What does 9/11/01 mean to you?

[Master Shake]

Thermite. Tower 7 and Minoru Yamasaki designed the world trade center to withstand a direct impact from a 707. Also, GPS guided planes.

[Bhikkustan]

I think the twin towers shot first.

[Merni]

Something really terrible that happened thousands of miles away fifteen years ago, and which everyone's still talking about. Also they've got the date wrong. Unless it happened on 9 November, but I always thought it was 11 September.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Something really terrible that happened thousands of miles away fifteen years ago, and which everyone's still talking about. Also they've got the date wrong. Unless it happened on 9 November, but I always thought it was 11 September.

Yes. As you're likely aware, in America, we arrange the date and month differently. Nobody currently alive had anything to do with it, but it would be more trouble than it's worth to try to change it now, and most people seem to accept it as nothing more than a national quirk. But please do go ahead, as we simply love it when people make jokes about it, especially in relation to remembering one of the most horrifying days in our history.

[The Archregimancy]

Not my country, not my people, not my fate. I don't care.

11 September casualties by nationality, with two countries bolded for your personal delectation and delight:

United States 2,605
United Kingdom 67
Dominican Republic 47
India 41
South Korea 28
Canada 24
Japan 24
Colombia 18
Jamaica 16
Philippines 16
Mexico 15
Trinidad and Tobago 14
Ecuador 13
Australia 11
Germany 11
Italy 10
Bangladesh 6
Ireland 6
Pakistan 6
Poland 6
Israel 5
Peru 5
Portugal 5
Argentina 4
France 4
Lebanon 4
Romania 4
Brazil 3
Ethiopia 3
Guyana 3
Malaysia 3
Bermuda 2
China 2
D.R. Congo 2
El Salvador 2
FR Yugoslavia 2
Ghana 2
Haiti 2
Hong Kong 2
Jordan 2
New Zealand 2
Paraguay 2
South Africa 2
Sweden 2
Switzerland 2
Belarus 1
Belgium 1
Chile 1
Honduras 1
Indonesia 1
Ivory Coast 1
Kenya 1
Lithuania 1
Moldova 1
Netherlands 1
Nigeria 1
Russia 1
Spain 1
Taiwan 1
Ukraine 1
Uzbekistan 1
Venezuela 1

[Free Rhenish States]

Not my country, not my people, not my fate. I don't care.

11 September casualties by nationality, with two countries bolded for your personal delectation and delight:

United States 2,605
United Kingdom 67
Dominican Republic 47
India 41
South Korea 28
Canada 24
Japan 24
Colombia 18
Jamaica 16
Philippines 16
Mexico 15
Trinidad and Tobago 14
Ecuador 13
Australia 11
Germany 11
Italy 10
Bangladesh 6
Ireland 6
Pakistan 6
Poland 6
Israel 5
Peru 5
Portugal 5
Argentina 4
France 4
Lebanon 4
Romania 4
Brazil 3
Ethiopia 3
Guyana 3
Malaysia 3
Bermuda 2
China 2
D.R. Congo 2
El Salvador 2
FR Yugoslavia 2
Ghana 2
Haiti 2
Hong Kong 2
Jordan 2
New Zealand 2
Paraguay 2
South Africa 2
Sweden 2
Switzerland 2
Belarus 1
Belgium 1
Chile 1
Honduras 1
Indonesia 1
Ivory Coast 1
Kenya 1
Lithuania 1
Moldova 1
Netherlands 1
Nigeria 1
Russia 1
Spain 1
Taiwan 1
Ukraine 1
Uzbekistan 1
Venezuela 1

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither a German/Russian citizen, nor am I ethnically Russian/German. My country is not on the list.

[Mattopilos]

Not my country, not my people, not my fate. I don't care.

11 September casualties by nationality, with two countries bolded for your personal delectation and delight:

-snip-

Even if he was of those countries (he isn't), that is nothing compared to US deaths, negligible even.

[Alvecia]

11 September casualties by nationality, with two countries bolded for your personal delectation and delight:

-snip-

Even if he was of those countries (he isn't), that is nothing compared to US deaths, negligible even.

While somewhat technically true, it's in poor taste to reduce the impact of their deaths so.

[Mattopilos]

Even if he was of those countries (he isn't), that is nothing compared to US deaths, negligible even.

While somewhat technically true, it's in poor taste to reduce the impact of their deaths so.

Death is bad, I know, and you can have your opinion of your 'taste' on it. But statistically, it is true, not matter what angle you look at it from. For the person to try and use that argument (and fail, mind you, to guess his country of origin) isn't making any serious points other than "guess what? you had 11 deaths! That must piss you off!", all while ignoring the 4 digit American deaths.

