Fat shaming and thin privilage

[Uxupox]

Are people really discussing the kid show He-Man as some kind of masculinity power trip that was devised by the patriarchy? Really?

[Liriena]

Are people really discussing the kid show He-Man as some kind of masculinity power trip that was devised by the patriarchy? Really?

I'm pretty sure nobody has said the word "patriarchy" so I don't know where you got that from.

[The East Marches]

Life was so much simpler before everyone got convinced that you need to go to university and pay them vast amounts to become a bigger pansy.

All of these “shaming” problems over every little thing just goes to show you how pathetic people have really become. I am frankly amazed that anyone nowadays managed to survive the school playground where teasing, bumps and bruises were a rite of passage instead of a felony. No one has a right to not be offended, and bubble-wrapping yourself with legislation and safe havens only make it worse. You will be judged by others in one way or another until the day you die, and some of the more infamous people will be judged long after that. Get used to it.

Fat-shaming? “You guys, I know I'm hefty, but you need to accept me for who I am.”

Bullshit- run your chubby ass around the block a couple of times a day. You'll feel better in the long term and maybe even regain a little of that self-esteem you keep whining about everyone stealing from you. If you consciously identified your problem, you have the ability to find a way to fix it. Face it- modern society is superficial, but imposing your will on those who point out that you look like a half-chewed milk-dud isn't going to solve the problem at hand either. This may come as a shock to some, but you actually have to stand on your own and work towards your own betterment. Get the smelling salts, I heard a couple of people faint in the background.

One of the biggest problems I see in society today is a complete lack of motivation and self-discipline. Where there's a will, there's a way-- the problem is everyone expecting someone else to do it for them, or appealing to a higher authority to insulate them from the harsh reality of life.

Back when I went to boot camp, we had a borderline pork-chop in my platoon who barely made the cut to be enlisted, and he tried using excuses similar to things I have heard here. After a boot in his ass, a proper diet and some self-motivation, he lost 142 lbs. in 3 months (a lead-series record at the time) and was commended for his dedication. It was a damn hard road for him, but he hardened up and made himself do it. I had respect for him- no matter what, he wouldn't quit. Know where he is now? After his discharge, he wanted to help others do the same, and now owns a fitness center.

He is but one example. If he could do it, it stands to reason others can too. Do you really want it, or are you more comfortable sitting around bitching about it?

Fat-shaming? Sorry, I ran out of pity a long time ago.

I agree with your post. It is spot on.

[Barboneia]

This thread reminded me that I need to start going to the school's gym when it opens up.

[Uxupox]

Are people really discussing the kid show He-Man as some kind of masculinity power trip that was devised by the patriarchy? Really?

I'm pretty sure nobody has said the word "patriarchy" so I don't know where you got that from.

One can assume since most the people who think He-man is the epitome of masculinity and a plot devised by the patriarch as said in the book called "Subverting Masculinity".

[Blackwall]

The very concept of "privilege" and "shaming"is infantile. Nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings, people should not be expected to change their way of life and speech in order to accommodate oversensitive adult babies. I don't have anything against fat people, but nor do i think that they need to be handled with kid gloves. Everyone has flaws and undesirable qualities, and some people are gonna pick up on those and use them against you, it's part of life.

Being thin isn't "privilege". While there may be a genetic component to some people's predisposition to obesity, it is still something that somebody does to themselves through their lifestyle. People are fat either because they value food and comfort more than appearance and health (which is a valid choice if that's what they want), or they are fat because they don't have the discipline to overcome their tendencies, which isn't something to hate somebody for but it also isn't to be admired.

PC culture is currently out of control. this has happened before, and i can only hope it dies out again, because it is bad for society and free discourse.

[Novus America]

Life was so much simpler before everyone got convinced that you need to go to university and pay them vast amounts to become a bigger pansy.

All of these “shaming” problems over every little thing just goes to show you how pathetic people have really become. I am frankly amazed that anyone nowadays managed to survive the school playground where teasing, bumps and bruises were a rite of passage instead of a felony. No one has a right to not be offended, and bubble-wrapping yourself with legislation and safe havens only make it worse. You will be judged by others in one way or another until the day you die, and some of the more infamous people will be judged long after that. Get used to it.

Fat-shaming? “You guys, I know I'm hefty, but you need to accept me for who I am.”

Bullshit- run your chubby ass around the block a couple of times a day. You'll feel better in the long term and maybe even regain a little of that self-esteem you keep whining about everyone stealing from you. If you consciously identified your problem, you have the ability to find a way to fix it. Face it- modern society is superficial, but imposing your will on those who point out that you look like a half-chewed milk-dud isn't going to solve the problem at hand either. This may come as a shock to some, but you actually have to stand on your own and work towards your own betterment. Get the smelling salts, I heard a couple of people faint in the background.

