through the political system and seize power that way.
Eh, even if the authority figure does turn out to be crazy, there would ideally be a constitution in place to limit what he can do. I imagine a strong judiciary branch capable of having the leader removed from power if he did something that violated the rules.
True, we'd probably have relatively low voter turnout and then we'd be in trouble too as fanatics might be more likely to take the time out of their day to vote on various issues. Educating everyone is ideal but would be a colossal task.
Please elaborate on your point regarding income inequality and wage distribution.

I have trouble determining if Panama is a fascist state. The president of Panama is a member of the Panamenista Party. The Panamenista Party has been categorized as far-right and fascist by some. The Wikipedia article about the party states that they are conservative and populist. It does not say they are fascist. What do you people think?

Nowadays, most non-Fascists who use the term Fascist use it as an insult for anything they dislike. Try looking at Panama's policies in comparison to the video I linked earlier and decide for yourself.

[The New Sea Territory]

Revolution is rarely peaceful and in today's age,

When were revolutions ever peaceful?

A handful of "dramatic" political changes throughout history?

people are a bit too complacent for revolution and insurrection in democratic western nations if you ask me.

Have you seen what's happened in France for months, due to the government pushing labor reform?

It seems far more plausible to work through the political system and seize power that way.

Reformist politics is an implicit agreement to the fundamentals of a political system, by consenting to work within that political system. Because of this, the socioeconomic conditions of a society can only be changed through direct action.

[Kravanica]

Are there really any classical fascist movements left?

It seems like most fascist movements remaining today are dominated by National Socialists.

[Hesse Darmstadt]

One of the most interesting figures of fascism was Augusto Pinochet. He was a far-right dictator that based his regime on Nazi Germany, but some libertarians like him. They appear to like him because of his free-market policies. It is quite contradictory for a libertarian to like a fascist regime though.

He wasn't a Fascist, he believed in an unregulated free market.

[New confederate ramenia]

Can someone explain Actual Idealism to me? I'm a philosophy pleb so I don't understand.

[Hesse Darmstadt]

He wasn't a Fascist, he believed in an unregulated free market.

Why did he adopt the symbolism of the Nazis then?

Nazis are not Fascists, they are National Socialists.

[Jumalariik]

I mean, a Anarchist can be racist and homophobic. There are no rules, after all.

Many wouldn't call that person an anarchist though. As racism and homophobia go against what some consider the core tents of anarchism.

Anarchism=opposition to government

racism, capitalism, homophobia ≠ government

You can therefore be a racist, capitalist, homophobic anarchist.

[Jumalariik]

Clerical Fascism isn't bad.

[Mattopilos]

Many wouldn't call that person an anarchist though. As racism and homophobia go against what some consider the core tents of anarchism.

Anarchism=opposition to government

racism, capitalism, homophobia ≠ government

You can therefore be a racist, capitalist, homophobic anarchist.

Which is funny, because the only group of 'capitalistic anarchist' are Ancaps, and they are far from an actual anarchy.

[Germanic Templars]

Fascism... Well one of the ideologies I do not whole heartily agree with, in fact I "like" it just as much as communism or socialism... I hate those two ideologies.

Which brings me to why am I here - to debate, why else?

[Agrarian Ubermensch]

Can someone explain Actual Idealism to me? I'm a philosophy pleb so I don't understand.

Easy.

Thought = Action.

Any questions?

[Pranovia]

One of the most interesting figures of fascism was Augusto Pinochet. He was a far-right dictator that based his regime on Nazi Germany, but some libertarians like him. They appear to like him because of his free-market policies. It is quite contradictory for a libertarian to like a fascist regime though.

I actually like him because he is brave af.
We might possibly need a Pinochet here in the PH, really.

[Agrarian Ubermensch]

One of the most interesting figures of fascism was Augusto Pinochet. He was a far-right dictator that based his regime on Nazi Germany, but some libertarians like him. They appear to like him because of his free-market policies. It is quite contradictory for a libertarian to like a fascist regime though.

Pinochet was about as Fascist as Franco.

He may be filed under the fuzzy generic libleft definition of "fascism" (small "f") but then so would Reagan and Thatcher.

[Augusta Pinochet]

One of the most interesting figures of fascism was Augusto Pinochet. He was a far-right dictator that based his regime on Nazi Germany, but some libertarians like him. They appear to like him because of his free-market policies. It is quite contradictory for a libertarian to like a fascist regime though.

I actually like him because he is brave af.
We might possibly need a Pinochet here in the PH, really.

You know where to find me fam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o

[Yorkers]

Not a fascist. Just a nativist and a bit of a white nationalist.

Hopefully this thread isn't as garbage as the RWDT.

[Brr (Ancient)]

Stalinist here, мои братаны.

I'm very interested in the unification of nationalism and socialism which is done by national bolsheviks and other third positionists.

[Dagashi Shojo]

Can someone explain Actual Idealism to me? I'm a philosophy pleb so I don't understand.

Like most Hegelian ideas, it's complicated to explain. Essentially, it holds that the act of thinking, and not a thinker, thought, or a prior to be the creator of reality.

[Germanic Templars]

Not a fascist. Just a nativist and a bit of a white nationalist.

Hopefully this thread isn't as garbage as the RWDT.

Oi! RWDT is great thread, made only great by the proactive entrepreneurs that support Capitalism and not so much by the shit posting 40K references, anime, and other things that dump shit on it to make shit.