Is heterosexual hook up culture fuelling rapes on campuses?

[Costa Fierro]

Rape culture against men cannot exist under patriarchy.

Except that the patriarchy doesn't exist and a rape culture does exist against men. Denying it even exists in the first place is reinforcing said rape culture. Saying that someone's experience sexual assault isn't the same as someone else's because they are a man is reinforcing said rape culture.

This is very recent, on a very popular Feminist site

I'm not reading anything that has the word "feminist" in it, because it's always trash.

[Chessmistress]

You really don't know anything about sexual assault in male prisons.

I'm more than ready to discuss about the widespread problem of men raping other men in male prisons.
I just think it's a subset of the rape culture in the whole society, and that such men who are victims are victimised because they're viewed as more feminine.
Hence why prison rapes are a collateral effect of the rape culture in the whole society, that is inherently against women.
Deleting rape culture in the whole society, even rapes within male prisons will cease to exist.

[Costa Fierro]

Deleting rape culture in the whole society, even rapes within male prisons will cease to exist.

You do realise that prison rape is different because it occurs in different circumstances and for different reasons, right?

[Settrah]

You really don't know anything about sexual assault in male prisons.

I'm more than ready to discuss about the widespread problem of men raping other men in male prisons.
I just think it's a subset of the rape culture in the whole society, and that such men who are victims are victimised because they're viewed as more feminine.
Hence why prison rapes are a collateral effect of the rape culture in the whole society, that is inherently against women.
Deleting rape culture in the whole society, even rapes within male prisons will cease to exist.

That's kind of like saying women are rape victims because they were drunk, therefore removing all alcohol from society means that rape will cease to exist.

It won't help. The motivation for male rape in such establishments stem from their own loss of freedom and sense of self-powerlessness. As such, to reclaim that sense of power, overpowering and raping other men provides that satisfaction. It is nothing to do with femininity. You can have prisoners that are as gay as a Christmas tree, but they're not nearly as much of a victim as the shy uncomfortable new inmate, because he is perceived as weak, not feminine.

What you've done is equate femininity with weakness.

That's you doing that.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

Gods, what a clusterfuck. I can't root for anyone here. It's a bunch of fedoras vs. Fakegothministress. I'm going back to RationalWiki, which is simultaneously a PC SJW Hellhole and a Known Manarchist Bro Space, depending on your perspective. Good day to all of you!

Also, where did the facepalm smiley go?!

[Luminesa]

Gods, what a clusterfuck. I can't root for anyone here. It's a bunch of fedoras vs. a fake goth. I'm going back to RationalWiki, which is simultaneously a PC SJW Hellhole and a Known Manarchist Bro Space, depending on your perspective. Good day to all of you!

Also, where did the facepalm go?!

But I like fedoras...

...We're talking about the hats, are we.

[Galloism]

Rape culture against men cannot exist under patriarchy.

This is very recent, on a very popular Feminist site (not Radical Feminist)
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/07/whe ... e-culture/
Do you see something about rape culture affecting men?

Rapes of men happens (mostly perpetrated by other men) and I would even say that's due the rape culture: those rapists rape other men due they see those victims as being more feminine.
But, as I hope you can understand, that's a collateral effect of the real rape culture, that is inherently against women, not a real rape culture against men,

You really don't know anything about sexual assault in male prisons.

I mean, that's terrible and all, but you do know the vast majority of men who are raped are raped outside of prison, and a significant majority of those victims report only female perpetrators, right?

Edit: Of course, those victims are marginalized by society, in a culture that sides with their rapists and mocks them as victims. Now, what should we call that....

[Herskerstad]

You really don't know anything about sexual assault in male prisons.

I mean, that's terrible and all, but you do know the vast majority of men who are raped are raped outside of prison, and a significant majority of those victims report only female perpetrators, right?

Edit: Of course, those victims are marginalized by society, in a culture that sides with their rapists and mocks them as victims. Now, what should we call that....

. . .

The Matriarchy?

[Frenline Delpha]

I mean, that's terrible and all, but you do know the vast majority of men who are raped are raped outside of prison, and a significant majority of those victims report only female perpetrators, right?

Edit: Of course, those victims are marginalized by society, in a culture that sides with their rapists and mocks them as victims. Now, what should we call that....

. . .

The Matriarchy?

An actual rape culture?

[Oil exporting People]

Is heterosexual hook up culture fuelling rapes on campuses?
Whatever you think it's so, or not, what could be, according you, the best solution to widespread rapes within campuses?

First off, you've committed a logical fallacy. Second, the idea that there is a rape epidemic at colleges is an outright lie:

The truth — and, since she's a politician, maybe that shouldn't be such a surprise — is exactly the opposite. According to the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics, the rate of rape and sexual assault is lower for college students (at 6.1 per 1,000) than for non-students (7.6 per 1,000). (Note: not 1 in 5). What's more, between 1997 and 2013, rape against women dropped by about 50%, in keeping with a more general drop in violent crime nationally.

