The NFL Thread: 2018 Preseason

[Trollgaard]

He fell because of character concerns and injury. The dude has some potential. I'd be mildly optimistic about him. His uncle's a friggin hall of famer....dude has potential bro!

I don't do optimism. People told me to be optimistic about Tebow, and look how that worked out.

He won a playoff game.

But seriously, I am very interested in how Chad Kelly develops. The Broncos's are a rival, but it would be cool if Jim Kelly's nephew turned into Pat Mahomes' main rival!

[Ranoria]

I don't do optimism. People told me to be optimistic about Tebow, and look how that worked out.

He won a playoff game.

But seriously, I am very interested in how Chad Kelly develops. The Broncos's are a rival, but it would be cool if Jim Kelly's nephew turned into Pat Mahomes' main rival!

Personally, I think that Trevor Knight deserves a look.

[Ranoria]

Watched a bit of the combine. Just some WRs I like, not as 1st rounders or anything, but they look like they could be some nice late-round snags:

Auden Tate, Florida State, 6'5: The guy's freaking huge.He's a monster, he's got some nice hands, and he doesn't quite have burners, but running 4.6 at his size is impressive. Caught a TD on Minkah Fitzpatrick in week 1 against Alabama with the guy all over him.

Highlight: https://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt ... -106851150

Ka'raun White: Kevin White's brother, as I'm sure you guys guessed. 12 TD, 1,000 yard year in college last season. Guy put up a 4.53 40 (not blazing, but better than Antonio Brown's, so eh), and 24 reps on the bench. Guy has some great hands, too.

Highlight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK17X0ZN0OA

[Ameriganastan]

And like always, I maintain the combine is completely pointless and has no bearing on NFL skill.

[Ranoria]

And like always, I maintain the combine is completely pointless and has no bearing on NFL skill.

Tyreek Hill begs to differ. As does JJ Watt. Myles Garrett. It gives teams a feel for how physically gifted a player is, and certain events pertain more to certain players than others. Ex: No one cares about an OL's 40 time, although they can be hilarious.

[Ranoria]

Nic Shimonek is a sleeper in this draft, just saying. 3000 yards and 33 TDs vs 9 INT this year. Sounds like one hell of a player.

[Ameriganastan]

And like always, I maintain the combine is completely pointless and has no bearing on NFL skill.

Tyreek Hill begs to differ. As does JJ Watt. Myles Garrett. It gives teams a feel for how physically gifted a player is, and certain events pertain more to certain players than others. Ex: No one cares about an OL's 40 time, although they can be hilarious.

It gives a team nothing. These stupid tests are pointless.

[Mujahidah]

Tyreek Hill begs to differ. As does JJ Watt. Myles Garrett. It gives teams a feel for how physically gifted a player is, and certain events pertain more to certain players than others. Ex: No one cares about an OL's 40 time, although they can be hilarious.

It gives a team nothing. These stupid tests are pointless.

Knowing how fast a running back or how agile a wide receiver is before drafting him is totally stupid and pointless. You heard it here first folks!

You know what got Julian Edelman on Belichick's radar? His cone-drill speed. Clearly, combine was pointless.

[Ameriganastan]

Knowing how fast a running back or how agile a wide receiver is before drafting him is totally stupid and pointless. You heard it here first folks!

Except these tests are completely flawed. If you want me to buy into this idiocy, make them do the combine workout in pads and shit. Bet you they wouldn't be so fucking fast then.

[Mujahidah]

Knowing how fast a running back or how agile a wide receiver is before drafting him is totally stupid and pointless. You heard it here first folks!

Except these tests are completely flawed. If you want me to buy into this idiocy, make them do the combine workout in pads and shit. Bet you they wouldn't be so fucking fast then.

I never said that the Combine was perfect. I said it wasn't useless. You're taking a uselessly radical and belligerent position on something the doesn't require that sort of approach. If the Combine was useless, it wouldn't happen. The players wouldn't want to risk injury and the scouts coaches and GMs would bother showing up. It does happen, Front Offices assign it a value. It has a purpose.

[Ameriganastan]

I never said that the Combine was perfect. I said it wasn't useless.

And I maintain it's useless.

You're taking a uselessly radical and belligerent position on something the doesn't require that sort of approach.

Hi, I'm Ameri. Have we not met?

If the Combine was useless, it wouldn't happen.

Yeah, cause the NFL doesn't do regularly pointless shit that's also useless.

