UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Souseiseki]

Yeah, can't they just leave Jimmy Saville to rest in peace?

Fucking brutal....

post your face when this is pretty much what thathcer's former aide said except in reference to his pals

[Fartsniffage]

Fucking brutal....

post your face when this is pretty much what thathcer's former aide said except in reference to his pals

I tried to find shocked but I think it might have gone the way of the face palm.....

[Souseiseki]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -ship.html

also fucking lol at this

[Vassenor]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3889162/Fresh-hope-campaign-pardon-Britain-s-witch-convicted-1944-200-year-old-law-vision-WWII-war-ship.html

also fucking lol at this

The hell?

[The Blaatschapen]

Hard brexit, soft brexit
Little ball of fur
Happy Boris, Sleepy Boris
Pur, pur, pur

[Vassenor]

So the BBC ran a children's program depicting trans issues in a positive light.

And predictably the conservative pundits are losing their minds.

[HMS Vanguard]

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

The problem with inquiries into divisive actions is that they often turn into witch hunts.

It would not surprise me if the police got away with doing things that are strictly criminal. On the other hand, picketing a factory so as to block the entry of non-striking employees is also a crime. Did everyone who committed this crime during those strikes go to prison?

The miners' strikes were a sort of low level civil war. Both sides got away with things they would not have done in "peace time". Retroactive rigorous enforcement of the law selectively on one of the sides is not justice, it is a continuation of that war by political means.

[Eastfield Lodge]

So the BBC ran a children's program depicting trans issues in a positive light.

And predictably the conservative pundits are losing their minds.

'Glamourising being trans' doesn't sound like a conservative mindset, to be honest.

[HMS Vanguard]

Corruption is a different beast to cowardice and not wanting to upset a bunch of activists. I'd be all for an inquiry into corruption and such. Just none on poice brutality anymore, until it's an actual fucking problem in this country compared to police inaction.

so you'd prefer a corrupt violent police to a "soft" police? (ignoring the whole sweeping new powers and countless new crimes issue, except actually don't, because you don't have the luxury of getting to do that)

i'm still not buying the "but it was ages ago" argument btw

He said he wanted to bring back cavalry charges.

In most of that era we did not have police, which is why assemblies of such scale as to be militarily relevant were met by the military.

Without police there can be no police corruption.

Would Rotherham be possible? Perhaps. But probably not. Without the police restraining them, the fathers would have shot at the rapists, and the communities would have organised into militias that would have enforced segregation of the two communities, at least of the military age men of the two communities. That is not a good outcome but perhaps better than the one we have.

[Ostroeuropa]

so you'd prefer a corrupt violent police to a "soft" police? (ignoring the whole sweeping new powers and countless new crimes issue, except actually don't, because you don't have the luxury of getting to do that)

i'm still not buying the "but it was ages ago" argument btw

He said he wanted to bring back cavalry charges.

In most of that era we did not have police, which is why assemblies of such scale as to be militarily relevant were met by the military.

Without police there can be no police corruption.

Would Rotherham be possible? Perhaps. But probably not. Without the police restraining them, the fathers would have shot at the rapists, and the communities would have organised into militias that would have enforced segregation of the two communities, at least of the military age men of the two communities. That is not a good outcome but perhaps better than the one we have.

Um.

Are...
Are you actually British?

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/c3646c68b4424 ... b4gb9d.jpg

Police cavalry charges were employed pretty frequently by the Thatcher government police. It's one of the most iconic things about the poll tax riots. It's why it's so absurd to have an inquiry to prove police misconduct. Everyone knows the police were heavy handed during that time. The only argument for it is that it might prove it in specific cases against an individual.

[South Park Labourite]

So the BBC ran a children's program depicting trans issues in a positive light.

And predictably the conservative pundits are losing their minds.

lol

[HMS Vanguard]

He said he wanted to bring back cavalry charges.

In most of that era we did not have police, which is why assemblies of such scale as to be militarily relevant were met by the military.

Without police there can be no police corruption.

Would Rotherham be possible? Perhaps. But probably not. Without the police restraining them, the fathers would have shot at the rapists, and the communities would have organised into militias that would have enforced segregation of the two communities, at least of the military age men of the two communities. That is not a good outcome but perhaps better than the one we have.

Um.

Are...
Are you actually British?

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/c3646c68b4424 ... b4gb9d.jpg

Police cavalry charges

We used to have cavalry cavalry charges.

AFAIK the use of police cavalry charges was never abandoned, we just haven't had occasion for them lately.

It's one of the most iconic things about the poll tax riots. It's why it's so absurd to have an inquiry to prove police misconduct. Everyone knows the police were heavy handed during that time.

Using cavalry against rioters isn't illegal.

The objection to an inquiry into police misconduct is that there is no call for an inquiry into union misconduct. If we rigorously prosecuted everyone who committed a crime around that time we would be jailing tens or hundreds of thousands of people.

[Tananat]

Costly, overly long inquiries are essentially a British tradition by this point. That the government refuses to carry out one on the Battle of Orgreave is contrary to both our traditions and the interests of the British people. Wrong doing was committed, that much has always been clear, and it is in the public interest to look at the incident and identify those officers who committed offences and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Police corruption and cover ups should always be punished, whether they happened 3 months or 30 years ago.

[HMS Vanguard]

Wrong doing was committed, that much has always been clear, and it is in the public interest to look at the incident and identify those officers who committed offences and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

It is not, because the law was also bent to permit unions to picket someone else's work place in order to unlawfully obstruct goods shipments, with the intention of destroying vital national infrastructure to overthrow the government supported by the elected parliament.