[Chessmistress]

That's kind of like saying women are rape victims because they were drunk, therefore removing all alcohol from society means that rape will cease to exist.

Not exactly: it's kind of like saying that removing all alcohol and drugs from society means that the kind of rapes were men take advantage of intoxicated women will cease to exist.
It would be the outcome, indeed.
But it would be wrong, and it would be victim blaming, because rapes are due rapists, not due alcohol and drugs.

It won't help. The motivation for male rape in such establishments stem from their own loss of freedom and sense of self-powerlessness. As such, to reclaim that sense of power, overpowering and raping other men provides that satisfaction. It is nothing to do with femininity. You can have prisoners that are as gay as a Christmas tree, but they're not nearly as much of a victim as the shy uncomfortable new inmate, because he is perceived as weak, not feminine.

It has all to do with femininity, since femininity is perceived as weakness.

What you've done is equate femininity with weakness.

That's you doing that.

[/quote]

What I have done is recognising that our society equates femininity with weakness.

[Galloism]

. . .

The Matriarchy?

An actual rape culture?

There we go. More frighteningly, people like Chess willfully and knowingly perpetuates it, by pretending the numbers AREN'T what they are, and that men are biologically hardwired to ignore being raped and therefore we shouldn't give even one tiny damn about it.

It may not have been willfully and knowingly before, but at this point, with the overwhelming data has already been spoon fed to her, her attempt to marginalize and minimize men who are victims of rape has gone beyond ignorance to flat out malevolence. She is desperately trying to protect rapists and marginalize rape victims.

That, my friends, is an expression of rape culture - flat out.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

An actual rape culture?

There we go. More frighteningly, people like Chess willfully and knowingly perpetuates it, by pretending the numbers AREN'T what they are, and that men are biologically hardwired to ignore being raped and therefore we shouldn't give even one tiny damn about it.

It may not have been willfully and knowingly before, but at this point, with the overwhelming data has already been spoon fed to her, her attempt to marginalize and minimize men who are victims of rape has gone beyond ignorance to flat out malevolence. She is desperately trying to protect rapists and marginalize rape victims.

That, my friends, is an expression of rape culture - flat out.

Exactly. Men who are raped by the same gender are given attention, but the stigma makes many not want to come out; many times people I've known for years don't tell me unless it is one of their first times talking about it. And as for raped by women, men feel ashamed about it. As Chess said, woman are seen as (generally) physically weaker so it's seen as a sign of both weakness and impotence. However, physical power doesn't mean much if a man is drugged or drunk, if we are using the same standards of women being raped by men.

I'm not going to deny that more women are raped by men than men by women (I don't even want to look at the men-men numbers), but marginalizing them is no way to go about business.

[Galloism]

I'm not going to deny that more women are raped by men than men by women ,

This is *probably* true, but given the numbers being what they are, it's by no means certain.

The difference is too low and the margin of error too high to know for sure, and when you mix in societal attitudes that prevents men from even KNOWING they were victims of rape (sometimes until years later, or never at all), it may vanish into nothingness, but we can't say for certain. I won't make any strong statement either way.

[Hirota]

Now you're just reinforcing the rape culture against men. "You're a man, you clearly want it."

Rape culture against men cannot exist under patriarchy.

This is very recent, on a very popular Feminist site (not Radical Feminist)
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/07/whe ... e-culture/
Do you see something about rape culture affecting men?
Just only that
I

It’s not just women who experience rape – sexual violence affects people of all genders. But this is one example of how patriarchal gender norms can set up harmful expectations for women and other people who are treated like society treats women.

So all you are proving here is that "popular Feminist site(s)" are just as unhinged as "Radical Feminist." Must be uncomfortable for those apologists who keep claiming that the lunatic fringe is just a fringe to see you demonstrate it's infected the mainstream

[Crurnlark]

I'm more than ready to discuss about the widespread problem of men raping other men in male prisons.
I just think it's a subset of the rape culture in the whole society, and that such men who are victims are victimised because they're viewed as more feminine.
Hence why prison rapes are a collateral effect of the rape culture in the whole society, that is inherently against women.
Deleting rape culture in the whole society, even rapes within male prisons will cease to exist.

Alright, but you're shifting the scale of the argument- going from their argument that sex acts without consent is still sexual assault for men to your argument that rape culture remains focused on women.

And I am really confused about what you're implying, saying that if I were attacked sexually it wouldn't be sexual assault. I mean, I would understand if you were saying "the discussion about male victims of rape as if they are equally affected or at risk to women is distracting from the main points of rape culture, and you should move on from 'men are victims too!' for a better understanding". But to insist that it isn't sexual assault at all? o.o

[Herskerstad]

An actual rape culture?

