Disney Pulls Costume - "Cultural Misappropriation"

[Liriena]

And how is it bastardized?

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

[Gauthier]

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

Which is like "speaking" Chinese by spouting gibberish like "Ching Chong Ding Dong Hong Wang" and so forth.

[San Lumen]

Its truly ridiculous how politically correct society has become. People get offended by every little thing. We have nonsense like safe spaces and trigger warnings. It really has to stop.

[Herskerstad]

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

Are we going to start crying racism each time a cartoon makes up a fictional set of runes in a viking-inspired flick? It's on a fictional island.

[Liriena]

Its truly ridiculous how politically correct society has become. People get offended by every little thing. We have nonsense like safe spaces and trigger warnings. It really has to stop.

Society has become "politically correct"?

Are we sharing the same internet?

[Des-Bal]

This is good because it means in the spirit of political correctness Disney has fewer opportunities to make money on films that showcase other cultures. Sorry I typed good when I meant the exact fucking opposite of what any sane person should want.

[Gauthier]

Its truly ridiculous how politically correct society has become. People get offended by every little thing. We have nonsense like safe spaces and trigger warnings. It really has to stop.

Society has become "politically correct"?

Are we sharing the same internet?

More like the same side complaining about political correctness suddenly cries foul and demands their very own safe spaces when they're called something they don't like... such as "deplorable".

[New Edom]

Disney is a company that makes cartoons and stuff like that. They also make anthropomorphic animals. That isn't making light of animal species, it's just a story. Everything Disney does is like this. Next you'll be saying that the crows in "Dumbo" are racist

That's a whole other can of worms but... yeah, they kind of are. Mind you, they are not as bad as that time Mickey got himself a pet African.

I don't find the crows racist. They talk like Black people fromt he American south, but they're also arguably the smartest characters on the show, they are fun and cool and they encourage dumbo to fly. I would argue that other than the mouse and the elephant mom they are the most positive characters on the show, Dumbo just being basically an elephant toddler who doesn'tknow anything.

There have been racist things in Disney, but I don't find the crows among them, nor do I find Uncle Remus particularl racist, since slavery and racism against Black people existed. The fact that he tries to be happy is something that should give us a moment of pause, really, because "12 Years a Slave" is not the whole picture. Even in really hard parts of life there are moments of mirth and joy, because we're human, we try to adapt and prosper.

This is also the spirit of things that is uncomfortable with Gilbert and Sullivan lampooning Japanese Imperial Court society while fully accepting parodies they do of European history. It's not like Japan is some small country that gets kicked around; arguably it's one of the most economically influential nations in the world, a lot of their culture is admirable while some of it is dubious, as with any culture.


Bringing things back to the whole Maui thing, I wish people had actually talked about this rather than having knee jerk reactions. We should be concerned abour racism; I'm not sorry to hear someone brought up the issue, but really, we also ought to be perhaps more thoughtful along with our sensitivity to what others might perceive. What I don't like about this is that it is another example of leadership kind of pandering and giving in on what really is a non issue.

Persoanlly I get more concerned with how the actual portrayal is. I don't expect cultural accuracy from most movies, if I did I'd have more headaches since I would say on average you can assume HOllywood is going to get such things wrong including Western history and present a silly or romanticied view of everything. Disney wants EVERYTHING to be cute, family oriented and charming. Whether it's alien invasions, war, the Middle Ages, you name it.

[Liriena]

That's a whole other can of worms but... yeah, they kind of are. Mind you, they are not as bad as that time Mickey got himself a pet African.

I don't find the crows racist. They talk like Black people fromt he American south, but they're also arguably the smartest characters on the show, they are fun and cool and they encourage dumbo to fly. I would argue that other than the mouse and the elephant mom they are the most positive characters on the show, Dumbo just being basically an elephant toddler who doesn'tknow anything.

You are correct in that they are not a malevolent stereotype, but they are still a stereotype. Them not being the villains doesn't change the fact that they are animalized blackface.

There have been racist things in Disney, but I don't find the crows among them, nor do I find Uncle Remus particularl racist, since slavery and racism against Black people existed. The fact that he tries to be happy is something that should give us a moment of pause, really, because "12 Years a Slave" is not the whole picture. Even in really hard parts of life there are moments of mirth and joy, because we're human, we try to adapt and prosper.

It's not so much that Uncle Remus' depiction itself is racist, so much as the fact that the movie he is the star of overly romanticizes the immediate aftermath of a very dramatic moment in the history of black Americans.

It's akin to making a cutesy comedy for children set in the aftermath of the Nagasaki bombing, and portraying that aftermath as idyllic.

This is also the spirit of things that is uncomfortable with Gilbert and Sullivan lampooning Japanese Imperial Court society while fully accepting parodies they do of European history. It's not like Japan is some small country that gets kicked around; arguably it's one of the most economically influential nations in the world, a lot of their culture is admirable while some of it is dubious, as with any culture.

Yes, but there is the issue of how you lampoon a foreign culture. If your lampooning is grossly stereotypical and condescending, if the lampooning is based on external prejudices and misconceptions rather than an actual understanding of that foreign culture, that's a problem.

One of my favourite Sondheim plays is Pacific Overtures, in no small part because its original staging told its story from an exclusively Japanese point of view, without exoticizing or otherizing Japanese culture, without representing it through foreign stereotypes. And there is a nice bit of retortion to common practices in Western entertainment in how the play decides to represent Westerners, by having Asian actors in whiteface portray them.

Bringing things back to the whole Maui thing, I wish people had actually talked about this rather than having knee jerk reactions. We should be concerned abour racism; I'm not sorry to hear someone brought up the issue, but really, we also ought to be perhaps more thoughtful along with our sensitivity to what others might perceive. What I don't like about this is that it is another example of leadership kind of pandering and giving in on what really is a non issue.

