NationStates

Luminesa wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:
*yawn*
You keep being entitled.
It's quite funny, but even boring.
I think you'll learn it the hard way.
However, for those who are able to read French, here there's an interesting paper by a very famous anthropologist:
http://graduateinstitute.ch/files/live/ ... eillas.pdf
Such paper was presented on March, 15, 2000 in France, at the convention of the organization for Women's Development (one of the most important Women's organizations in France, actually fighting against FGM and surrogacy).
It explains that is absoutely true that 90% males are not needed in practically all mammals, including humans.
But it explains, and that's much more important, that the right path to follow isn't a reduction of the percentage of men, but through education: men should understand that they have to be useful and not harmful to the society, because the majority of women doesn't wish such reduction and we just only wish being treated as human beings.
It also explains a possible (and very likely) reason for patriarchy: according such anthropologist, the men, realizing the fact that most them are biologically useless for the perpetuation of the species in a natural setting, have flipped the things in their favor, through patriarchy that was meant for controlling the women.
Such anthropologist isn't an anonymous blogger, he was a very famous and respected French anthropologist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Meillassoux

Sometimes I think expalining things it's a waste of time, really.

You're obsolete, you've to prove you could be useful

1.) It takes two to tango, if you know what I mean. You got here because of a man and a woman, as did everyone here. The father is literally "pater", the "point-of-origin".

2.) Fathers not being in the house is statistically proven to cause an increase in crime rates in the children.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rime.penal

Males are indeed needed, just as the ladies are. Radical feminists have pushed men away so much that now we are a country of deadbeat dads, fathers who are afraid to take a stand for anything out of fear of being called the bad guy. Over half of the U.S.'s children have no fathers in the home. Telling men that they are essentially useless is not going to change that, either.

Rather than pushing men away even more by saying they are unnecessary for anything, why not call them back and call them to stand up and be strong figures in the home? Oh wait. That's promoting the patriarchy. We can't do that, can we?

See how this works? "Don't curse the darkness, bless the light."

Chessmistress wrote:

Luminesa wrote:1.) It takes two to tango, if you know what I mean. You got here because of a man and a woman, as did everyone here. The father is literally "pater", the "point-of-origin".

2.) Fathers not being in the house is statistically proven to cause an increase in crime rates in the children.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rime.penal

Males are indeed needed, just as the ladies are. Radical feminists have pushed men away so much that now we are a country of deadbeat dads, fathers who are afraid to take a stand for anything out of fear of being called the bad guy. Over half of the U.S.'s children have no fathers in the home. Telling men that they are essentially useless is not going to change that, either.

Rather than pushing men away even more by saying they are unnecessary for anything, why not call them back and call them to stand up and be strong figures in the home? Oh wait. That's promoting the patriarchy. We can't do that, can we?

See how this works? "Don't curse the darkness, bless the light."

"Rather than pushing men away even more"?
That's for real?
If it's so, then that's crazy.

Luminesa wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:
"Rather than pushing men away even more"?
That's for real?
If it's so, then that's crazy.

That's what you're doing. "You men are useless, you men are evil, you're entitled and awful people, why don't you do something useful with yourselves?"

It's kinda like how you have two siblings, and then the mom says to the "bad" one, "Why can't you be like your brother/sister?" Does that ever bring the child to do what the parent wants? No. It builds more of a rift in the family, and eventually leads to rebellion. It's similar here. Telling men they're not good for anything is not going to bring them back.

Now, extolling the virtues of men *GASP* and calling upon men to uphold those virtues is an entirely different ballgame. Do that, and you might get somewhere.

You're obsolete, you've to prove you could be useful

Sack Jackpot Winners wrote:Other than the fact that the article you quoted is flamingly unprofessional and emotionally laced, yes, I agree with that general thesis. Of course now we have to ask is the potential negative consequences of the minority worth ostracizing or condemning the innocent majority.

Kelinfort wrote:

You're obsolete, you've to prove you could be useful

I don't see how any research could come to that conclusion.

