Does free will exist from a secular point of view?

[Godular]

There is no such thing as free will. Ours is just a highly complex response to stimulus. Also, this thread seems very much like a help-me-with-my-homework thread.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

And a friendly reminder to vote at the poll!

[The first Galactic Republic]

There is no free will, since every possible outcome is equaly valid. Did you chose between cereal and stay puff marshmallows? That's not free will, they both happened! You just happen to be in the reality where you went with the boring cereal.

Even if this multiverse theory was true, the you that picked the marshmallows is an entirely different entity. "You" didn't pick both.

[Risottia]

It depends from which school of thought you come from.
Both sides (Determinism and Free-Will) have equally valid arguments.

When you can't have a right answer, most likely the question is wrong.

[Conscentia]

And a friendly reminder to vote at the poll!

The moderators don't like threads intended only for polling opinions. Your thread is likely to be locked unless you edit the opening post to include your own opinion.

Threads whose opening posts consist of nothing more than a single question/line of text, OR a link (or C&P'ed text), OR just directs to a poll question, it is considered spam. This being a discussion forum and to prevent directionless threads from developing more spam than my supermarket's shelves, we ask that OPs put a wee bit more work into their OPs.

Please tell us what YOU think, and why.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=88796#p18946099

[The first Galactic Republic]

It depends from which school of thought you come from.
Both sides (Determinism and Free-Will) have equally valid arguments.

When you can't have a right answer, most likely the question is wrong.

Free will discussions tend to be filled with people talking about this rather complex question as if it has a simple definitive answer.

Well then I guess philosophy is over. They can all finally go home then.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

And a friendly reminder to vote at the poll!

The moderators don't like threads intended only for polling opinions. Your thread is likely to be locked unless you edit the opening post to include your own opinion.

Threads whose opening posts consist of nothing more than a single question/line of text, OR a link (or C&P'ed text), OR just directs to a poll question, it is considered spam. This being a discussion forum and to prevent directionless threads from developing more spam than my supermarket's shelves, we ask that OPs put a wee bit more work into their OPs.

Please tell us what YOU think, and why.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=88796#p18946099

Really? Crap, I gave my opinion. I have to say it again?

[Neutraligon]

Still want to know what the OP means by free will. It is kinda hard to answer the question when I am not sure what is being asked.

[Imperial Esplanade]

There is no free will, since every possible outcome is equaly valid. Did you chose between cereal and stay puff marshmallows? That's not free will, they both happened! You just happen to be in the reality where you went with the boring cereal.

This dangerously assumes the existence of alternate realities coexisting simultaneously.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Still want to know what the OP means by free will. It is kinda hard to answer the question when I am not sure what is being asked.

free will
noun
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms: self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy

[Alvecia]

I think we have free will in the sense that even if the exact conditions were the same twice, there is still a random element to the decision making process.

Kind of like Chaos Theory?

Not really. Chaos theory is just super sensitive biological determinism.

[Neutraligon]

Still want to know what the OP means by free will. It is kinda hard to answer the question when I am not sure what is being asked.

free will
noun
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms: self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy

Does responding to stimuli count as constraint? What does constraint of necessity mean? Fate is also not a clear term. I am asking this seriously. Is eating food a constrain of necessity? How about eating a specific food?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Still want to know what the OP means by free will. It is kinda hard to answer the question when I am not sure what is being asked.

free will
noun
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms: self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy

If this is the definition you're working on then I am afraid free will does not exist as postulated by the dictionary definition.

However, there are many different definitions, all of which can vary the result of the answer to the question.

[Conscentia]

Really? Crap, I gave my opinion. I have to say it again?

You did? Sorry, I didn't notice. You don't have to say it again. I don't think the mods will mind that it isn't in the opening post, though I'm not sure - I'm not a mod.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Kind of like Chaos Theory?

Not really. Chaos theory is just super sensitive biological determinism.

