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UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which of the following do you want to keep post-Brexit

Freedom of Movement
31
13%
Single Market Access
62
25%
Both of the Above
102
41%
Neither of the Above
53
21%
 
Total votes : 248

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Souseiseki
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Posts: 18093
Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:16 pm

Questers wrote:Your illegal fetishes definitely constitute dangerous socialism.


it's only illegal for women tbh
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Imperializt Russia
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Posts: 54792
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:17 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Questers wrote:Your illegal fetishes definitely constitute dangerous socialism.


it's only illegal for women tbh

Just as the bible intended.
Warning! This poster has:
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Questers
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:17 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Questers wrote:Your illegal fetishes definitely constitute dangerous socialism.


it's only illegal for women tbh
as long as he doesn't squirt
Restore the Crown

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Irona
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Dec 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Irona » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:22 pm

Questers wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
it's only illegal for women tbh
as long as he doesn't squirt

I'm incredibly uncomfortable right now

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129803
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:29 pm

Irona wrote:
Questers wrote: as long as he doesn't squirt

I'm incredibly uncomfortable right now

The properly British way to feel.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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With his kiss
the riot
starts

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Questers
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:33 pm

Irona wrote:
Questers wrote: as long as he doesn't squirt

I'm incredibly uncomfortable right now
You don't have to be involved. I'm sure Samoz can squirt without your help.
Restore the Crown

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Imperializt Russia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:51 pm

Too many cooks, etc.
Warning! This poster has:
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129803
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:05 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:Too many cooks, etc.

But many hands, etc.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 50683
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 pm

Souseiseki wrote: i'm still lolling over this btw


(From previous thread, quote edited it in here.)

Yeh, okay, so she's my waifu. We just didn't want anyone dismissing her arguments because of it. Since she moved in we've realized our situation is pretty good.


Wolfmanne;
Get a job!


One of us has a part time job. The other is disabled and does charity work when able to do so, ranging from domestic violence, to animal care, to mental health.

As a matter of fact, the government is so fucking shit at fulfilling its supposed obligations on two of these, and basically relies on people like me to do it for them, that they may as well just employ me anyway. It doesn't even fucking bother with the animal care, but I get that, it doesn't pretend to. The other two though? Fuck me, what a trainwreck.

You call it scrounging. I call it collecting my paycheck for shit they're supposed to be doing and failing spectacularly at and then leaving me and others to pick up the pieces. And it's a modest wage.

Don't give me the moral pretensions. When bureaucracies fail, this is the kind of shit that happens.

I'm not saying any more about it.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Olivaero
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Posts: 8012
Founded: Jun 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Olivaero » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:39 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Souseiseki wrote: i'm still lolling over this btw


(From previous thread, quote edited it in here.)

Yeh, okay, so she's my waifu. We just didn't want anyone dismissing her arguments because of it. Since she moved in we've realized our situation is pretty good.


Wolfmanne;
Get a job!


One of us has a part time job. The other is disabled and does charity work when able to do so, ranging from domestic violence, to animal care, to mental health.

As a matter of fact, the government is so fucking shit at fulfilling its supposed obligations on two of these, and basically relies on people like me to do it for them, that they may as well just employ me anyway. It doesn't even fucking bother with the animal care, but I get that, it doesn't pretend to. The other two though? Fuck me, what a trainwreck.

You call it scrounging. I call it collecting my paycheck for shit they're supposed to be doing and failing spectacularly at and then leaving me and others to pick up the pieces. And it's a modest wage.

Don't give me the moral pretensions. When bureaucracies fail, this is the kind of shit that happens.

I'm not saying any more about it.

The response was as sweet as I imagined :clap:
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Transhumanist, Left Hegelian, Marxist, Communist.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 50683
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:49 pm

Olivaero wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
(From previous thread, quote edited it in here.)

Yeh, okay, so she's my waifu. We just didn't want anyone dismissing her arguments because of it. Since she moved in we've realized our situation is pretty good.


Wolfmanne;


One of us has a part time job. The other is disabled and does charity work when able to do so, ranging from domestic violence, to animal care, to mental health.

As a matter of fact, the government is so fucking shit at fulfilling its supposed obligations on two of these, and basically relies on people like me to do it for them, that they may as well just employ me anyway. It doesn't even fucking bother with the animal care, but I get that, it doesn't pretend to. The other two though? Fuck me, what a trainwreck.

You call it scrounging. I call it collecting my paycheck for shit they're supposed to be doing and failing spectacularly at and then leaving me and others to pick up the pieces. And it's a modest wage.

Don't give me the moral pretensions. When bureaucracies fail, this is the kind of shit that happens.

I'm not saying any more about it.

The response was as sweet as I imagined :clap:


It irks me because I specifically do this kind of stuff because i'm well aware its immoral to go around not contributing to society when you can.
But what am i supposed to do?
How many employers are going to be fine with me calling up and saying "Yeh, I'm not coming in today because reasons."

