UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Dooom35796821595]

Thirty years ago.
Police are very different.
Waste of public funds.

I can see the reasons they rejected an inquiry.

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

I can say waste of money, which is something more important then an inquiry.

Is there any reason relevant to today other then the possibly murky actions of former governments?

[Vassenor]

Thirty years ago.
Police are very different.
Waste of public funds.

I can see the reasons they rejected an inquiry.

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

Also it might make the Thatcher government look bad and there is no worse sin a true Conservative can commit.

[Dooom35796821595]

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

Also it might make the Thatcher government look bad and there is no worse sin a true Conservative can commit.

Look bad? You mean marginally worse, right?

[Imperializt Russia]

I have never liked the dismissal "waste of money".

What is a "waste of money" is rarely objective, often dismissing something the person sneering has absolutely no understanding of (especially with motherfucking by-the-Jesus public science funding), and often ideologically derived.

It relies on an argument of a zero-sum game of funding competing with other sources - and inquiry often cops flak for it, irritatingly - when we're discussing an entity richer than either of us can realistically imagine.

[Vassenor]

It's also funny how there's always "no money" for welfare or the NHS, but there's always conveniently enough for MPs pay rises or whatever white elephant project they want to force through.

[Imperializt Russia]

MPs roundly rejected their pay rises, so I wouldn't have used that example.

[Dooom35796821595]

I have never liked the dismissal "waste of money".

What is a "waste of money" is rarely objective, often dismissing something the person sneering has absolutely no understanding of (especially with motherfucking by-the-Jesus public science funding), and often ideologically derived.

It relies on an argument of a zero-sum game of funding competing with other sources - and inquiry often cops flak for it, irritatingly - when we're discussing an entity richer than either of us can realistically imagine.

It's a waste of money, time, effort. What could possibly be gained from this Inquiry, why is it required 32 years after the fact, why wasn't one done sooner?

And the government always has limits on how much it can spend, an inquiry might not be much but it has to produce some relevant result beyond embarrassing a former government.

It's also funny how there's always "no money" for welfare or the NHS, but there's always conveniently enough for MPs pay rises or whatever white elephant project they want to force through.

Who said no money? I said a waste. A politically motivated waste.

[Valaran]

It's also funny how there's always "no money" for welfare or the NHS, but there's always conveniently enough for MPs pay rises or whatever white elephant project they want to force through.

The Government has actually voted for more money for the NHS, its just not considered (by external analysis) to be sufficient to plug the deficit.

[Valaran]

tbh, if people want a easy goal of needless government funding, well, uh, there is that garden bridge...

I mean, I like it, I just get why its pr is pretty negative.

[Fartsniffage]

I have never liked the dismissal "waste of money".

What is a "waste of money" is rarely objective, often dismissing something the person sneering has absolutely no understanding of (especially with motherfucking by-the-Jesus public science funding), and often ideologically derived.

It relies on an argument of a zero-sum game of funding competing with other sources - and inquiry often cops flak for it, irritatingly - when we're discussing an entity richer than either of us can realistically imagine.

It's a waste of money, time, effort. What could possibly be gained from this Inquiry, why is it required 32 years after the fact, why wasn't one done sooner?

And the government always has limits on how much it can spend, an inquiry might not be much but it has to produce some relevant result beyond embarrassing a former government.

It's also funny how there's always "no money" for welfare or the NHS, but there's always conveniently enough for MPs pay rises or whatever white elephant project they want to force through.

Who said no money? I said a waste. A politically motivated waste.

If officers committed perjury then charges could be brought. If still living commanders covered this up then charges could be brought. I'm completely down with the idea that past misdeed can come back to haunt public officials, might make them think twice before doing stupid shit....

[Ostroeuropa]

It's a waste of money, time, effort. What could possibly be gained from this Inquiry, why is it required 32 years after the fact, why wasn't one done sooner?

And the government always has limits on how much it can spend, an inquiry might not be much but it has to produce some relevant result beyond embarrassing a former government.



Who said no money? I said a waste. A politically motivated waste.

If officers committed perjury then charges could be brought. If still living commanders covered this up then charges could be brought. I'm completely down with the idea that past misdeed can come back to haunt public officials, might make them think twice before doing stupid shit....

I'm more concerned with compensation due to victims than handing out sentences. I'd be down with immunity agreements to anyone who testifies in order to make the inquiry actually useful for once instead of just one massive vague "Maybe maybe not no comment" session. Then we might be able to actually establish who was wronged.

[Fartsniffage]

If officers committed perjury then charges could be brought. If still living commanders covered this up then charges could be brought. I'm completely down with the idea that past misdeed can come back to haunt public officials, might make them think twice before doing stupid shit....

I'm more concerned with compensation due to victims than handing out sentences. I'd be down with immunity agreements to anyone who testifies in order to make the inquiry actually useful for once instead of just one massive vague "Maybe maybe not no comment" session. Then we might be able to actually establish who was wronged.

I'm not. I'd like them to get compensation for past wrongs but I'd prefer that other wrongs don't happen in the future.

We allow the government to have a huge amount of power and I'd very much like them to see that as a responsibility rather than a way to further their own ends.

[Ifreann]

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

I can say waste of money, which is something more important then an inquiry.

Is there any reason relevant to today other then the possibly murky actions of former governments?

Yeah, can't they just leave Jimmy Saville to rest in peace?

[Souseiseki]

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?

I can say waste of money, which is something more important then an inquiry.

Is there any reason relevant to today other then the possibly murky actions of former governments?

was there a reason to have a hillsborough inquiry other than to murky the actions of former governments? was there a reason to have a bloody sunday inquiry other than to murky the actions of former governments?