The players wouldn't want to risk injury and the scouts coaches and GMs would bother showing up. It does happen, Front Offices assign it a value. It has a purpose.

The front office is an idiot then. All this exercise in pointlessness does is give sports talking heads something to squawk about during the gap between the draft.

[Ranoria]

Nic Shimonek, Texas Tech QB: tossed 5 TD v 1 INT and 331 yards in relief of Pat Malhommes. This season, he put up a nice 3,963 yards, 33 TD, and 9 interceptions. One could say, "He was playing lower competition." Well, so was Pat Malhommes. Granted, Malhommes put up 4600 and 5000 as well as 36/41 TDs, but I never said Shimonek is a first round prospect.

Shimonek is also raw, with only one season of starting experience, but here's some highlights of his season for you.

-Started the year 3-0, tossing eleven touchdowns in that span, including a 6 TD outburst in a shootout against arizona state that they won 52-46. Easter Washington, Arizona State and Houston, two of the teams in that span, finished with winning records, a total combined record of 21-15.

-Put up 330 yards in a losing effort against the eventually 10-3 Oklahoma State Cowboys, but only lost 41-34. The Cowboys were never ranked lower than 18 in the AP poll this season.

-Kept his team in the game against National Championship Runner-Up Oklahoma until the 4th quarter, putting up 4 touchdowns and 322 yards. Actually outplayed Baker Mayfield in that one, statistically.

-Tossed 400 yards and 4 scores in a losing effort against Kansas State, who finished 8-5 and would win their bowl game.

-Defeated Texas after putting the team on his back during a 4th quarter comeback.

[Ameriganastan]

And by the way, here's some names who had a "Bad combine performance". See if you recognize a few.

Little guy named Tom Brady. He clearly never amounted to anything. After all, he had a bad combine, so he must be a bad player.
Drew Brees? Nah, unimpressive combine. Probably flipping burgers somewhere cause of that bad combine.
Antonio Brown? Bad combine, so I guess he never went anywhere.
Terrel Suggs? Never heard of him.

It's all bullshit pseudoscience that has ZERO bearing on a players skill.

[Ameriganastan]

Oh, what the Hell. Let's go the other way. Some names with good combines who were total flops.

Tim Tebow.
Vernon Gholston.
Matt Jones.
Darrius Heyward-Bey.
Stephen Hill.

Should I keep going? Or are you still gonna defend this?

[Val Halla]

I don't think drafting skill players in the first round is a great idea. bad teams draft them at a far higher rate than the best teams. there's a greater depth of skill players you can pick in later rounds than there is top defensive players, so you go for defence in higher positions. it makes sense that you draft the harder positions to play higher.

plus, let's have a comparison.

Mike Williams and Corey Davis vs Cooper Kupp and Juju Smith-Schuster

The first round receivers got no TDs. Kupp and Juju got 13
The first round receivers have a way shorter receiving average
They're also way less efficient in getting first downs
They also struggle to make big gains
And lower receptions per game

In RBs... well, who was the ROTY?

[RiderSyl]

plus, let's have a comparison.

Mike Williams and Corey Davis vs Cooper Kupp and Juju Smith-Schuster

The first round receivers got no TDs. Kupp and Juju got 13
The first round receivers have a way shorter receiving average
They're also way less efficient in getting first downs
They also struggle to make big gains
And lower receptions per game

Corey Davis was stuck in an offensive scheme from 1973 and missed games with injury, and Mike Williams took until Week 6 to play his first NFL game.

Context, context, context

[Jerzylvania]

And by the way, here's some names who had a "Bad combine performance". See if you recognize a few.

Little guy named Tom Brady. He clearly never amounted to anything. After all, he had a bad combine, so he must be a bad player.
Drew Brees? Nah, unimpressive combine. Probably flipping burgers somewhere cause of that bad combine.
Antonio Brown? Bad combine, so I guess he never went anywhere.
Terrel Suggs? Never heard of him.

It's all bullshit pseudoscience that has ZERO bearing on a players skill.

^this

[Luminesa]

And by the way, here's some names who had a "Bad combine performance". See if you recognize a few.

Little guy named Tom Brady. He clearly never amounted to anything. After all, he had a bad combine, so he must be a bad player.
Drew Brees? Nah, unimpressive combine. Probably flipping burgers somewhere cause of that bad combine.
Antonio Brown? Bad combine, so I guess he never went anywhere.
Terrel Suggs? Never heard of him.