I'd like a normal job. Maybe. Probably not, because this has become something i'm invested in now. But I can't get one, so that's that. It's not like I planned my life out deciding to not advance up the ladder and just gulping down the trickle down piss.
Hence the saving and investing.

But apparently that's wrong.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Olivaero
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8012
Founded: Jun 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Olivaero » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:00 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Olivaero wrote:The response was as sweet as I imagined :clap:


It irks me because I specifically do this kind of stuff because i'm well aware its immoral to go around not contributing to society when you can.
But what am i supposed to do?
How many employers are going to be fine with me calling up and saying "Yeh, I'm not coming in today because reasons."

I know this, I agree with it as well but to me what does and doesnt contribute are difficult to define terms and i think the individual not the state should decide how they want to contribute. Charity is an excellent way. But the arts, studying society and giving young people fresh expierences i life are all other things off the top of my head that people could do too. Thats why i dont support the government sanctioning wellfare so very hastily. Not only do i disagree with it on a philosophical level I disagree with it on a pratical level. An individual is capable of so very much with the right education and right socialisation, being unemployed does not mean an individual is useless. On the contrary the indivdual has greater capacity than when they are working because they are not bound by the profit seeking guidance of others. The only way out of this dilemma as i see it is self employment.
Last edited by Olivaero on Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
British, Anglo Celtic, English, Northerner.

Transhumanist, Left Hegelian, Marxist, Communist.

Agnostic Theist, Culturally Christian.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 50683
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:03 pm

Olivaero wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
It irks me because I specifically do this kind of stuff because i'm well aware its immoral to go around not contributing to society when you can.
But what am i supposed to do?
How many employers are going to be fine with me calling up and saying "Yeh, I'm not coming in today because reasons."

I know this, I agree with it as well but to me what does and doesnt contribute are difficult to define terms and i think the individual not the state should decide how they want to contribute. Charity is an excellent way. But the arts, studying society and giving young people fresh expierences i life are all other things off the top of my head that people could do too. Thats why i dont support the government sanctioning wellfare so very hastily. Not only do i disagree with it on a philosophical level I disagree with it on a pratical level. An individual is capable of so very much with the right education and right socialisation, being unemployed does not mean an individual is useless. On the contrary the indivdual has greater capacity than when they are working because they are not bound by the profit seeking guidance of others. The only way out of this dilemma as i see it is self employment.


Agreed, and Beyond that, i'd say being employed doesn't necessarily mean you contribute to society either.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Val Halla
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Posts: 38977
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Val Halla » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:05 pm

There's plenty of methods of employment that contribute nothing to society

Bus guards
Athletes
Politicians

Etc
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Olivaero
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8012
Founded: Jun 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Olivaero » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Olivaero wrote:I know this, I agree with it as well but to me what does and doesnt contribute are difficult to define terms and i think the individual not the state should decide how they want to contribute. Charity is an excellent way. But the arts, studying society and giving young people fresh expierences i life are all other things off the top of my head that people could do too. Thats why i dont support the government sanctioning wellfare so very hastily. Not only do i disagree with it on a philosophical level I disagree with it on a pratical level. An individual is capable of so very much with the right education and right socialisation, being unemployed does not mean an individual is useless. On the contrary the indivdual has greater capacity than when they are working because they are not bound by the profit seeking guidance of others. The only way out of this dilemma as i see it is self employment.


Agreed, and Beyond that, i'd say being employed doesn't necessarily mean you contribute to society either.

True.
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Transhumanist, Left Hegelian, Marxist, Communist.

Agnostic Theist, Culturally Christian.

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Olivaero
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Ex-Nation

Postby Olivaero » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:15 pm

Val Halla wrote:There's plenty of methods of employment that contribute nothing to society

Bus guards
Athletes
Politicians

Etc

Politicians jobs are required. Even an anarchy would require some form of governance some one to articulate the discourse and even embrace a leadership position when required and when agreed upon. Its just our system of government is poorly put together to select for honesty.
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Val Halla
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Posts: 38977
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Val Halla » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:22 pm

Olivaero wrote:
Val Halla wrote:There's plenty of methods of employment that contribute nothing to society

Bus guards
Athletes
Politicians

Etc

Politicians jobs are required. Even an anarchy would require some form of governance some one to articulate the discourse and even embrace a leadership position when required and when agreed upon. Its just our system of government is poorly put together to select for honesty.

Most politicians do fuck all.
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Olivaero
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Founded: Jun 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Olivaero » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:28 pm

Val Halla wrote:
Olivaero wrote:Politicians jobs are required. Even an anarchy would require some form of governance some one to articulate the discourse and even embrace a leadership position when required and when agreed upon. Its just our system of government is poorly put together to select for honesty.

Most politicians do fuck all.