Claude Meillassoux (December 26, 1925 – January 3, 2005) was a French neo-Marxist economic anthropologist and Africanist.

Meillassoux, a student of Georges Balandier, did fieldwork among the Guro (Gouro) of the Côte d'Ivoire: his thesis was published in 1964. In the 1970s he criticised Marshall Sahlins's use of the notion of "domestic mode of production". Meillassoux was throughout his life a politically committed critic of social injustice.

He is survived by his partner, Corinne Belliard (a historian), his son Quentin (a philosopher), and his granddaughter Alma.
Books

Femmes, greniers et capitaux (1975, Maspero; transl. as Maidens, Meal and Money: Capitalism and the Domestic Community)
Anthropologie de l'esclavage: le ventre de fer et d'argent (1986; transl. 1991 as The Anthropology of Slavery: The Womb of Iron and Gold)

Articles

"Essai d'interprétation du phénomène économique dans les sociétés traditionnelles d'autosubsistance", Cahiers d'études africaines, 1960, 4: 38-67
“From Reproduction to Production: A Marxist Approach to Economic Anthropology.” Economy and Society 1(1), 1974

Kelinfort wrote:Regardless, hook up culture is not fueling rape; a lack of education on consent and a lack of sexual education helps to increase sexual assault rates.

Chessmistress wrote:Quoting an article by a famous anthropologist is "flamingly unprofessional"???

Grow a thicker skin, that's just a friendly suggestion...

Chessmistress wrote:

Luminesa wrote:That's what you're doing. "You men are useless, you men are evil, you're entitled and awful people, why don't you do something useful with yourselves?"

It's kinda like how you have two siblings, and then the mom says to the "bad" one, "Why can't you be like your brother/sister?" Does that ever bring the child to do what the parent wants? No. It builds more of a rift in the family, and eventually leads to rebellion. It's similar here. Telling men they're not good for anything is not going to bring them back.

Now, extolling the virtues of men *GASP* and calling upon men to uphold those virtues is an entirely different ballgame. Do that, and you might get somewhere.

I never said "you men are evil".
I just quoted the research of a very famous French antropologist.
And he's a man, too.
It's a man saying so, not me.
I even said I'm on the whole AGAINST it.
About entitlement: that's a VERY real thing, male entitlement it's a basis of Feminism.

Chessmistress wrote:

Kelinfort wrote:I don't see how any research could come to that conclusion.

There's a link
http://graduateinstitute.ch/files/live/ ... eillas.pdf
That's the author
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Meillassoux

Claude Meillassoux (December 26, 1925 – January 3, 2005) was a French neo-Marxist economic anthropologist and Africanist.

Meillassoux, a student of Georges Balandier, did fieldwork among the Guro (Gouro) of the Côte d'Ivoire: his thesis was published in 1964. In the 1970s he criticised Marshall Sahlins's use of the notion of "domestic mode of production". Meillassoux was throughout his life a politically committed critic of social injustice.

He is survived by his partner, Corinne Belliard (a historian), his son Quentin (a philosopher), and his granddaughter Alma.
Books

Femmes, greniers et capitaux (1975, Maspero; transl. as Maidens, Meal and Money: Capitalism and the Domestic Community)
Anthropologie de l'esclavage: le ventre de fer et d'argent (1986; transl. 1991 as The Anthropology of Slavery: The Womb of Iron and Gold)

Articles

"Essai d'interprétation du phénomène économique dans les sociétés traditionnelles d'autosubsistance", Cahiers d'études africaines, 1960, 4: 38-67
“From Reproduction to Production: A Marxist Approach to Economic Anthropology.” Economy and Society 1(1), 1974

Kelinfort wrote:Regardless, hook up culture is not fueling rape; a lack of education on consent and a lack of sexual education helps to increase sexual assault rates.

Nope.
Sexual assault rate had always been like that, and even more.
Now, it's just surfacing due women are becoming more and more aware about men's abuses.

Costa Fierro wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Quoting an article by a famous anthropologist is "flamingly unprofessional"???