One can make a reasonable argument that what the unions did was treason. At that time, they people like Scargill could still have been hanged for it. In previous times this would have been treated as riotous assembly and dispersed with troops. Obviously that was off the table.

What was done instead was to rough some people up. Not even very many, and not that badly. This is not about justice. It is about an ideological extremist movement with plenty of skeletons in its own closet trying to damage its enemies.

[South Park Labourite]

Oh hohohohohoho I've had an excellent week in regards to Labour:

http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/momentum-or-inertia/
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... r-momentum (note: this article is somewhat inaccurate for misrepresenting the AWL's politics, they voted to remove Jackie Walker for antisemitism)
http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/no-to ... -marxists/
https://jillsmomentumblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/28/nc/
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/el ... crimonious
https://jillsmomentumblog.wordpress.com ... onreport2/
http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/jon-l ... -momentum/
http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/motio ... -momentum/
http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/open- ... committee/
https://jillsmomentumblog.wordpress.com ... 0/30/four/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

http://labourpartymarxists.org.uk/model ... onference/

I had so many links I wanted to post in regards to this, but I think this will do. I've tried to stick them in some sort of chronological order. Anyway, I digress: so essentially Momentum, after their resounding victory over Owen Smith, have found themselves without an enemy. We are talking about the hard left of course, so without a common enemy to unite them they are of course going to turn on each other. That much is inevitable.

The main bone of contention is over what structure Momentum should have - an OMOV online conference (proposed by Lansmen and supported by the 'Momentum establishment') or a delegate system where each region nominates delegates who vote on issues at a Momentum Conference (proposed by the AWL and seemingly supported by most Momentum branches + the Fire Brigades Union + Labour Party Marxists + Labour Party Socialist Network + various groups with different names). Ironically it seems the prior would be the more democratic option, but I guess autocracy narratives are really effective. Old rivalries also seem to be coming to fruition and there seems to be discontent by the Momentum leadership over their loss of influence of different regional groups.

Fun times are coming. There's reason for moderates to be optimistic post-2020, best of luck to the AWL in destroying Momentum.

[Philjia]

Fun times are coming. There's reason for moderates to be optimistic post-2020, best of luck to the AWL in destroying Momentum.

Moderates and radicals with standards.

[South Park Labourite]

Fun times are coming. There's reason for moderates to be optimistic post-2020, best of luck to the AWL in destroying Momentum.

Moderates and radicals with standards.

I actually kinda like the AWL, I have quite a few AWL friends.

[Frank Zipper]

Lord Heseltine strangled his mother's Alsatian.

[Ostroeuropa]

Lord Heseltine strangled his mother's Alsatian.

I'll just point out that even animal care workers are often taught how to kill animals in the event they attack. Least I was when I did it. Never had to do so, but yeh.

The presence of a choker chain raises eyebrows though.

[Imperializt Russia]

yeah the old police would never cover up child rape

Corruption is a different beast to cowardice and not wanting to upset a bunch of activists. I'd be all for an inquiry into corruption and such. Just none on police brutality anymore, until it's an actual problem in this country compared to police inaction.

Police brutality is always a problem.

If you can't understand why, I can't help you.

[Imperializt Russia]

Hard brexit, soft brexit
Little ball of fur
Happy Boris, Sleepy Boris
Pur, pur, pur

tfw one of the answer cards in the UK edition of Cards Against Humanity is actually "rubbing Boris' belly until he goes asleep"

Can't wait until the post-Brexit update when all European references are mercilessly purged.

[Ifreann]

so you'd prefer a corrupt violent police to a soft police? (ignoring the whole sweeping new powers and countless new crimes issue, except actually don't, because you don't have the luxury of getting to do that)

There's going to be violence either way. At least the cops aren't violent to enforce a particular ideology on me.

Would you rather your town had violent cops, or violent islamic fundamentalists who nobody would do shit to stop?

Yeh. Me too.

Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive? Am I being too subtle with the Jimmy Saville references?

---

Hard brexit, soft brexit
Little ball of fur
Happy Boris, Sleepy Boris
Pur, pur, pur

tfw one of the answer cards in the UK edition of Cards Against Humanity is actually "rubbing Boris' belly until he goes asleep"

Can't wait until the post-Brexit update when all European references are mercilessly purged.

The Continent Which Shall Not Be Named.

[Vassenor]

If I didn't know better I'd say people were trying to force a moral panic over Islamic fundamentalism.

I mean they're already at the folk devils stage at least.

[Dumb Ideologies]

If I didn't know better I'd say people were trying to force a moral panic over Islamic fundamentalism.

I mean they're already at the folk devils stage at least.

Concern about antipathy towards integration into British society and about a section of the community that disproportionally adopts radically sexist, homophobic and anti-Semitic beliefs that could be easy to manipulate into violence?

THOSE DAMN RACISTS

[South Park Labourite]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... ions,_2017

Looks like an interesting set of local elections. This round of councils was the year where 'everyone lost except UKIP', so UKIP have to defend a significant sum of their seats if not a plurality.

This is also a far less favourable local election than last year to Labour, particularly as all seats in Scotland are up for grabs and the last local election was in 2012 - before the referendum when Labour was polling ahead of the SNP (hard to believe eh). The Tory councils are also a lot more safer than last year.

West Midlands will really be the one to watch in terms of Mayoral elections - the others are either Labour safes or lean too far towards the Tories that a Labour victory would be a big upset.