UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Wat?

There's consistent attempts from sections of the left to demean white people, the west, and any and all accomplishments of european civilization, or appropriate them if possible, and Vassenor apparently hangs out with these people, so he'll come out with stuff like this on occasion. You've just got to lower your expectations and you won't be surprised when they start saying this stuff.

You can think it's a big problem, or you can think its irrelevant and these types can be ignored, but that's what's going on here and why you'll see bizarre claims like this surfacing.

I don't think vassenor made it up. I think they just listen and believe. I also don't think he'll take this moment to wonder if the sources he uses might have a racist agenda.

I have a feeling that I'll see the 'celts were black' argument, which would amuse me immensely.

[Ostroeuropa]

There's consistent attempts from sections of the left to demean white people, the west, and any and all accomplishments of european civilization, or appropriate them if possible, and Vassenor apparently hangs out with these people, so he'll come out with stuff like this on occasion. You've just got to lower your expectations and you won't be surprised when they start saying this stuff.

You can think it's a big problem, or you can think its irrelevant and these types can be ignored, but that's what's going on here and why you'll see bizarre claims like this surfacing.

I don't think vassenor made it up. I think they just listen and believe. I also don't think he'll take this moment to wonder if the sources he uses might have a racist agenda.

I have a feeling that I'll see the 'celts were black' argument, which would amuse me immensely.

It's a good one, I couldn't tell if it was a poe first time I saw it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Wonder how the far rightists would react to being told St George was a black Palestinian.

But that's not even slighty accu-

No, let's not bother. I'm just going to wallow in regret that the facepalm smiley is not there anymore.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I have a feeling that I'll see the 'celts were black' argument, which would amuse me immensely.

It's a good one, I couldn't tell if it was a poe first time I saw it.

So did I, then I found out that people actually believe it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Wonder how the far rightists would react to being told St George was a black Palestinian.

But that's not even slighty accu-

No, let's not bother. I'm just going to wallow in regret that the facepalm smiley is not there anymore.

WHAT!?! *checks smiley list*

...
Time for another 500 page general thread whining about the mods.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Wonder how the far rightists would react to being told St George was a black Palestinian.

But that's not even slighty accu-

No, let's not bother. I'm just going to wallow in regret that the facepalm smiley is not there anymore.

I'm just wondering, how would a Black Palestinian even make his way to England.

[Ostroeuropa]

But that's not even slighty accu-

No, let's not bother. I'm just going to wallow in regret that the facepalm smiley is not there anymore.

I'm just wondering, how would a Black Palestinian even make his way to England.

Easily enough pre-mohammed i'd wager, provided they were clergy. After that it might get more difficult. I'm not sure how much contact the church maintained with clergy in islamic countries.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I'm just wondering, how would a Black Palestinian even make his way to England.

Easily enough pre-mohammed i'd wager, provided they were clergy. After that it might get more difficult.

True...

[Souseiseki]

Wat?

There's consistent attempts from sections of the left to demean white people, the west, and any and all accomplishments of european civilization, or appropriate them if possible, and Vassenor apparently hangs out with these people, so he'll come out with stuff like this on occasion. You've just got to lower your expectations around progressives and you won't be surprised when they start saying this stuff.

You can think it's a big problem, or you can think its irrelevant and these types can be ignored, but that's what's going on here and why you'll see bizarre claims like this surfacing.

I don't think vassenor made it up. I think they just listen and believe. I also don't think he'll take this moment to wonder if the sources he uses might have a racist agenda. Again, whether you think that agenda is important to fight against or whether it's a sideshow is irrelevant, that's what's going on here. I think it's important, some others think it's not.

it's not about undermining european white civilization yadda yadda.

it's funny because of the juxtaposition between a group that is assumed to not be a fan of X and the possibility that an object of their veneration might be X.

that's it.

everything beyond that is a misunderstanding of the specifics of the case, again, not a concentrated effort to undermine the west. i will grant you that sometimes people say things like to deliberately mock or undermine that popular modern perception of places like the roman empire as lily-white civilizations, but again, that's annoyance at an actual misconception not at attempt to establish the historical legitimacy of black caeser.