[Ostroeuropa]

Why don't we have an inquiry into stuff like how there hasn't been a single conviction for female genital mutilation?

It's more contemporary, and an ongoing issue. I don't see any rioting miners around, do you?

I guess they might be worried that once again it will reveal the damage multiculturalism and the left wing have done to this country. (And indeed, Europe in general.)

God forbid we focus on stuff like rapes and mutilations before riot control though.

[Souseiseki]

Why don't we have an inquiry into stuff like how there hasn't been a single conviction for female genital mutilation?

It's more contemporary, and an ongoing issue. I don't see any rioting miners around, do you?

I guess they might be worried that once again it will reveal the damage multiculturalism and the left wing have done to this country. (And indeed, Europe in general.)

God forbid we focus on stuff like rapes and mutilations before riot control though.

one discussion without going off into a rant about multiculturalism and the left. one discussion. one.

[Ostroeuropa]

Why don't we have an inquiry into stuff like how there hasn't been a single conviction for female genital mutilation?

It's more contemporary, and an ongoing issue. I don't see any rioting miners around, do you?

I guess they might be worried that once again it will reveal the damage multiculturalism and the left wing have done to this country. (And indeed, Europe in general.)

God forbid we focus on stuff like rapes and mutilations before riot control though.

one discussion without going off into a rant about multiculturalism and the left. one discussion. one.

It's probably the most important issue at the moment, and polls reflect my concerns about immigration and such. I'm merely providing perspective here. You're criticizing thatcher era police for being too heavy handed.

Answer me this.

If you could have teleported the hillsborough police to rotherham, would you?

Pretending the police are heavy handed is nonsense. They are toothless cowards at this time. We do not need an inquiry. I've changed my mind again. Listening to the lefts constant complaining about stuff like this has crippled our ability to maintain order and protect our citizens.

[Souseiseki]

one discussion without going off into a rant about multiculturalism and the left. one discussion. one.

It's probably the most important issue at the moment, and polls reflect my concerns about immigration and such. I'm merely providing perspective here. You're criticizing thatcher era police for being too heavy handed.

much like the child sexual abuse inquiry we do not accept "but that was years ago!" as a valid reason not to look into it

If you could have teleported the hillsborough police to rotherham, would you?

what?

[Ostroeuropa]

It's probably the most important issue at the moment, and polls reflect my concerns about immigration and such. I'm merely providing perspective here. You're criticizing thatcher era police for being too heavy handed.

much like the child sexual abuse inquiry we do not accept "but that was years ago!" as a valid reason not to look into it

If you could have teleported the hillsborough police to rotherham, would you?

what?

My point is that the left has been attacking cops for decades, and the result is that they are now incapable of properly doing their jobs to the point where society is held together through politeness and spit.

I'd rather have the old police back, cavalry charges and all, than have to deal with shit like rotherham. An inquiry would just be yet another round of the left screaming cops into a state of inaction that ultimately leads to worse shit.

[Souseiseki]

much like the child sexual abuse inquiry we do not accept "but that was years ago!" as a valid reason not to look into it



what?

My point is that the left has been attacking cops for decades, and the result is that they are now incapable of properly doing their jobs to the point where society is held together through politeness and spit.

I'd rather have the old police back, cavalry charges and all, than have to deal with shit like rotherham. An inquiry would just be yet another round of the left screaming cops into a state of inaction that ultimately leads to worse shit.

yeah the old police would never cover up child rape

[Ifreann]

My point is that the left has been attacking cops for decades, and the result is that they are now incapable of properly doing their jobs to the point where society is held together through politeness and spit.

I'd rather have the old police back, cavalry charges and all, than have to deal with shit like rotherham. An inquiry would just be yet another round of the left screaming cops into a state of inaction that ultimately leads to worse shit.

yeah the old police would never cover up child rape

If only people would stop investigating the past, then we could believe that.

[Ostroeuropa]

My point is that the left has been attacking cops for decades, and the result is that they are now incapable of properly doing their jobs to the point where society is held together through politeness and spit.

I'd rather have the old police back, cavalry charges and all, than have to deal with shit like rotherham. An inquiry would just be yet another round of the left screaming cops into a state of inaction that ultimately leads to worse shit.

yeah the old police would never cover up child rape

Corruption is a different beast to cowardice and not wanting to upset a bunch of activists. I'd be all for an inquiry into corruption and such. Just none on police brutality anymore, until it's an actual problem in this country compared to police inaction.

[Souseiseki]

yeah the old police would never cover up child rape

Corruption is a different beast to cowardice and not wanting to upset a bunch of activists. I'd be all for an inquiry into corruption and such. Just none on poice brutality anymore, until it's an actual fucking problem in this country compared to police inaction.

so you'd prefer a corrupt violent police to a "soft" police? (ignoring the whole sweeping new powers and countless new crimes issue, except actually don't, because you don't have the luxury of getting to do that)

i'm still not buying the "but it was ages ago" argument btw

[Fartsniffage]

I can say waste of money, which is something more important then an inquiry.

Is there any reason relevant to today other then the possibly murky actions of former governments?

Yeah, can't they just leave Jimmy Saville to rest in peace?

Fucking brutal....

[Ostroeuropa]

Corruption is a different beast to cowardice and not wanting to upset a bunch of activists. I'd be all for an inquiry into corruption and such. Just none on poice brutality anymore, until it's an actual fucking problem in this country compared to police inaction.

so you'd prefer a corrupt violent police to a soft police? (ignoring the whole sweeping new powers and countless new crimes issue, except actually don't, because you don't have the luxury of getting to do that)

There's going to be violence either way. At least the cops aren't violent to enforce a particular ideology on me.

Would you rather your town had violent cops, or violent islamic fundamentalists who nobody would do shit to stop?

Yeh. Me too.