UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

She's not a feminist, she's just appropriating the language of the movement for her self-benefit.

Absolutely 100% correct.
Or rather, I reported the use of 'bitch' as a slur held by some as a misogynistic term. Personally I see the modern western feminist movement as an entitlement group- something striving for better treatment, rather than equal. With substantial evidence against the wage gap, as well as statistics which show equal female success in areas where there is a heavy woman presence, I view the entire thing as a whiny farce.

Progressive tax, maybe. They do pay more. Discrimination isn't always unjustified (or wrongly justified) in my opinion, but often has been so.
But taxes in general? Of course you treat someone with stuff to be taxed "worse" than someone with nothing at all, unless you think that the modern equivalent of the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat#Usage_in_the_Constitution_of_the_Roman_Republic]
ISIS's natural state is similar to that of the IRA in NI. It just got lucky this time around with failing states.

And because they got 'lucky', we have a different situation on our hands. Totally different to the one in Northern Ireland.

Yes, it is different.
We ought to be undoing ISIS's sudden change in energy and organization levels eventually, barring any surprising turn in the fortunes of anti-ISIS forces, and bringing it back down to the ground state of islamonutbags rushing about and being violent.

[Fartsniffage]

You think the military options in NI actually worked?

You think a domestic war against what is arguably a militia is comparable to a massive terrorist organisation with substantial land & resources in a large part of Iraq, Syria & other areas?
I don't. Neither does the Government, because we didn't conduct airstrikes on small terrace houses in Belfast- we do bomb targets, however, in the Mid. East.

Well yes, it's generally seen as bad form to conduct airstrikes on baddies living nextdoor to your own loyal citizens. But let's not write off the IRA as some parochial militia, they received training from the USSR and funding from all those plastic paddies on the US east coast.

We could have gone in all guns blazing, and did on a couple of occasions. But what won peace was dialogue.

[Ostroeuropa]

You think a domestic war against what is arguably a militia is comparable to a massive terrorist organisation with substantial land & resources in a large part of Iraq, Syria & other areas?
I don't. Neither does the Government, because we didn't conduct airstrikes on small terrace houses in Belfast- we do bomb targets, however, in the Mid. East.

Well yes, it's generally seen as bad form to conduct airstrikes on baddies living nextdoor to your own loyal citizens. But let's not write off the IRA as some parochial militia, they received training from the USSR and funding from all those plastic paddies on the US east coast.

We could have gone in all guns blazing, and did on a couple of occasions. But what won peace was dialogue.

The IRA also had appeasable grievances. ISIS does not. I say that as someone who nominally supports the re-integration of southern ireland.

[South Park Labourite]

Lamadia, you do know this blocking thing is meant to be two-sided? Be a star and please fulfill the requirements as laid out in your ban, ta darling.

[Souseiseki]

Well yes, it's generally seen as bad form to conduct airstrikes on baddies living nextdoor to your own loyal citizens. But let's not write off the IRA as some parochial militia, they received training from the USSR and funding from all those plastic paddies on the US east coast.

We could have gone in all guns blazing, and did on a couple of occasions. But what won peace was dialogue.

The IRA also had appeasable grievances. ISIS does not. I say that as someone who nominally supports the re-integration of southern ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwkEEqXT3uQ

things souseiseki will always post

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

Well yes, it's generally seen as bad form to conduct airstrikes on baddies living nextdoor to your own loyal citizens. But let's not write off the IRA as some parochial militia, they received training from the USSR and funding from all those plastic paddies on the US east coast.

We could have gone in all guns blazing, and did on a couple of occasions. But what won peace was dialogue.

The IRA also had appeasable grievances. ISIS does not. I say that as someone who nominally supports the re-integration of southern ireland.

But is ISIS not being used as a proxy for appeasable grievances? Didn't the Sunnis of western Iraq back it out of fear of Shia ochlocracy in Baghdad?

[Hurdergaryp]

The IRA also had appeasable grievances. ISIS does not. I say that as someone who nominally supports the re-integration of southern ireland.

But is ISIS not being used as a proxy for appeasable grievances? Didn't the Sunnis of western Iraq back it out of fear of Shia ochlocracy in Baghdad?

Are you seriously trying to whitewash a genocidal salafist organization who has slaughtered thousands of unarmed civilians and also systematically destroyed any cultural heritage that happened to have come into existence before the Arabs improvised Islam as their religion after their happy-go-lucky conquests?

[Ostroeuropa]

The IRA also had appeasable grievances. ISIS does not. I say that as someone who nominally supports the re-integration of southern ireland.

But is ISIS not being used as a proxy for appeasable grievances? Didn't the Sunnis of western Iraq back it out of fear of Shia ochlocracy in Baghdad?

That's what gave it a booster shot, but it was always there, and has grown beyond it. The abolition of the baathist party and the declaration all its officials were now either wanted or out of power meant that suddenly everyone who knew dick about governing iraq or organizing a military force or all the local power brokers and gangsters or whatever went into full panic mode, and entered an alliance with religious fundamentalists.

There were always a bunch of know-nothing violent psychopaths and they were growing in influence, but the thing that led to ISIS was handing them a bunch of know-at-least-something authoritarian commu-nazis to command them and teach them basic military shit, shortly before they got murdered and sacrificed to baal or whatever the fuck these people believe in, don't care.

