Right Wing Discussion Thread The Fourth

[Geilinor]

lolwut

To be fair, he is correct about the stigmatisation of 'white power' opposed to 'black power'.

He's incorrect about the acceptance of black people stating their preference to associate only with other blacks. Where in the world does that idea come from?

[United Marxist Nations]

It's about how white people have to act differently from other races in their self-identification.

Obviously, yes.

The most glaring example is that there is no particular stigma to being attached to self-described Black Power groups and openly stating your prefer to associate only with other blacks. For non-white minorities a desire to associate with your own never carries any stigma, and is often facilitated by officialdom. The treatment of whites and non-whites is not even remotely symmetrical (the term "asymmetric multiculturalism" exists in Social Science literature for a reason), especially in English speaking democracies.

As Slate informs:

In his highly inventive 2004 book The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America, the sociologist Eric Kaufmann calls this bargain “asymmetrical multiculturalism.” Under asymmetrical multiculturalism, minority ethnic groups are encouraged to assert their group identities and to defend their group interests while the majority ethnic group is strongly discouraged from doing the same. Overt expressions of Jewish, Mexican, Laotian, or Bengali pride are very welcome. Overt expressions of WASP pride, however, are not. Kaufmann maintains that because WASPs, and to a lesser extent other whites, are denied the option of celebrating their ethnic heritage, they instead champion essentially ideological ideas, like individualism or a vague, ill-defined belief in “American exceptionalism” that is bereft of any real cultural content.

One problem I see is that there's frankly no "white" identity.

As for Black Power groups, it's mainly because such groups are little known. I think if most people knew how kooky the Nation of Islam is, there would be a massive stigma against it.

[Minzerland II]

To be fair, he is correct about the stigmatisation of 'white power' opposed to 'black power'.

He's incorrect about the acceptance of black people stating their preference to associate only with other blacks. Where in the world does that idea come from?

Yes, I agree. I have no idea.

[Conserative Morality]

One problem I see is that there's frankly no "white" identity.

Hell, the only reason there's a 'black' identity is because early racists couldn't be bothered to differentiate between groups of nonwhite people.

As for Black Power groups, it's mainly because such groups are little known. I think if most people knew how kooky the Nation of Islam was, there would be a massive stigma against it.

Oh, please. It's a well-known fact the mad genetic scientist Yakub created the race of white devils.

[Nusaresa]

Y'all looking at race at a too American-centric point of view. No white identity my bloody ass.

Look at Europe, would you not call that various types of white identity? Multitudes of culture. Same with black identity, look from west africa to east Africa. Multitudes of it.

Edit: Don't make me pull a text block that I have saved on this 'American-centric' view of race and race relations

[United Marxist Nations]

One problem I see is that there's frankly no "white" identity.

Hell, the only reason there's a 'black' identity is because early racists couldn't be bothered to differentiate between groups of nonwhite people.

As for Black Power groups, it's mainly because such groups are little known. I think if most people knew how kooky the Nation of Islam was, there would be a massive stigma against it.

Oh, please. It's a well-known fact the mad genetic scientist Yakub created the race of white devils.

MAYNE SHIT, WE WUZ KINS

It's a shame that, instead of promoting relevant histories, we have allowed charlatans to create false identities for the black community. This is why there should have been a migratory movement to settle the country's blacks in one or two states after the Civil War. We could have avoided all that Jim Crow nonsense and had a black community with a proper ideological identity and better representation.

[Neanderthaland]

Obviously, yes.

The most glaring example is that there is no particular stigma to being attached to self-described Black Power groups and openly stating your prefer to associate only with other blacks. For non-white minorities a desire to associate with your own never carries any stigma, and is often facilitated by officialdom. The treatment of whites and non-whites is not even remotely symmetrical (the term "asymmetric multiculturalism" exists in Social Science literature for a reason), especially in English speaking democracies.

As Slate informs:

One problem I see is that there's frankly no "white" identity.

As for Black Power groups, it's mainly because such groups are little known. I think if most people knew how kooky the Nation of Islam is, there would be a massive stigma against it.

Oh my yes.

Just as an aside, there is a prominent warning displayed in a local Mosque in my area telling the (mostly Somali) adherents not to associate with the NOI on the grounds that they are (paraphrased) "out of their fucking minds."

You know a Muslim themed Black organization is a little out there when Black Muslims are saying "you know... we should avoid this."

[Conscentia]

Why do you want me to define "alt-right" if you're not disputing that judgement?
Race realism is the (mistaken) belief that the human species is naturally divided into discrete biological categories called "races". It's synonymous with "racialism". The terms "racialist" and "race realist" are often used by racists who wish to distance themselves from the stigma of being a "racist".

Well, ancestry isn't entirely irrelevant, nor entirely uncorrelated, but in terms of things that can actually be proved and aren't massively confounded (for instance, by socioeconomic and cultural differences), it's stuff like lactase persistence, vitamin D isomers, that sort of thing.

I didn't say that ancestry was irrelevant. Human variation is distributed across clines with the alleles responsible for that variation being distributed independently and having different but overlapping ranges. Human variation is not distributed across discrete sub-species or "races". Simply put, "races" are very crude oversimplifications at best.

[United Marxist Nations]

Y'all looking at race at a too American-centric point of view. No white identity my bloody ass.

Look at Europe, would you not call that various types of white identity? Multitudes of culture. Same with black identity, look from west africa to east Africa. Multitudes of it.