One of the biggest problems I see in society today is a complete lack of motivation and self-discipline. Where there's a will, there's a way-- the problem is everyone expecting someone else to do it for them, or appealing to a higher authority to insulate them from the harsh reality of life.

Back when I went to boot camp, we had a borderline pork-chop in my platoon who barely made the cut to be enlisted, and he tried using excuses similar to things I have heard here. After a boot in his ass, a proper diet and some self-motivation, he lost 142 lbs. in 3 months (a lead-series record at the time) and was commended for his dedication. It was a damn hard road for him, but he hardened up and made himself do it. I had respect for him- no matter what, he wouldn't quit. Know where he is now? After his discharge, he wanted to help others do the same, and now owns a fitness center.

He is but one example. If he could do it, it stands to reason others can too. Do you really want it, or are you more comfortable sitting around bitching about it?

Fat-shaming? Sorry, I ran out of pity a long time ago.

I love me some old-fashioned machismo and condescension in the afternoon.

A little old fashioned machismo, (in moderation) is not a bad thing. Being physically strong is objectively better than being physically weak. Being in good shape better than being in bad shape. Now physical condition should not be the only important thing. But it is important.

[Sareva]

Your signature concerns me.

Why?

Being a dick about something is your natural right, afterall. In America, you are protected under the United States Constitution's First Amendment, which says explicitly "...freedom of speech..." and in my opinion, you can be a dick if you want to be, just know ahead of time that I can inform you about your dickishness. It is your Constitutional right to be a bigoted moronic dumbass, but everyone else has the same right to let you know that you are said bigoted moronic dumbass and that your opinion is stupid.

Did I say that people don't have the right to be a dick?

No, I did not.

I said you can encourage healthy lifestyles without being a dick about it. In other words, that it is not necessary to be a dick. I did not that that it wasn't allowed.

1. Not going to go into details, but I would like to talk to you about everyday matters, see your personal opinions on world affairs, as well as find out about how you feel about things society does as whole.

Without you and I getting in a debate for stupid reasons.

2. You are correct, since you are the one that made the original statement. However, if a doctor needs to be a dick to tell me if I don't eat more food (which is a serious problem for myself, I am underweight for my height and age.), I am going to die, I think I can understand his reason for doing so.

[New Chalcedon]

If obesity is part of one's genetic makeup, then why wasn't it an issue a century ago?

For the same reason that many other medical problems weren't "issues" a century ago:

- Lesser understanding of medicine and genetics;
- Less access to calories in general and meats/fats in particular;
- Vastly more physically-active employment.

It's not the sole factor, but genetics has been scientifically established as a factor in body shape - in determining what shape your body will take, given a set diet/activity routine. Obesity is the result of an interplay between three factors - behavioural, dietary and genetic.

The precise weighting of each factor isn't known (and personally, I suspect it varies from individual to individual), but even the most stringent of studies has found it to be a factor, mostly in determining how much weight someone will put on under 'favourable' (for weight-gain) conditions. Further, there is evidence (though not proof positive) that human evolution actually selected for genetics that enabled the body to pile on weight - in an environment with a highly-variable food supply, the ability to store excess calories long-term efficiently is an evolutionary advantage.

If you're interested in learning more about the genetics of obesity, I personally recommend the article in Epidomelogic Reviews by Yang, Kelly and He (2007), which is a decent overview of the contemporary understanding of it. Short version: Estimates vary widely by many factors, but tend to center around 50% genetic linkage - i.e., genetics can explain around 50% of a person's weight gain under set circumstances.

But of course, you're not interested in learning - you've got a good old-fashioned pep talk in mind.

Get real, obesity is caused by poor dietary choices and a lack of exercise. Just as I'd tell someone to stop chain smoking, I'd tell someone to stop binge eating junk food.

Speaking as someone who eats "junk food" (in the most generous plausible meaning of the term - any take-away meals or processed snacks) perhaps twice a week but still has trouble keeping the kilos off, kindly take your ignorant, over-generalistic approach to medical issues and shove it.

And yes, I do exercise daily.

If you're so insecure about your body image that you need to accuse others of shaming you, well, then thats really a wake up call, now isn't it? If you're fat, whatever, I don't care, but the healthy thing to do would be to get fit.

Alternatively, I could feel fat-shamed because of the ignorant yobbos who wind down their window as they drive past to shout derogatory epithets at me. Just saying.

[New Chalcedon]

I love me some old-fashioned machismo and condescension in the afternoon.

A little old fashioned machismo, (in moderation) is not a bad thing. Being physically strong is objectively better than being physically weak. Being in good shape better than being in bad shape. Now physical condition should not be the only important thing. But it is important.

Sure it is. But machismo goes far, far beyond physical condition - and the fact is that it's a damn poor way to approach complex issues. Like obesity, which has many causes, not all of which have anything to do with choices made by the person involved.