[Thermodolia]

Thermite. Tower 7 and Minoru Yamasaki designed the world trade center to withstand a direct impact from a 707. Also, GPS guided planes.

One problem with that. A 707 didn't hit the towers a 757 did

[Alvecia]

Thermite. Tower 7 and Minoru Yamasaki designed the world trade center to withstand a direct impact from a 707. Also, GPS guided planes.

One problem with that. A 707 didn't hit the towers a 757 did

50 arbitrary units of plane more than it could withstand

[The Archregimancy]

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither a German/Russian citizen, nor am I ethnically Russian/German. My country is not on the list.

I thought you were an ethnic Russian; my mistake. I knew you weren't ethnically German.

No, Kazakhstan (correct?) isn't on the list, but as a native Russian speaker (correct?) resident in Germany (correct?), nor are you wholly divorced from the broader circumstances.

John Donne had something pertinent to say there.


Edit:

But statistically, it is true, not matter what angle you look at it from. For the person to try and use that argument (and fail, mind you, to guess his country of origin) isn't making any serious points other than "guess what? you had 11 deaths! That must piss you off!", all while ignoring the 4 digit American deaths.

I believe I know his country of origin and his country of residence (as outlined above); it's his ethnicity I was clearly wholly mistaken about, which I've acknowledged.

But either way, you've missed the point of my argument.

It's not an argument that he must be 'pissed off' about the circumstances of the 9/11 terrorist attacks because a country he lives (or has lived) in lost people in the attacks. Nor is it an attempt to claim that German or Russian deaths are somehow equal in their overall tragedy to the far greater casualties suffered by American citizens. I never made any such argument.

It's instead a counter to the attempt to claim that he's wholly divorced from the circumstances so need not care at all.

Again, as John Donne noted, 'No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.'

And if nationality/residence/ethnicity isn't an adequate argument here, perhaps I would have had more luck if I'd counted the number of (non-terrorist) Muslims who died on 9/11.

[Jumhuriyah Hindustan]

One problem with that. A 707 didn't hit the towers a 757 did

50 arbitrary units of plane more than it could withstand

This is sig-worthy.

[Free Rhenish States]

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither a German/Russian citizen, nor am I ethnically Russian/German. My country is not on the list.

I thought you were an ethnic Russian; my mistake. I knew you weren't ethnically German.

No, Kazakhstan (correct?) isn't on the list, but as a native Russian speaker (correct?) resident in Germany (correct?), nor are you wholly divorced from the broader circumstances.

John Donne had something pertinent to say there.

I was born in Kazakhstan and I am native Russian speaker, but that doesn't make me Russian, I speak fluent German, but I don't reside in Germany. I suggest you give up attempting to convince me that a terrorist act commited 11000 kms away from me, aimed at a country I don't care about, hurting people that are not mine, possibly pertains to me in any way. It is just illogical.

Again, as John Donne noted, 'No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.'

I presume that given the fact that "John Donne had something pertinent to say there." part is included in your quote directed to me, I have to reply at that as well.
Let's be honest, moderator. This statement coming from you nothin other than an utmost hipocrisy, while implying that the whole world should regret 9/11, you are forgetting that the fact that Americans, don't care a straw about the other world, and this is perfectly normal. There are no Europeans, Americans, Russians ranting about terrorist acts commited in Africa, Middle-East, China or whatever else the same way as they rant about 9/11 on this forum, and you personally are not an exception, the Chinese, Africans and the Middle-Easterners, on the other hand, absolutely don't care about America. So why should I make a big deal out of 9/11? Because Americans want it? Because Americans believe their country to be the greatest? Sorry, it ain't gonna work that way.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I was in my early teens at the time and as it didn't directly impact me my reaction was pretty much indifference combined with trying to mine it for inappropriate humour. It's obviously influenced my views to some degree because the subsequent events are part of the political context I grew up in. I used to be an idealistic open-borders sort growing up but now believe in controlled borders and tightly managed immigration. Awareness of the terror threat has something to do with that, but to be honest it's more about protecting liberal social values and culture from conservative and fundamentalist religiosity.

[The Archregimancy]

I was born in Kazakhstan and I am native Russian speaker, but that doesn't make me Russian, I speak fluent German, but I don't reside in Germany. I suggest you give up attempting to convince me that a terrorist act commited 11000 kms away from me, aimed at a country I don't care about, hurting people that are not mine, possibly pertains to me in any way. It is just illogical.

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. I shan't attempt to convince you further.

But you are wrong about me as well, for what it's worth. I spent several years living in the Middle East, and am about to take up a position working with the British Red Cross where supporting the organisation's advocacy on treating Middle Eastern refugees with fairness, respect, and dignity will be an early priority of mine. I can therefore assure you I feel far more strongly about the current impact of ongoing terrorism and conflict in the Middle East than I do about the events in New York 15 years ago.