No, I would call those various national identities. And American Blacks generally have little in-common with each other from different economic strata, let alone with African Blacks. Hell, Liberia fought a civil war because American Blacks were encroaching on African Blacks.

[The Kievan People]

Yeah, that was the exact opposite of clarification. I've even more confused about where you get your information from now.

How is that unclear? A public school for blacks, teaching about black subjects, with the stated aim of fostering pride in their heritage and countering the alienation they allegedly experience in normal public schools. Because those schools aren't black enough.

We have two actually in Ontario. One primary, one high school.

[Conserative Morality]

Y'all looking at race at a too American-centric point of view. No white identity my bloody ass.

Look at Europe, would you not call that various types of white identity? Multitudes of culture. Same with black identity, look from west africa to east Africa. Multitudes of it.

Edit: Don't make me pull a text block that I have saved on this 'American-centric' view of race and race relations

White identities /=/ white identity.

"White ethnicities have individual identities" /=/ "There is a coherent identity for the white population"

[Nusaresa]

Y'all looking at race at a too American-centric point of view. No white identity my bloody ass.

Look at Europe, would you not call that various types of white identity? Multitudes of culture. Same with black identity, look from west africa to east Africa. Multitudes of it.

No, I would call those various national identities. And American Blacks generally have little in-common with each other from different economic strata, let alone with African Blacks. Hell, Liberia fought a civil war because American Blacks were encroaching on African Blacks.

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

As for Africa, on a non national level there is a wide diversity of cultures and languages. Colonization fucked that a lil bit though. Liberia is a special case.

[Dagashi Shojo]

One problem I see is that there's frankly no "white" identity.

Hell, the only reason there's a 'black' identity is because early racists couldn't be bothered to differentiate between groups of nonwhite people.

Couldn't one argue that African Americans are themselves an ethnic group with shared culture, experiences, and descent?

[Minzerland II]

Y'all looking at race at a too American-centric point of view. No white identity my bloody ass.

Look at Europe, would you not call that various types of white identity? Multitudes of culture. Same with black identity, look from west africa to east Africa. Multitudes of it.

No, I would call those various national identities. And American Blacks generally have little in-common with each other from different economic strata, let alone with African Blacks. Hell, Liberia fought a civil war because American Blacks were encroaching on African Blacks.

Wouldn't ethnic identity be more accurate as opposed to national identity in this case?

[United Marxist Nations]

No, I would call those various national identities. And American Blacks generally have little in-common with each other from different economic strata, let alone with African Blacks. Hell, Liberia fought a civil war because American Blacks were encroaching on African Blacks.

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

As for Africa, on a non national level there is a wide diversity of cultures and languages. Colonization fucked that a lil bit though. Liberia is a special case.

I would support celebrating that culture, if it mattered for more than a minority of people (e.g. the Orthodox emigres still celebrate their culture, as do many from Asian countries) had any relation to the home country in terms of culture. There is no central identity to White Americans, and I don't support creating one, because I support a proletarian identity above everything. I support a black community because they actually do have a shared history and culture.

[Nusaresa]

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

As for Africa, on a non national level there is a wide diversity of cultures and languages. Colonization fucked that a lil bit though. Liberia is a special case.

I would support celebrating that culture, if it mattered for more than a minority of people (e.g. the Orthodox emigres still celebrate their culture, as do many from Asian countries) had any relation to the home country in terms of culture. There is no central identity to White Americans, and I don't support creating one, because I support a proletarian identity above everything. I support a black community because they actually do have a shared history and culture.

Oh cool.

kk im gonna step back from the race stuff for now because i usually end up something stupid

[Conserative Morality]

Couldn't one argue that African Americans are themselves an ethnic group with shared culture, experiences, and descent?

Yeah, but the only reason for that is because, again, early racists couldn't bother to differentiate between black ethnicities.

[Conserative Morality]

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

We do, largely.

[Nusaresa]

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

We do, largely.

Other than the Irish and those of Eastern European heritage, doesn't seem like much to me.

[Geilinor]

We do, largely.

Other than the Irish and those of Eastern European heritage, doesn't seem like much to me.

Many white people don't identify much with Europe. Others do, it depends on how recently their ancestors arrived and how much they care about their family history.

[Neanderthaland]

We do, largely.

Other than the Irish and those of Eastern European heritage, doesn't seem like much to me.

There's a Sons of Norway building a mile from my apartment.

[Zoo Trouble]

What is RWDTs opinion on the Creativity Movement?

Myself, I am a registered member.

lol white people

Amen sister.

[The Kievan People]

These national identities (in Europe's case) were to a certain degree shaped by the cultural identities enforced by nationalists of that time. Furthermore many Americans (white Americans) have said roots in various European cultures, why not celebrate them instead of clinging to this 'white identity' that holds no real basis other than as a response to 'Black Power' groups?

Finding white Americans is fairly trivial. Especially when they leave America. So it's not clear how such an easily identifiable group "has no real basis" for forming an identity. It's much easier to identify a white American as an American than it is to separate a German American from an Irish American.

[New confederate ramenia]

http://awdnews.com/top-news/ex-cia-agen ... yugoslavia
wtf i hate our government now

[The New Sea Territory]

As for Black Power groups, it's mainly because such groups are little known. I think if most people knew how kooky the Nation of Islam is, there would be a massive stigma against it.

The Nation of Islam was very influential, but did not have a monopoly on Black Power.

Black Power was pretty popular in Vietnam, IIRC.