[Liriena]

I'm pretty sure nobody has said the word "patriarchy" so I don't know where you got that from.

One can assume since most the people who think He-man is the epitome of masculinity and a plot devised by the patriarch as said in the book called "Subverting Masculinity".

So... you're just making prejudiced assumptions.

Okay. That's fine.

[Blackwall]

A little old fashioned machismo, (in moderation) is not a bad thing. Being physically strong is objectively better than being physically weak. Being in good shape better than being in bad shape. Now physical condition should not be the only important thing. But it is important.

Sure it is. But machismo goes far, far beyond physical condition - and the fact is that it's a damn poor way to approach complex issues. Like obesity, which has many causes, not all of which have anything to do with choices made by the person involved.

We aren't talking about the causes of obesity per se, we are talking about "fat shaming" in particular, a discussion in which the causes of obesity are a relevant but secondary matter. The thing is, it's *not* a "complex issue". It is very simple, like all of the "shaming" and "privilege" issues. The truth is that nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings. Nobody is under any obligation to care about my feelings either, but the difference between us is that I'm not asking or expecting anyone to.

It's up to each of us to value our own lives as best we can, and look out for the people that are actually in our lives that we care about. We don't have to be nice to everyone.

[Jello Biafra]

PC culture is currently out of control. this has happened before, and i can only hope it dies out again, because it is bad for society and free discourse.

So fat shaming is an example of free discourse, but telling someone they're an asshole for fat shaming is...not an example of free discourse?

The truth is that nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings.

There are instances where this is objectively false. Should these laws be repealed?

[Liriena]

The very concept of "privilege" and "shaming"is infantile. Nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings, people should not be expected to change their way of life and speech in order to accommodate oversensitive adult babies. I don't have anything against fat people, but nor do i think that they need to be handled with kid gloves. Everyone has flaws and undesirable qualities, and some people are gonna pick up on those and use them against you, it's part of life.

Being thin isn't "privilege". While there may be a genetic component to some people's predisposition to obesity, it is still something that somebody does to themselves through their lifestyle. People are fat either because they value food and comfort more than appearance and health (which is a valid choice if that's what they want), or they are fat because they don't have the discipline to overcome their tendencies, which isn't something to hate somebody for but it also isn't to be admired.

PC culture is currently out of control. this has happened before, and i can only hope it dies out again, because it is bad for society and free discourse.

A bit clichéd overall... but there is one aspect in particular I want to address:

Everyone has flaws and undesirable qualities, and some people are gonna pick up on those and use them against you, it's part of life.

Yes, it's "part of life". But should it be? Does it have to be? Can we not even consider the possibility of changing things?

[Hoppetopia]

If obesity is part of one's genetic makeup, then why wasn't it an issue a century ago?

For the same reason that many other medical problems weren't "issues" a century ago:

- Lesser understanding of medicine and genetics;
- Less access to calories in general and meats/fats in particular;
- Vastly more physically-active employment.

The problem with the first is that if it were true, there would still have been as many obese people as nowadays, but that wasn't the case. People with mental health issues can fall under the radar, or those with diseases that aren't easily detectable. But obesity? Missing that someone is obese is kind of hard. So it's not like they weren't detected, either. There really weren't as many obese people.

The problem with the latter two is that they really just reinforce what we've said this entire thread: That being fat or thin is a matter of calories in, calories out. That this was easier a century ago is irrelevant, the genetics-hypothesis is still disproven.

[Liriena]

Why?


Did I say that people don't have the right to be a dick?

No, I did not.

I said you can encourage healthy lifestyles without being a dick about it. In other words, that it is not necessary to be a dick. I did not that that it wasn't allowed.

1. Not going to go into details, but I would like to talk to you about everyday matters, see your personal opinions on world affairs, as well as find out about how you feel about things society does as whole.

Without you and I getting in a debate for stupid reasons.

Fair enough.

2. You are correct, since you are the one that made the original statement. However, if a doctor needs to be a dick to tell me if I don't eat more food (which is a serious problem for myself, I am underweight for my height and age.), I am going to die, I think I can understand his reason for doing so.

In that particular case, yes, sure. There is a point past which it can be necessary to be rude in order to help others.

[Montesardo-East Adanzi]

Yes, it's "part of life". But should it be? Does it have to be? Can we not even consider the possibility of changing things?

Your answer is no. Our nature prohibits it. We humans love to nitpick and criticise anything that isn't to our liking, is this not true?

[New Chalcedon]

Yes, it's "part of life". But should it be? Does it have to be? Can we not even consider the possibility of changing things?

Your answer is no. Our nature prohibits it. We humans love to nitpick and criticise anything that isn't to our liking, is this not true?