Hmmmmmmmm...... So let me ask you. Theoretically, there are 2 universes. And while yes, both of them was subject to random or anomalous elements, all those elements happened to be the same elements, that happened at the same time, in the same ways, at the same places. All the random elements that surrounded people were identical in both universes to the smallest unit of measuring differences. Would the universe be identical? And would we as human choose the same thing in both universes?

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Really? Crap, I gave my opinion. I have to say it again?

You did? Sorry, I didn't notice. You don't have to say it again. I don't think the mods will mind that it isn't in the opening post, though I'm not sure - I'm not a mod.

I did it anyway. Haha! Thanks for the heads up though. I'll remember that for future forums.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Really? Crap, I gave my opinion. I have to say it again?

You did? Sorry, I didn't notice. You don't have to say it again. I don't think the mods will mind that it isn't in the opening post, though I'm not sure - I'm not a mod.

Mods have let it slide before, but if I was him I'd copy-paste the opinion on the OP.

[Conscentia]

I think we have free will in the sense that even if the exact conditions were the same twice, there is still a random element to the decision making process.

1. How can exactly identical conditions produce different results?
2. Even if what you say is true and there is a random element, how is random will "free"? "Random" suggests that you do not will the outcome.

[Alvecia]

Not really. Chaos theory is just super sensitive biological determinism.

Hmmmmmmmm...... So let me ask you. Theoretically, there are 2 universes. And while yes, both of them was subject to random or anomalous elements, all those elements happened to be the same elements, that happened at the same time, in the same ways, at the same places. All the random elements that surrounded people were identical in both universes to the smallest unit of measuring differences. Would the universe be identical? And would we as human choose the same thing in both universes?

You're asking me if two identical universes are identical. The answer is obviously yes.

[Community Values]

Yes, there is. There may be a universe for every scenario, but that doesn't mean I don't pick which one I want (without knowledge of either choices).

[Gages Icelandic Army]

free will
noun
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms: self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy

If this is the definition you're working on then I am afraid free will does not exist as postulated by the dictionary definition.

However, there are many different definitions, all of which can vary the result of the answer to the question.

I think the "free will" you were arguing was closer to what determinalist called the Necessity. The Necessity are the choices that we make, even though the choices were beyond out control. I would agree that that exist, but true free will can't.

[Val Halla]

Ultimate free will can never exist. Have laws to let everyone do anything? Someone will end up exploited by an unregulated loan shark or something. Stop that, well technically you're taking away the loan shark's free will.

[Community Values]

Not really. Chaos theory is just super sensitive biological determinism.

Hmmmmmmmm...... So let me ask you. Theoretically, there are 2 universes. And while yes, both of them was subject to random or anomalous elements, all those elements happened to be the same elements, that happened at the same time, in the same ways, at the same places. All the random elements that surrounded people were identical in both universes to the smallest unit of measuring differences. Would the universe be identical? And would we as human choose the same thing in both universes?

No. At least, not with what we know about science right now. There are random elements in the universe. Would you say that if we had enough information, we could determine patterns out of them?

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Hmmmmmmmm...... So let me ask you. Theoretically, there are 2 universes. And while yes, both of them was subject to random or anomalous elements, all those elements happened to be the same elements, that happened at the same time, in the same ways, at the same places. All the random elements that surrounded people were identical in both universes to the smallest unit of measuring differences. Would the universe be identical? And would we as human choose the same thing in both universes?

You're asking me if two identical universes are identical. The answer is obviously yes.

So then how do you justify, "I think we have free will in the sense that even if the exact conditions were the same twice, there is still a random element to the decision making process." If those variables make humans do A, and in all other universes, those variables make humans do A, then what random elements are you talking about?

[Gages Icelandic Army]

Hmmmmmmmm...... So let me ask you. Theoretically, there are 2 universes. And while yes, both of them was subject to random or anomalous elements, all those elements happened to be the same elements, that happened at the same time, in the same ways, at the same places. All the random elements that surrounded people were identical in both universes to the smallest unit of measuring differences. Would the universe be identical? And would we as human choose the same thing in both universes?

No. At least, not with what we know about science right now. There are random elements in the universe. Would you say that if we had enough information, we could determine patterns out of them?

Wat