[Kamaste]

I'd need to see some evidence, i'm not aware of it, but if it were the case, then yes, probably. I'd also need to see statistics on their social attitudes and crime rates and such. I don't hide the fact that i'm opposed to immigration from communities that are opposed to LGBT rights and gender equality.

So that rules out the USA, Ireland and Eastern Europe, at a minimum.

Ireland is not anti LGBT or anti gender equality?

[Ostroeuropa]

There's consistent attempts from sections of the left to demean white people, the west, and any and all accomplishments of european civilization, or appropriate them if possible, and Vassenor apparently hangs out with these people, so he'll come out with stuff like this on occasion. You've just got to lower your expectations around progressives and you won't be surprised when they start saying this stuff.

You can think it's a big problem, or you can think its irrelevant and these types can be ignored, but that's what's going on here and why you'll see bizarre claims like this surfacing.

I don't think vassenor made it up. I think they just listen and believe. I also don't think he'll take this moment to wonder if the sources he uses might have a racist agenda. Again, whether you think that agenda is important to fight against or whether it's a sideshow is irrelevant, that's what's going on here. I think it's important, some others think it's not.

it's not about undermining european white civilization yadda yadda.

it's funny because of the juxtaposition between a group that is assumed to not be a fan of X and the possibility that an object of their veneration might be X.

that's it.

everything beyond that is a misunderstanding of the specifics of the case, again, not a concentrated effort to undermine the west. i will grant you that sometimes people say things like to deliberately mock or undermine that popular modern perception of places like the roman empire as lily-white civilizations, but again, that's annoyance at an actual misconception not at attempt to establish the historical legitimacy of black caeser.

I didn't consider they might be joking. Poes law I suppose.

[South Park Labourite]

Britain's already had a black leader already you know - Septimus Severus. At the same time the ancestors of David Cameron were fucking pigs.

EDIT: Also stopped the Germanic and Pictish immigrants.

[Ostroeuropa]

Britain's already had a black leader already you know - Septimus Severus. At the same time the ancestors of David Cameron were fucking pigs.

Yep, I can't recall how many, but a number of emperors were ethnic minorities.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Britain's already had a black leader already you know - Septimus Severus. At the same time the ancestors of David Cameron were fucking pigs.

EDIT: Also stopped the Germanic and Pictish immigrants.

Hey he rebuilt Hadrian's wall, "Make Britain Great Again".

[South Park Labourite]

Britain's already had a black leader already you know - Septimus Severus. At the same time the ancestors of David Cameron were fucking pigs.

Yep, I can't recall how many, but a number of emperors were ethnic minorities.

Phillip the Arab (titular), Maximinus Thrax (Dacian), Decius (Illyrian) etc. Quite impressive in a sense. You actually get few Emperors from Rome itself - even many of the Italian Emperors were from origins such as Sabine ones (Vespasian's lineage onwards).

[Minzerland II]

Britain's already had a black leader already you know - Septimus Severus. At the same time the ancestors of David Cameron were fucking pigs.

EDIT: Also stopped the Germanic and Pictish immigrants.

Was he black? I thought he was Punic with Roman and Libyan mixed in.

[Vassenor]

Wat?

There's consistent attempts from sections of the left to demean white people, the west, and any and all accomplishments of european civilization, or appropriate them if possible, and Vassenor apparently hangs out with these people, so he'll come out with stuff like this on occasion. You've just got to lower your expectations around progressives and you won't be surprised when they start saying this stuff.

You can think it's a big problem, or you can think its irrelevant and these types can be ignored, but that's what's going on here and why you'll see bizarre claims like this surfacing.

I don't think vassenor made it up. I think they just listen and believe. I also don't think they'll take this moment to wonder if the sources he uses might have a racist agenda. Again, whether you think that agenda is important to fight against or whether it's a sideshow is irrelevant, that's what's going on here. I think it's important, some others think it's not.

Ignoring where we already discussed this, including the errors in what I said, and no-one got angry at any point.