Two hundred years ago, we'd have said that "our nature" precluded females living independently of males, or exercising the same rights and privileges.

"Human nature" is all too often used as an excuse not to look at the grubber parts of our society's traditions and habits.

[Blackwall]

PC culture is currently out of control. this has happened before, and i can only hope it dies out again, because it is bad for society and free discourse.

So fat shaming is an example of free discourse, but telling someone they're an asshole for fat shaming is...not an example of free discourse?

"Fat shaming" is nonsense. Calling someone an asshole is also nonsense, and neither one is discourse. PC culture affects actual dicscourse by making topics "taboo" or "off-limits" and trying to force emotional sensitivity on issues that should be objective. This is the harm I'm talking about. I believe there is *potential* value in all speech, and to limit it for the sake of somebody's emotional feelings is the true outrage. We don't have some right not to be offended.

[Hoppetopia]

The truth is that nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings.

There are instances where this is objectively false. Should these laws be repealed?

Yes.

[Avalon]

I know women are "required" to look sexy in most situations and I understand men are under "less" social pressure (talking about appearance).

But men are definitely receiving the message that they are more attractive if they are ripped. That's so very obvious I shouldn't have to say it, denying that is ridiculous.

We are getting closer to equality but we are not doing it by getting rid of the pressure on women but by adding up pressure on men, that's not a good thing to do, and that's going to make both parts more aggressive towards each other.

Now, back on topic, if we're talking about people with a normal BMI, but on the "chubby" end of the spectrum, who are still called "fat" then of course I will say that's wrong, they're still healthy and shouldn't be shamed (no one should), beauty standards are kind of wrong if healthy people is generally not considered beautiful. But if we're talking people way over their BMI then, well genes by themselves don't get them fat, they eat more calories than they burn off. That's indisputable. If we change beauty standards we should aim for healthy features, and being "heavier" than your BMI is not. Promoting tolerance is one thing, promoting attraction to an obviously unhealthy look and way of life it's just not the intelligent thing to do.

[Montesardo-East Adanzi]

Your answer is no. Our nature prohibits it. We humans love to nitpick and criticise anything that isn't to our liking, is this not true?

Two hundred years ago, we'd have said that "our nature" precluded females living independently of males, or exercising the same rights and privileges.

"Human nature" is all too often used as an excuse not to look at the grubber parts of our society's traditions and habits.

Regardless, this aspect has not changed at all. We still criticise, attack and even cause wars over disagreements. To think we'll just automatically become accepting of things will not change. Not to mention that our ability to nitpick is also a double bladed sword. It both serves for good as it does bad.

[Liriena]

The truth is that nobody is under any obligation to care about your feelings.

True, but if we want to have a functional society where everyone has a fair change of having a happy life, we can't just passively accept awfulness. We can't just allow potentially psychologically damaging parts of our social interactions to go uncriticized.

And as for feelings... Being insulted by just one random stranger in a vacuum is one thing. You can easily brush it off. It doesn't have to be a life-changing experience that will emotionally scar you for life. But when being insulted over one particular aspect of you becomes a constant in your life, and one that the vast majority of society has passively accepted and thus sees nothing wrong with, it is almost inevitable that it's going to have far more profound and harmful consequences than a mild annoyance and temporarily hurt feelings. And that is not a minor thing. If your self-esteem is low enough, you can end up in a pretty dark and dangerous place, mentally speaking.

[Novus America]

A little old fashioned machismo, (in moderation) is not a bad thing. Being physically strong is objectively better than being physically weak. Being in good shape better than being in bad shape. Now physical condition should not be the only important thing. But it is important.

Sure it is. But machismo goes far, far beyond physical condition - and the fact is that it's a damn poor way to approach complex issues. Like obesity, which has many causes, not all of which have anything to do with choices made by the person involved.

Well which is why I said a little machismo in moderation. Obviously it should not be the sole way of approaching issues. Not that it was beyond Germany in the Roman era.

Well obesity really comes down to simple physics. If you eat less calories than you use you lose weight. Now why some people burn more than others is complex, but ultimately you chose how many calories you take in.

Yes some people will be able to eat more than others and stay healthy but that is how it is. You can always chose to eat less.

Now I am talking of being healthy. Too thin is not healthy. Obese is not healthy either. Being obese is objectively bad. It is just cold hard fact. Now nobody is perfect, but people should expect to have their flaws pointed out. And should seek too correct them as best they can.

Which is why I hate people saying you should be satisfied with who you are. You should never be satisfied with who you are. You should not hate yourself for your flaws. But you should acknowledge them and do what you can to improve.

[Liriena]

Yes, it's "part of life". But should it be? Does it have to be? Can we not even consider the possibility of changing things?

Your answer is no. Our nature prohibits it. We humans love to nitpick and criticise anything that isn't to our liking, is this not true?

But is it really "nature"?