87 YO grandma arrested for 'holocaust denial'

[Jumalariik]

Their concept is wrong. I am not a cultural relativist, and I know that their concept of "free" speech is not free at all. They should abandon all pretense of having any form of freedom of speech if are to continue to enforce laws like this.

So I take it we're back to "how dare other countries not be exactly like America"?

Sometimes America does things right. One of those things where America is great is free expression.

[CyberSomalia]

Her age is irrelevant. She still has the right to deny things as much she wants.

[Jumalariik]

Her age is irrelevant. She still has the right to deny things as much she wants.

Yes. This.

[The Greater Aryan Race]

I salute the actions of the German authorities. There can be no justification for genocide denial.

[Risottia]

Her age is irrelevant. She still has the right to deny things as much she wants.

No, she does not, as confirmed by all competent authorities.

[Jumalariik]

Her age is irrelevant. She still has the right to deny things as much she wants.

No, she does not, as confirmed by all competent authorities.

"Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

Considering that's all she did...

[SaintB]

No, she does not, as confirmed by all competent authorities.

"Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

Considering that's all she did...

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

[Minzerland II]

"Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

Considering that's all she did...

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

So what?

[CyberSomalia]

"Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

Considering that's all she did...

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

It is a freedom of speech and if not expression. She believes it was a mere labor camp and if she believes so then, well, not much we can change. You cannot punish her for that.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

"Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declarat ... an-rights/

Considering that's all she did...

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

Would you like to incarcerate people for spreading misinformation.

[SaintB]

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

It is a freedom of speech and if not expression. She believes it was a mere labor camp and if she believes so then, well, not much we can change. You cannot punish her for that.

She doesn't believe it it, she is deliberately lying about it and that is against the law in Germany. Like screaming fire in a theater or calling in a bomb threat for fun.

[SaintB]

Its not a freedom of speech issue. She has been deliberately lying about the holocaust for decades in violation German law as part of a campaign to spread a Nazi agenda she's been a part of since WWII.

So what?

So its the same thing as making a false bomb threat in America. Its not protected speech.

[CyberSomalia]

It is a freedom of speech and if not expression. She believes it was a mere labor camp and if she believes so then, well, not much we can change. You cannot punish her for that.

She doesn't believe it it, she is deliberately lying about it and that is against the law in Germany. Like screaming fire in a theater or calling in a bomb threat for fun.

Lying is not prohibited in German law. Yes, it is prohibited to deny the Holocaust happened (I disagree that it should be) but even then, she claimed that Auschwitz was a mere labor camp.

First thing off; she did not explicitly deny the Holocaust, she said Auschwitz was a labor camp. Second of all, you cannot prove she is lying nor that she purely believes so. Thirdly, you have no proof she did so for political gains. She did nothing wrong.

A false bomb threat is something completely different and a horrible comparison.

[Minzerland II]

So what?

So its the same thing as making a false bomb threat in America. Its not protected speech.

That is a false equivalence, holocaust Denial is in no way comparable to false bomb threats. Also, I don't so much care whether it isn't protected speech, almost all speech to me is protected including holocaust denial.

EDIT: In addition, why should I follow this law?

[SaintB]

She doesn't believe it it, she is deliberately lying about it and that is against the law in Germany. Like screaming fire in a theater or calling in a bomb threat for fun.

Lying is not prohibited in German law. Yes, it is prohibited to deny the Holocaust happened (I disagree that it should be) but even then, she claimed that Auschwitz was a mere labor camp.

First thing off; she did not explicitly deny the Holocaust, she said Auschwitz was a labor camp. Second of all, you cannot prove she is lying nor that she purely believes so. Thirdly, you have no proof she did so for political gains. She did nothing wrong.

A false bomb threat is something completely different and a horrible comparison.

No its it not seeing as this woman had a decades long history of this stuff and well documented relationship with the German Nazi Party. She's been in trouble for doing it before and prosecutors have proven she knows precisely what she is doing.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Lying is not prohibited in German law. Yes, it is prohibited to deny the Holocaust happened (I disagree that it should be) but even then, she claimed that Auschwitz was a mere labor camp.

First thing off; she did not explicitly deny the Holocaust, she said Auschwitz was a labor camp. Second of all, you cannot prove she is lying nor that she purely believes so. Thirdly, you have no proof she did so for political gains. She did nothing wrong.

A false bomb threat is something completely different and a horrible comparison.

No its it not seeing as this woman had a decades long history of this stuff and well documented relationship with the German Nazi Party. She's been in trouble for doing it before and prosecutors have proven she knows precisely what she is doing.