This is an online polemic we're talking about. I do not find it particularly shocking that thoughtful discussion is drowned out by knee jerk reactions.

Would it be nice if things worked differently? Totally. I sure would appreciate discussions on cultural interaction and misappropriation without s***posting and the like monopolizing all the attention.

Persoanlly I get more concerned with how the actual portrayal is. I don't expect cultural accuracy from most movies, if I did I'd have more headaches since I would say on average you can assume HOllywood is going to get such things wrong including Western history and present a silly or romanticied view of everything. Disney wants EVERYTHING to be cute, family oriented and charming. Whether it's alien invasions, war, the Middle Ages, you name it.

True enough.

[Hakons]

People arguing cultural appropriation sound more and more like they're arguing for cultural apartheid.

[Gauthier]

People arguing cultural appropriation sound more and more like they're arguing for cultural apartheid.

Or rather, arguing against minstrelsy.

[Des-Bal]

Or rather, arguing against minstrelsy.

Yes, the purpose of this costume was to laugh at the degeneracy of the Polynesian people.

[Novorobo]

People bitch about "appropriation" and about only portraying white culture... what the fuck is anyone supposed to do here?

Disney should have just ignored the complaints.

[The first Galactic Republic]

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

They're not trying to create genuine Polynesian tattoos. It's supposed to be generic because it's fantasy. Like how Game of Thrones is generic Western European inspired and resembles no specific culture.

[Chessmistress]

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

That's a strawman, attacking a non-issue.
There isn't such thing as a cartoon that is accurate about such details.
Who cares if the tattoos aren't accurate?
Even in many historical movies (not cartoons!) there are wrong details, and no one complained.

The idea that just only "Polynesians" can create a movie about "Polynesians" is also deeply racist.

[Chessmistress]

People arguing cultural appropriation sound more and more like they're arguing for cultural apartheid.

Exactly.
They're actually very harmful towards the very people they're supposed to protect.
There's also a little detail: white and black people cannot have a saying about "cultural misaappropriation" of Polynesians, so protests from white and black people should be ignored.
In example this white redhead woman
https://twitter.com/MichelleEBlau?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
She should be totally ignored, since she isn't Polynesian - she could protest against "cultural misappropriation" of Irish culture, or something, not about "cultural misappropriation" of a culture than isn't her.

[Wallenburg]

^^This.

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

I doubt anyone would cry racism about totally incoherent runes in Brave.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

People arguing cultural appropriation sound more and more like they're arguing for cultural apartheid.

Exactly.
They're actually very harmful towards the very people they're supposed to protect.
There's also a little detail: white and black people cannot have a saying about "cultural misaappropriation" of Polynesians, so protests from white and black people should be ignored.
In example this white redhead woman
https://twitter.com/MichelleEBlau?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
She should be totally ignored, since she isn't Polynesian - she could protest against "cultural misappropriation" of Irish culture, or something, not about "cultural misappropriation" of a culture than isn't her.

Not to mention that Americans are some of the biggest victims of "cultural misappropriation".

[Genivaria]

Exactly.
They're actually very harmful towards the very people they're supposed to protect.
There's also a little detail: white and black people cannot have a saying about "cultural misaappropriation" of Polynesians, so protests from white and black people should be ignored.
In example this white redhead woman
https://twitter.com/MichelleEBlau?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
She should be totally ignored, since she isn't Polynesian - she could protest against "cultural misappropriation" of Irish culture, or something, not about "cultural misappropriation" of a culture than isn't her.

Not to mention that Americans are some of the biggest victims of "cultural misappropriation".

Victims?
Um...yes yes, victims. ....
I prefer that to 'cultural imperialists'.

[Wallenburg]

Not to mention that Americans are some of the biggest victims of "cultural misappropriation".

Victims?
Um...yes yes, victims. ....
I prefer that to 'cultural imperialists'.

If white Americans borrow from other cultures, they are engaging in cultural misappropriation. If other cultures borrow from them, it is American cultural imperialism.

[Genivaria]

Victims?
Um...yes yes, victims. ....
I prefer that to 'cultural imperialists'.

If white Americans borrow from other cultures, they are engaging in cultural misappropriation. If other cultures borrow from them, it is American cultural imperialism.

I assume that was sarcasm?

[Wallenburg]

If white Americans borrow from other cultures, they are engaging in cultural misappropriation. If other cultures borrow from them, it is American cultural imperialism.

I assume that was sarcasm?

Yes.

[Genivaria]

I assume that was sarcasm?

Yes.

Excellent, just checking.

[Liriena]

Starting with the "Polynesian" tattoos that are apparently just gibberish? Creating something that is not actually, genuinely Polynesian, but trying to pass it off as honest to the original?

That's a strawman, attacking a non-issue.
There isn't such thing as a cartoon that is accurate about such details.
Who cares if the tattoos aren't accurate?
Even in many historical movies (not cartoons!) there are wrong details, and no one complained.

The idea that just only "Polynesians" can create a movie about "Polynesians" is also deeply racist.

Good thing I don't suscribe to that idea.

For someone who accused me of incurring in a strawman, you sure were quick to throw one at me.

[Silverakia]

That's a strawman, attacking a non-issue.
There isn't such thing as a cartoon that is accurate about such details.
Who cares if the tattoos aren't accurate?
Even in many historical movies (not cartoons!) there are wrong details, and no one complained.

The idea that just only "Polynesians" can create a movie about "Polynesians" is also deeply racist.

Good thing I don't suscribe to that idea.

For someone who accused me of incurring in a strawman, you sure were quick to throw one at me.

Well, the Polynesian depiction is a complete stereotype, anyways.