It's all bullshit pseudoscience that has ZERO bearing on a players skill.

...Fam has a point.

[Mujahidah]

And by the way, here's some names who had a "Bad combine performance". See if you recognize a few.

Little guy named Tom Brady. He clearly never amounted to anything. After all, he had a bad combine, so he must be a bad player.
Drew Brees? Nah, unimpressive combine. Probably flipping burgers somewhere cause of that bad combine.
Antonio Brown? Bad combine, so I guess he never went anywhere.
Terrel Suggs? Never heard of him.

It's all bullshit pseudoscience that has ZERO bearing on a players skill.

...Fam has a point.

Not really. No one ever said that the Combine is the be-all-end-all of football scouting. Obviously some people are going to be busts but have a good combine, and vice versa. That doesn't mean its useless. Plenty of people have had excellent college tape and been total busts. It happens. Scouting isn't perfect. The Combine is one of many tools.

[Ranoria]

I don't think drafting skill players in the first round is a great idea. bad teams draft them at a far higher rate than the best teams. there's a greater depth of skill players you can pick in later rounds than there is top defensive players, so you go for defence in higher positions. it makes sense that you draft the harder positions to play higher.

plus, let's have a comparison.

Mike Williams and Corey Davis vs Cooper Kupp and Juju Smith-Schuster

The first round receivers got no TDs. Kupp and Juju got 13
The first round receivers have a way shorter receiving average
They're also way less efficient in getting first downs
They also struggle to make big gains
And lower receptions per game

In RBs... well, who was the ROTY?

Corey Davis was battling injury all season, as was Mariota, that drastically reduced their production. Once Davis was healthy, in the post season, he had 9 receptions for 98 yards and a pair of scores, probably would've gotten more if Mariota hadn't gotten hurt again. Davis was also in a terrible offense. I mean, christ, Mike Mularkey/Terry Robiskie would love to have Jim Brown and run him out of the wild cat all day. Williams shouldn't have been drafted, the Chargers were already set at reciever, and he hurt his back early on.

Beyond that, no one is arguing that it's the final say in everything. I'm sure Orlando Brown will be fine, for example. I'd also like to point out that pocket passer quarterbacks are obviously clear exceptions to this entire argument, they don't need to be athletes, they throw a football. Like I said earlier, it simply gives teams an idea of a player's athletic and physical parameters. Ex: Some unknown DL puts up 40 reps on the bench, yeah, I'm going to give him a look. A highly-touted WR runs a 4.8? Yeah, he might fall a bit.

It also lets teams get ideas of physical traits for guys they haven't seen a ton of film on. After all, they can't watch film on every single prospect.

[Ameriganastan]

...Fam has a point.

Not really. No one ever said that the Combine is the be-all-end-all of football scouting. Obviously some people are going to be busts but have a good combine, and vice versa. That doesn't mean its useless. Plenty of people have had excellent college tape and been total busts. It happens. Scouting isn't perfect. The Combine is one of many tools.

Nice backpedaling there. You should go into cycling.

[Jerzylvania]

Not really. No one ever said that the Combine is the be-all-end-all of football scouting. Obviously some people are going to be busts but have a good combine, and vice versa. That doesn't mean its useless. Plenty of people have had excellent college tape and been total busts. It happens. Scouting isn't perfect. The Combine is one of many tools.

Nice backpedaling there. You should go into cycling.

Michael Jackson dance impersonator.

[Mujahidah]

Not really. No one ever said that the Combine is the be-all-end-all of football scouting. Obviously some people are going to be busts but have a good combine, and vice versa. That doesn't mean its useless. Plenty of people have had excellent college tape and been total busts. It happens. Scouting isn't perfect. The Combine is one of many tools.

Nice backpedaling there. You should go into cycling.

I didn't back peddle anything. Thats what I've been saying the whole time. I guess you just didn't have anything to respond with so you're just accusing me of made up offenses.

[Nation of Warfare]

Well, Carolina just added RB to its Draft need table, since the team have released Jonathan Stewart.

[Luminesa]

...Fam has a point.

Not really. No one ever said that the Combine is the be-all-end-all of football scouting. Obviously some people are going to be busts but have a good combine, and vice versa. That doesn't mean its useless. Plenty of people have had excellent college tape and been total busts. It happens. Scouting isn't perfect. The Combine is one of many tools.

True, but in the end, it only matters if you can actually get out there and play. Even if you’re a QB who runs slow on the field, you just have to play up to your strengths.