So I promise I won't go around pre-judging you anymore if you similarly promise not to pre-judge me.

[Free Rhenish States]

I was born in Kazakhstan and I am native Russian speaker, but that doesn't make me Russian, I speak fluent German, but I don't reside in Germany. I suggest you give up attempting to convince me that a terrorist act commited 11000 kms away from me, aimed at a country I don't care about, hurting people that are not mine, possibly pertains to me in any way. It is just illogical.

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. I shan't attempt to convince you further.

I sincerely apologize for being rude, but these were just the words that needed to be said.

But you are wrong about me as well, for what it's worth. I spent several years living in the Middle East, and am about to take up a position working with the British Red Cross where supporting the organisation's advocacy on treating Middle Eastern refugees with fairness, respect, and dignity will be an early priority of mine. I can therefore assure you I feel far more strongly about the current impact of ongoing terrorism and conflict in the Middle East than I do about the events in New York 15 years ago.

So I promise I won't go around pre-judging you anymore if you similarly promise not to pre-judge me.

Deal. I promise you to never pre-judge you. Should I break my promise, remind me of this post harshly.

[Radiatia]

It means 9th of November 2001.

[Crurnlark]

Its what really highlighted to me as a non American how far the US government and its Pentagon attack dog were willing to go to decieve the American public and committ horrific false flag operations for the sake of justifying a creeping police state and foreign war, Bush just took a page from how America justified the Spanish American war, and that greed disgusts me.

...oh, tell me you're not one of those 'inside job' people?

I'm also a proponent of that idea- not enough to discuss it openly or accept it as the 100% truth, but enough to make me roll my eyes at anyone who insists that there is not even a remote possibility of the attacks being orchestrated, or provoked, or purposely not prevented, or somehow otherwise influenced the 9/11 attacks.

[Mattopilos]

...oh, tell me you're not one of those 'inside job' people?

I'm also a proponent of that idea- not enough to discuss it openly or accept it as the 100% truth, but enough to make me roll my eyes at anyone who insists that there is not even a remote possibility of the attacks being orchestrated, or provoked, or purposely not prevented, or somehow otherwise influenced the 9/11 attacks.

I don't see how there is anything to suggest there is. However, I do agree that 'Murica didn't waste the opportunity to start wars by calling foul.

[Crurnlark]

I don't see how there is anything to suggest there is. However, I do agree that 'Murica didn't waste the opportunity to start wars by calling foul.

I don't see anything apart from motive to believe that either, it just seems a bit presumptive to not even consider it a possibility.

Killed by terrorists, killed by Americans, the victims of 9/11 are just as dead. I just wish those deaths hadn't led to so, so much more death.

[Need a Name]

...oh, tell me you're not one of those 'inside job' people?

I'm also a proponent of that idea- not enough to discuss it openly or accept it as the 100% truth, but enough to make me roll my eyes at anyone who insists that there is not even a remote possibility of the attacks being orchestrated, or provoked, or purposely not prevented, or somehow otherwise influenced the 9/11 attacks.

Why would Bush/Gov'ment want to waste trillions of dollars in wars the American people hate, throw away tens of thousands of lives, support "allies" that barely tolerate us, get America into even more debt, and cement Bush as one of the most hated presidents in American history? It's just ridiculous. Everyone is worse of because of 9/11. Bush, by all accounts, wanted to focus on domestic policy. Kind of a Republican Bill Clinton.

[Crurnlark]

Why would Bush/Gov'ment want to waste trillions of dollars in wars the American people hate, throw away tens of thousands of lives, support "allies" that barely tolerate us, get America into even more debt, and cement Bush as one of the most hated presidents in American history? It's just ridiculous. Everyone is worse of because of 9/11.

I'd imagine it was an invasion for interests outside his own. He has known ties to oil companies, perhaps he thought he could install friendly regimes that wouldn't be at risk of nationalizing any oil-wells foreign investors built, or intimidate the existing lot of rulers into some sort of trade-based alliance.

[Aelex]

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither a German/Russian citizen, nor am I ethnically Russian/German. My country is not on the list.

Maybe if we include the hijackers in it...

IT'S JUST SARCASM, DON'T HIT ME PLEASE!

[Crurnlark]

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither a German/Russian citizen, nor am I ethnically Russian/German. My country is not on the list.

Maybe if we include the hijackers in it...

IT'S JUST SARCASM, DON'T HIT ME PLEASE!

*bap*

But weren't the attacker's nationalities also represented in Archregimacy's list of casualties?