[Vassenor]

But that's not even slighty accu-

No, let's not bother. I'm just going to wallow in regret that the facepalm smiley is not there anymore.

I'm just wondering, how would a Black Palestinian even make his way to England.

Flicking through Wikipedia, there's nothing in the legend to suggest that George of Lydda ever actually came to the British Isles at all.

[Valaran]

It seems to me that these are not just ideological decisions but vital strategic decisions.

Oh sure. Its just the closest I could get to any ideological stances expressed in the debate.

Alternatively, if it is going to be a fringe party aimed at reframing the debate rather than winning elections, what are its issues? Is there actually a viable community of thought inside the party or is it too fragmented on any question other than the EU? People call UKIP an anti-immigration party but they are not even united on that: Carswell is on record as being in favour of immigration.

One might term the party mainstream as being anti-immigration; Carswell is relatively isolated in his views. Other than that, they are indeed pretty fragmented.

Is the niqab the ninja postbox one? Pretty hard to integrate wearing that - I can see the logic. What is the deal with kippers defending Trump? It's like a crap internet meme standing for President.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised that they are taking a stance on this (and taking a leaf out of French politics, where this has become a touchstone issue).

They like Trump because he's not totally averse to their general leanings - on immigration, protectionism, anti-EU, support of authoritarianism, etc. This is UKIP we're talking about, after all...

[Imperializt Russia]

is this a passive way of saying you're ok with police conduct during orgreave or are you just making an irreverent joke

What would it prove?
It's just an attempt to generate a news cycle about how evil tories are and the poor miners.
Everyone already knows what happened those days.

The labour party shouldn't demanding the government use public funds as PR for their group.

By all means, a victim of the police misconduct can and should sue and we'll deal with it that way, but an inquiry is pointless.

The point of an inquiry is to establish the facts.

This would allow people to sue where appropriate.
I suspect you greatly underappreciate the point of inquiry.

[Vassenor]

Trying to remember if one of my lecturers was there or not. I know they talked about being bussed in to deal with strikers, but it might have been at a different site.

[Ostroeuropa]

What would it prove?
It's just an attempt to generate a news cycle about how evil tories are and the poor miners.
Everyone already knows what happened those days.

The labour party shouldn't demanding the government use public funds as PR for their group.

By all means, a victim of the police misconduct can and should sue and we'll deal with it that way, but an inquiry is pointless.

The point of an inquiry is to establish the facts.

This would allow people to sue where appropriate.
I suspect you greatly underappreciate the point of inquiry.

If an inquiry would assist with compensations due, I suppose I have to change my mind.

[Imperializt Russia]

The point of an inquiry is to establish the facts.

This would allow people to sue where appropriate.
I suspect you greatly underappreciate the point of inquiry.

If an inquiry would assist with compensations due, I suppose I have to change my mind.

To sue you still need evidence, and there aren't really the mechanisms to do that in civil court.

This is where, in the instance of large-scale incidents like this, inquiry comes in.

[Dooom35796821595]

What would it prove?
It's just an attempt to generate a news cycle about how evil tories are and the poor miners.
Everyone already knows what happened those days.

The labour party shouldn't demanding the government use public funds as PR for their group.

By all means, a victim of the police misconduct can and should sue and we'll deal with it that way, but an inquiry is pointless.

The point of an inquiry is to establish the facts.

This would allow people to sue where appropriate.
I suspect you greatly underappreciate the point of inquiry.

Thirty years ago.
Police are very different.
Waste of public funds.

I can see the reasons they rejected an inquiry.

[Imperializt Russia]

The point of an inquiry is to establish the facts.

This would allow people to sue where appropriate.
I suspect you greatly underappreciate the point of inquiry.

Thirty years ago.
Police are very different.
Waste of public funds.

I can see the reasons they rejected an inquiry.

The government is saying that it would be a waste of government ("""public""") funds to launch an inquiry into what amount to government activities in the past that were very divisive and information continually comes out about and the government continually looks worse for it.

Can you say, conflict of interest?