He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.

Grow a thicker skin, that's just a friendly suggestion...

How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

Costa Fierro wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Quoting an article by a famous anthropologist is "flamingly unprofessional"???

He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.

Grow a thicker skin, that's just a friendly suggestion...

How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

Kelinfort wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.



How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

You two are perfect for each other, come to think of it.

Kelinfort wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.



How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

You two are perfect for each other, come to think of it.

Des-Bal wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.



How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

Why are you resorting to hypotheticals? She just said that the value of women was their ability to absorb semen and produce babies, let the statement stand as to how seriously these ideas should be taken.

FelrikTheDeleted wrote:

Kelinfort wrote:You two are perfect for each other, come to think of it.

Well opposites do attract.

Kelinfort wrote:You two are perfect for each other, come to think of it.

Des-Bal wrote:Why are you resorting to hypotheticals? She just said that the value of women was their ability to absorb semen and produce babies, let the statement stand as to how seriously these ideas should be taken.

Costa Fierro wrote:

Kelinfort wrote:You two are perfect for each other, come to think of it.

No. I don't want to wake up to find myself inside a cardboard box on the street with my penis missing.

Des-Bal wrote:Why are you resorting to hypotheticals? She just said that the value of women was their ability to absorb semen and produce babies, let the statement stand as to how seriously these ideas should be taken.

Why can't we go further? Humans are already inventing VR sex toys, we have sex dolls, fleshlights etc. Men can cook, clean and do everything a woman can.

Really, what does a woman give us that a man cannot do himself?

Kelinfort wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
No. I don't want to wake up to find myself inside a cardboard box on the street with my penis missing.



Why can't we go further? Humans are already inventing VR sex toys, we have sex dolls, fleshlights etc. Men can cook, clean and do everything a woman can.

Really, what does a woman give us that a man cannot do himself?

I ship it.

Kelinfort wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
No. I don't want to wake up to find myself inside a cardboard box on the street with my penis missing.



Why can't we go further? Humans are already inventing VR sex toys, we have sex dolls, fleshlights etc. Men can cook, clean and do everything a woman can.

Really, what does a woman give us that a man cannot do himself?

I ship it.

Costa Fierro wrote:

Chessmistress wrote:Quoting an article by a famous anthropologist is "flamingly unprofessional"???

He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.

Grow a thicker skin, that's just a friendly suggestion...

How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

Luminesa wrote:Well, that's the general thesis of your argument, that men are entitled and evil, and essentially useless.

"It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social cohesion" - Harriet Harman, UK Labour Party Leader since 2015, from "The Family Way".

Luminesa wrote:

Kelinfort wrote:I ship it.

>Literally a minute after I posted you saying that.

Chessmistress wrote:

Sack Jackpot Winners wrote:Other than the fact that the article you quoted is flamingly unprofessional and emotionally laced, yes, I agree with that general thesis. Of course now we have to ask is the potential negative consequences of the minority worth ostracizing or condemning the innocent majority.

Quoting an article by a famous anthropologist is "flamingly unprofessional"???
Really?
Grow a thicker skin, that's just a friendly suggestion...

Chessmistress wrote:

Costa Fierro wrote:
He's not "famous". He's some obscure Frenchman who no one has ever heard of until you brought him up.



How about you not call men obsolete? Would you be incensed if men invented an artificial womb and then said that all women were useless?

It isn't men who are developing the artificial womb, it's mainly women, it'll took at least 30, even 40 years before being fully reliable.
I bet its use it'll be reserved to women.
Did you want to bet against me?

Luminesa wrote:Well, that's the general thesis of your argument, that men are entitled and evil, and essentially useless.

Nope
Entitlement is a very actual thing.
I never said "evil": that would be nonsensical.
"Useless"? It isn't an absolute thing, but in some ways...

"It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social cohesion" - Harriet Harman, UK Labour Party Leader since 2015, from "The Family Way".

Chessmistress wrote:Did you want to bet against me?