UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Wolfmanne2]

Quick reminder to Valystria and Ostroeuropa.

By the way, the respectable Tories I know generally prefer reading The Times or the Daily Telegraph. You'll find few who purport to read the Daily Mail, no idea why the alt-right has rallied around it.

Outright misinformation. You disregard that the Daily Mail is the most popular paper to read in Britain. You use your arbitrary subjective to only include Tories you find "respectable" by your standards and only yours. When someone relies on assertions based on subjectivity, it's not a good sign. Your claims don't stand up to the evidence.

https://www.psa.ac.uk/insight-plus/memb ... tive-party’s-rank-and-file

On the contrary, you'll find that 37 per cent read the Daily Telegraph in contrast to about 20 per cent who read the Daily Mail, 17% who read The Times and 3% who read The Sun.[/url] All in all, about 54% of the Conservative Party membership read a broadsheet right-wing newspaper and 23% read a tabloid right-wing newspaper.

I think of it like this, as someone who is involved in partisan politics deeply: if I was Tory parliamentary researcher or MP, would I really pick the Daily Mail over the Daily Telegraph or The Sun over The Times? The Daily Mail and The Sun have their place, but if I want hear intellectual viewpoints of my own world view (still as a Tory) I would not go to the Daily Mail or The Sun which seems to consist of mere moral outrage and populism.

[Lamadia III]

where is Yorkshire?

Also, speaking of, since Brexit, God's own country is going to be even worse off.

I mean it gets hardly any money from Westminster (which May's government wa not democratically elected. Do I smell hypocrisy with regards to Brussels which is democratically elected? I think I do).

Brexit was the worst decision for the UK.

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

[The Nihilistic view]

where is Yorkshire?

Also, speaking of, since Brexit, God's own country is going to be even worse off.

I mean it gets hardly any money from Westminster (which May's government wa not democratically elected. Do I smell hypocrisy with regards to Brussels which is democratically elected? I think I do).

Brexit was the worst decision for the UK.

By that standard no government in the history of the world is democratically elected.

[Eastfield Lodge]

where is Yorkshire?

Also, speaking of, since Brexit, God's own country is going to be even worse off.

I mean it gets hardly any money from Westminster (which May's government wa not democratically elected. Do I smell hypocrisy with regards to Brussels which is democratically elected? I think I do).

Brexit was the worst decision for the UK.

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

[Eastfield Lodge]

where is Yorkshire?

Also, speaking of, since Brexit, God's own country is going to be even worse off.

I mean it gets hardly any money from Westminster (which May's government wa not democratically elected. Do I smell hypocrisy with regards to Brussels which is democratically elected? I think I do).

Brexit was the worst decision for the UK.

By that standard no government in the history of the world is democratically elected.

Russia?

[Ifreann]

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

The people never choose the PM.

[Lamadia III]

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

I don't know how much you know about UK politics, but we do not elect a PM. We vote for a Party- the Conservative Party won the election, and therefore the Government, regardless who heads it, has been elected. Therefore, the Government is 100% elected.

[The Nihilistic view]

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

Nobody chooses the PM. They choose their local representative based on both their indervidual qualities and the manifesto they represent.

No PM has been chosen by the people, only by their own constituency.

[Celritannia]

where is Yorkshire?

The north-east of England.

Bravo XD

I know where it is geography wise, I mean why is it missing from the poll XD

[Souseiseki]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

[Eastfield Lodge]

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

I don't know how much you know about UK politics, but we do not elect a PM. We vote for a Party- the Conservative Party won the election, and therefore the Government, regardless who heads it, has been elected. Therefore, the Government is 100% elected.

Well, we do, just indirectly. And let's be honest, a lot of a party's appeal comes to the party leader, i.e the candidate for PM. Just look at Labour.

[Wolfmanne2]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

Irrelevant to me.

[Celritannia]

where is Yorkshire?

Also, speaking of, since Brexit, God's own country is going to be even worse off.

I mean it gets hardly any money from Westminster (which May's government wa not democratically elected. Do I smell hypocrisy with regards to Brussels which is democratically elected? I think I do).

Brexit was the worst decision for the UK.

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

And that's the problem with no separation between Executive and Legislature.

[Napkiraly]

Theresa May was elected as an MP, everybody in her Cabinet was elected as an MP, she has the backing of a majority of her MPs which were elected, and polls show a strong support for her administration.
How was her government not democratically elected?

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

Democratic mandate is with the elected governing party and continued confidence of the House of Commons, not the leader of said party.

IIRC you still don't even have to legally be an MP in order to be the PM, it's just a political convention that they be an MP and most today would find it politically impossible to have a PM who is not in the HoC.

[The Nihilistic view]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

0 out of 100. I prefer representative constitutional democracy over a presidential style. As long as the leader is elected under the system in some way I'm cool.

[Wolfmanne2]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

0 out of 100. I prefer representative constitutional democracy over a presidential style. As long as the leader is elected under the system in some way I'm cool.

Parliamentary democracy with First Past the Post 4lyfe.

[Olivaero]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

Very important, and it's a travesty we don't get to. And I don't give one tuppenny fuck about the fact that we have a tradition of not doing so.

[Ifreann]

0 out of 100. I prefer representative constitutional democracy over a presidential style. As long as the leader is elected under the system in some way I'm cool.

Parliamentary democracy with First Past the Post 4lyfe.

That's not how you spell "PRSTV".

[Eastfield Lodge]

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

Democratic mandate is with the elected governing party and continued confidence of the House of Commons, not the leader of said party.

IIRC you still don't even have to legally be an MP in order to be the PM, it's just a political convention that they be an MP and most today would find it politically impossible to have a PM who is not in the HoC.

To be fair, it's not something that I have a real opinion on, my comment wasn't that serious.

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

Very important, and it's a travesty we don't get to. And I don't give one tupenny fuck about the fact that we have a tradition of not doing so.

Why do you prize it so?

[Napkiraly]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

Government or state?

[Celritannia]

Because the people didn't choose her as PM?

Also, I thought you opposed Brown's legitimacy?

Nobody chooses the PM. They choose their local representative based on both their indervidual qualities and the manifesto they represent.

No PM has been chosen by the people, only by their own constituency.

Which is highly undemocratic. MPs should represent their constituencies and the executive should only be concerned over executing laws the legislature votes upon.

The opposition is for Parliament to nominate the PM and the public vote on which leader we wish to have. That way it is half democratic and half meritocratic.

[Wolfmanne2]

Parliamentary democracy with First Past the Post 4lyfe.

That's not how you spell "PRSTV".

This is why Irish independence is a disaster. Rejoin the union.

[Vassenor]

But he's literally going HOW DARE THEY NOT DO WHAT I WANT.

No he's saying "How dare they do something for which many Brexit campaigners championed and which many supporters support". He's not the only person to have advocated the points-based system and it's perfectly legitimate of him to criticize May's position.

I mean none of us are elected and we certainly get miffed when they government doesn't do what we think is right or want and vocalize it.

The fact is there are more important issues facing the country in this regard than just how we're keeping the dirty foreigners out.

[Valaran]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

meh.

[Souseiseki]

to what extent do you guys prize directly electing the leader in democracy

random question

Government or state?

government