Are you advocating for the incarnation of this person, for not being factually incorrect?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I'd also like to add that freedom of speech protects what she is doing, freedom of speech doesn't protect the encouragement or incitement of violence, along with threats and harassment.

[SaintB]

No its it not seeing as this woman had a decades long history of this stuff and well documented relationship with the German Nazi Party. She's been in trouble for doing it before and prosecutors have proven she knows precisely what she is doing.

She shouldn't be punished for spreading lies, especially for lies that are so easily debunked.
Would you incarcerate people who spread lies.

Deliberately spreading information you know to be false in an attempt to incite violence and civil unrest as part of some kind of agenda or as part of a campaign of targeted harassment against an individual or group is illegal in pretty much the entire world.

[CyberSomalia]

Lying is not prohibited in German law. Yes, it is prohibited to deny the Holocaust happened (I disagree that it should be) but even then, she claimed that Auschwitz was a mere labor camp.

First thing off; she did not explicitly deny the Holocaust, she said Auschwitz was a labor camp. Second of all, you cannot prove she is lying nor that she purely believes so. Thirdly, you have no proof she did so for political gains. She did nothing wrong.

A false bomb threat is something completely different and a horrible comparison.

No its it not seeing as this woman had a decades long history of this stuff and well documented relationship with the German Nazi Party. She's been in trouble for doing it before and prosecutors have proven she knows precisely what she is doing.

No one knows what she is doing except herself. Stop making things up. Even if she is a Nazi then she still has the right to be so. She has the right to deny the Holocaust, everyone has that, no matter if we agree with it or not.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

She shouldn't be punished for spreading lies, especially for lies that are so easily debunked.
Would you incarcerate people who spread lies.

Deliberately spreading information you know to be false in an attempt to incite violence and civil unrest as part of some kind of agenda or as part of a campaign of targeted harassment against an individual or group is illegal in pretty much the entire world.

The spreading of lies is not the incitement of violence; civil unrest is a possibility.
I'd like you to elaborate as to how this incites violence, all she had done is deny that the Holocaust happened?
If she has said that it should have happened and is encouraging others to commit this action then she is rightfully justified in being incarcerated.
I'd also like to ask you; Are you advocating the incarnation of a person for being factually incorrect?

[Allanea]

Deliberately spreading information you know to be false in an attempt to incite violence and civil unrest as part of some kind of agenda or as part of a campaign of targeted harassment against an individual or group is illegal in pretty much the entire world.

So tell me of that time in post-WW2 Germany (or anywhere in the western world) where holocaust denialism led - not simply to incidents of isolated violence - but to actual civil unrest.

[SaintB]

Deliberately spreading information you know to be false in an attempt to incite violence and civil unrest as part of some kind of agenda or as part of a campaign of targeted harassment against an individual or group is illegal in pretty much the entire world.

The spreading of lies is not the incitement of violence; civil unrest is a possibility.
I'd like you to elaborate as to how this incites violence, all she had done is deny that the Holocaust happened?
If she has said that it should have happened and is encouraging others to commit this action then she is rightfully justified in being incarcerated.
I'd also like to ask you; Are you advocating the incarnation of a person for being factually incorrect?

You are really not at all familiar with this woman's history are you? Her and her husband both have (in her husbands case had) as I have mentioned before a decades long history of deliberately spreading misinformation about the Holocaust as well as trying to find legal means to harass and intimidate Jews among another groups.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The spreading of lies is not the incitement of violence; civil unrest is a possibility.
I'd like you to elaborate as to how this incites violence, all she had done is deny that the Holocaust happened?
If she has said that it should have happened and is encouraging others to commit this action then she is rightfully justified in being incarcerated.
I'd also like to ask you; Are you advocating the incarnation of a person for being factually incorrect?

You are really not at all familiar with this woman's history are you? Her and her husband both have (in her husbands case had) as I have mentioned before a decades long history of deliberately spreading misinformation about the Holocaust as well as trying to find legal means to harass and intimidate Jews among another groups.

If this was a case of her being incarcerated for encouraging the harassment and intimidation of the Jewish people or those that follow the Jewish religion then this in my subjective opinion would be justified; This isn't the incarnation as a consequence of those actions though, this is incarceration on the basis of being factually incorrect, something of which doesn't encourage violence, harassment, threats or intimidation, unless you'd like to elaborate as to how this does encourage or incite the things listed?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The more I see the more convinced I am that 70+ million people all died for nothing.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The more I see the more convinced I am that 70+ million people all died for nothing.

The more I see this, the more I realise that people are forgetting the value of free speech.