There we go. More frighteningly, people like Chess willfully and knowingly perpetuates it, by pretending the numbers AREN'T what they are, and that men are biologically hardwired to ignore being raped and therefore we shouldn't give even one tiny damn about it.

It may not have been willfully and knowingly before, but at this point, with the overwhelming data has already been spoon fed to her, her attempt to marginalize and minimize men who are victims of rape has gone beyond ignorance to flat out malevolence. She is desperately trying to protect rapists and marginalize rape victims.

That, my friends, is an expression of rape culture - flat out.

Oh it's more about what she puts into the expressions of femininity and masculinity which permits this deviation from reason.

You would act using toxic masculinity, it would show that you have internalized misogyny.
Just like sisters who slapped the asses of other women during meetings.
It happens, sometimes, I'm not going to lie about it.
But it's more and more an uncommon behavior.

I love this idea that only sphere which introduces sexual invasions is the masculine, as if the feminine is naturally exempt from error on the part and can only resort to such when being 'corrupted.' It's very Beauvoiran, ideals based upon unbalanced perspective which's precepts on discernment disprove it's very own core thesis. Rape is masculine and therefore cannot be feminine, but when females do it they are utilising masculinity and internalised misogyny, elements presumably not native to them, even in historical instances were neither the parent culture nor the close kin or relations come sufficiently close to establishing an account on their deviancy or violence, because the ideal must be preserved above reality and in every case it must be based in an external influence rather than an internal, self-developed expression. If not, one might actually find concepts such as virtues in 'the others', to which no ideal puritanism, be it race or sex-based, can survive proper examination.

[Galloism]

I'm more than ready to discuss about the widespread problem of men raping other men in male prisons.
I just think it's a subset of the rape culture in the whole society, and that such men who are victims are victimised because they're viewed as more feminine.
Hence why prison rapes are a collateral effect of the rape culture in the whole society, that is inherently against women.
Deleting rape culture in the whole society, even rapes within male prisons will cease to exist.

Alright, but you're shifting the scale of the argument- going from their argument that sex acts without consent is still sexual assault for men to your argument that rape culture remains focused on women.

And I am really confused about what you're implying, saying that if I were attacked sexually it wouldn't be sexual assault. I mean, I would understand if you were saying "the discussion about male victims of rape as if they are equally affected or at risk to women is distracting from the main points of rape culture, and you should move on from 'men are victims too!' for a better understanding". But to insist that it isn't sexual assault at all? o.o

The cdc reports that, in the last year, if one is to use a gender neutral definition of rape, about the same number of men are raped per year as women, at least among adults.

Over 80% report only female perpetrators.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

[Crurnlark]

The cdc reports that, in the last year, if one is to use a gender neutral definition of rape, about the same number of men are raped per year as women, at least among adults.

Over 80% report only female perpetrators.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

Only stats I see near equal in there are comparisons in groups of victims, regarding what age they were during their first sexual assault. Could you quote something a bit more specific from that source? I'm really not seeing what you're seeing. Not that I don't believe you, I just need to see the stats for myself.

Still, troubling.

[Galloism]

The cdc reports that, in the last year, if one is to use a gender neutral definition of rape, about the same number of men are raped per year as women, at least among adults.

Over 80% report only female perpetrators.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

Only stats I see near equal in there are comparisons in groups of victims, regarding what age they were during their first sexual assault. Could you quote something a bit more specific from that source? I'm really not seeing what you're seeing. Not that I don't believe you, I just need to see the stats for myself.

Still, troubling.

Well, the CDC classifies nonconsensual vaginal sex as rape ONLY if the nonconsenting partner is female. If the nonconsenting partner is male, it's "made to penetrate" under "other sexual violence". I classify that as rape.

Compare that 12 month rate with the 12 month rape rate for women.

For bonus points, compare the made to penetrate by an intimate partner twelve month rate for men to the 12 month rape rate by an intimate partner for women.

[Imperializt Russia]

Politicians aren't pub trivia machines.
You're reading something into my assertion that's not there.
The point isn't immediately to assume that he is wrong.
It is to not arrogantly assume that he is right.

To concede the possibility that he might be incorrect.
That's valid about everyone, not just Trump.

She was in a position where it is likely she is more knowledgeable, due to self-interest. In this instance, she was.

I have no reason to immediately doubt your opinion on the issues faced by grad students with reading disabilities, because I do not have a reading disability. You are in a position where it is likely you are more knowledgeable than I am, due to self-interest.
I should consider that maybe you are, and hear you out. Obviously if you are wrong, the bleh, whatevs. If I am, then I should correct myself.

No, you're saying specifically that because Trump has a penis his actions, that ANYBODY may have taken for any number of understandable reasons, are best explained by his penis.

Would you like to try reading the posts I write, rather than ones in your head?

[Des-Bal]

Would you like to try reading the posts I write, rather than ones in your head?

Why don't you tell me exactly what you're taking issue with and exactly why it's not an accurate summary of what you're saying?