Theres a period where they do things usualy whilst their in the HoC but yeah when they move up to the HoL its essentially retirement with perks. But the HoL is a shit idea anyway. The position of MP is a fairly important one though.
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:29 pm

Olivaero wrote:
Val Halla wrote:There's plenty of methods of employment that contribute nothing to society

Bus guards
Athletes
Politicians

Etc

Politicians jobs are required. Even an anarchy would require some form of governance some one to articulate the discourse and even embrace a leadership position when required and when agreed upon. Its just our system of government is poorly put together to select for honesty.


I've already suggested a sortition system for the second house which would fuck over the government and return power to the people, but I also think the ballot should be required to have a purge option as the peoples stick.

A sort of super none-of-the-above.

If it wins, all the parties in existence are dissolved and their assets seized, and all the candidates on the ballot are banned from running for office for the rest of their lives. The election is then reschedhuled to 3 months down the line.

The point is not to use it, but to be a looming threat to the establishment that would grow in popularity if they continue to be shitheels.

I also think a media reform would go a long way. Make it so companies are only legally allowed to advertise in one news org, maximum. Also, all news outlets owned by the same individuals would be required by law to use the same name.

So the sun and daily mail and such would be legally forced to decide on which name to choose to apply to both, to properly make people aware of opinion.

Finally, ban anyone from owning stock in more than one media company. Those currently doing so can have a grace period to trade stocks with eachother.

(I have 2 murdoch empire stocks and one CNN, you have two in CNN and one in murdoch. We swap our ones.)
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Great Nepal
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:38 pm

Answer is obviously Greater London; its ceremonial status is entirely irrelevant.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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The Archregimancy
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Posts: 23142
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:13 am

Alright everyone - enough. Apologies for being a killjoy, but this isn't designed to be a shitposting chat thread.

A bit of banter is fine, of course, but if this is going to turn into a chat thread about alcohol and pie intake rather than a discussion thread about UK politics, it will - with regret - likely be locked and shut down.

So please, try and move onto something slightly more substantive. Even discussion about the relative merits of Rutland and Clackmannanshire would be an improvement over the last few pages.

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Rufford
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Posts: 1109
Founded: Mar 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Rufford » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:23 am

The Archregimancy wrote:Alright everyone - enough. Apologies for being a killjoy, but this isn't designed to be a shitposting chat thread.

A bit of banter is fine, of course, but if this is going to turn into a chat thread about alcohol and pie intake rather than a discussion thread about UK politics, it will - with regret - likely be locked and shut down.

So please, try and move onto something slightly more substantive. Even discussion about the relative merits of Rutland and Clackmannanshire would be an improvement over the last few pages.

I've heard that there's some great trout fishing in Rutland, never been there though. I'd put the bridge in Clackmannanshire on a par with the mighty Humber bridge.
Best cricket bowling figures- 9 for 1 NINE FOR 1
__________
__________
__________

Imperializt Russia wrote: my posts to you will come across as aggressive (mostly because they are).

HMS Vanguard wrote:My observations are ahead of their time
This poster may exhibit a
Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude

And
Lamadia II wrote:hideous socialist, left-wing views

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Rufford
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Posts: 1109
Founded: Mar 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Rufford » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:28 am

Best cricket bowling figures- 9 for 1 NINE FOR 1
__________
__________
__________

Imperializt Russia wrote: my posts to you will come across as aggressive (mostly because they are).

HMS Vanguard wrote:My observations are ahead of their time
This poster may exhibit a
Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude

And
Lamadia II wrote:hideous socialist, left-wing views

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42784
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:31 am

Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Hufflepuff/Team Mystic

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The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23142
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:31 am

Rufford wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:Alright everyone - enough. Apologies for being a killjoy, but this isn't designed to be a shitposting chat thread.

A bit of banter is fine, of course, but if this is going to turn into a chat thread about alcohol and pie intake rather than a discussion thread about UK politics, it will - with regret - likely be locked and shut down.

So please, try and move onto something slightly more substantive. Even discussion about the relative merits of Rutland and Clackmannanshire would be an improvement over the last few pages.

I've heard that there's some great trout fishing in Rutland, never been there though. I'd put the bridge in Clackmannanshire on a par with the mighty Humber bridge.


The Clackmannanshire Bridge isn't in Clackmannanshire - it's in Fife.

It's a slightly odd geographic situation. The north approach road is in Clackmannanshire, and the south approach road is in Falkirk, but the actual span of the bridge is in Fife.

The decision of the Scottish Government to adopt Clackmannanshire Council's suggestion to call it the 'Clackmannanshire Bridge' rather than Fife Council's decision to call it the 'Kingdom Bridge' was clearly* shameless pandering on the part of the SNP, and a deliberate snub of the Fife-based Prime Minister of the day and his then-Labour dominated local council.

See, we can even make discussion of the relative merits of Rutland and Clackmannanshire political if we really try.


*tongue slightly in cheek

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