The baathists may have been people we could deal with, but they're dead now, so no, there is no appeasable grievance with ISIS.

I'm not joking about communazi by the way. That's literally the baathist parties entire ethos.

[Salandriagado]

British ISIS member wants to come home; feels ‘homesick’.
Absolutely reasonable, of course. The man was depressed, unhappy, misses his family, misses his home. He doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore; he doesn’t want to execute any more homosexuals, stone any more women, blow up any more hospitals. Which is why I absolutely advocate sending a jet to go an collect him, bring him back to the UK, set up a red carpet & a welcoming party on the runway- with a brass band, and maybe even balloons!
And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon. An absolute tribute to the ‘poor, depressed English teacher’ who just wants to ‘come home’.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion that we should accept and reintegrate these monsters back into society is a farce, and is something the British public will not swallow. Men, and women, who conduct criminal terrorist acts in the name of a twisted and misinterpreted faith, who condemn innocent people to death in the most barbaric means possible, and who pledge to wipe out own societies off the face of the earth, have no place in the West, and must be eradicated. My first action as Prime Minister would be to authorise the extrajudicial killings of UK-born terrorists operating abroad, and to establish a special intelligence committee responsible for tracking anybody with terror links and compiling the appropriate evidence to prosecute, or indeed terminate, them to minimise the risk to the British public.
No negotiation, no sympathy. We must smash terrorism.

How to ensure that the war there never ends. I give you ISIS recruiting material 101, right here.

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

But is ISIS not being used as a proxy for appeasable grievances? Didn't the Sunnis of western Iraq back it out of fear of Shia ochlocracy in Baghdad?

Are you seriously trying to whitewash a genocidal salafist organization who has slaughtered thousands of unarmed civilians and also systematically destroyed any cultural heritage that happened to have come into existence before the Arabs improvised Islam as their religion after their happy-go-lucky conquests?

I wouldn't know.
But I think the problem I mentioned might persist even if ISIS is stripped of its' strongholds.
edit: Reading what Ostro said, I guess a violent prosecution of the conflict will be the only solution likely to succeed.

But is ISIS not being used as a proxy for appeasable grievances? Didn't the Sunnis of western Iraq back it out of fear of Shia ochlocracy in Baghdad?

That's what gave it a booster shot, but it was always there, and has grown beyond it. The abolition of the baathist party and the declaration all its officials were now either wanted or out of power meant that suddenly everyone who knew dick about governing iraq or organizing a military force or all the local power brokers and gangsters or whatever went into full panic mode, and entered an alliance with religious fundamentalists.

There were always a bunch of know-nothing violent psychopaths and they were growing in influence, but the thing that led to ISIS was handing them a bunch of know-at-least-something authoritarian commu-nazis to command them and teach them basic military shit, shortly before they got murdered and sacrificed to baal or whatever the fuck these people believe in, don't care.

I'm pretty sure ISIS still uses the phrase "Allah" to refer to their deity, but okay.
Poisonous alliance for the fuckers, but at least all will be hopefully undone.

[Philjia]

British ISIS member wants to come home; feels ‘homesick’.
Absolutely reasonable, of course. The man was depressed, unhappy, misses his family, misses his home. He doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore; he doesn’t want to execute any more homosexuals, stone any more women, blow up any more hospitals. Which is why I absolutely advocate sending a jet to go an collect him, bring him back to the UK, set up a red carpet & a welcoming party on the runway- with a brass band, and maybe even balloons!
And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon. An absolute tribute to the ‘poor, depressed English teacher’ who just wants to ‘come home’.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion that we should accept and reintegrate these monsters back into society is a farce, and is something the British public will not swallow. Men, and women, who conduct criminal terrorist acts in the name of a twisted and misinterpreted faith, who condemn innocent people to death in the most barbaric means possible, and who pledge to wipe out own societies off the face of the earth, have no place in the West, and must be eradicated. My first action as Prime Minister would be to authorise the extrajudicial killings of UK-born terrorists operating abroad, and to establish a special intelligence committee responsible for tracking anybody with terror links and compiling the appropriate evidence to prosecute, or indeed terminate, them to minimise the risk to the British public.
No negotiation, no sympathy. We must smash terrorism.

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

British ISIS member wants to come home; feels ‘homesick’.
Absolutely reasonable, of course. The man was depressed, unhappy, misses his family, misses his home. He doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore; he doesn’t want to execute any more homosexuals, stone any more women, blow up any more hospitals. Which is why I absolutely advocate sending a jet to go an collect him, bring him back to the UK, set up a red carpet & a welcoming party on the runway- with a brass band, and maybe even balloons!
And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon. An absolute tribute to the ‘poor, depressed English teacher’ who just wants to ‘come home’.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion that we should accept and reintegrate these monsters back into society is a farce, and is something the British public will not swallow. Men, and women, who conduct criminal terrorist acts in the name of a twisted and misinterpreted faith, who condemn innocent people to death in the most barbaric means possible, and who pledge to wipe out own societies off the face of the earth, have no place in the West, and must be eradicated. My first action as Prime Minister would be to authorise the extrajudicial killings of UK-born terrorists operating abroad, and to establish a special intelligence committee responsible for tracking anybody with terror links and compiling the appropriate evidence to prosecute, or indeed terminate, them to minimise the risk to the British public.
No negotiation, no sympathy. We must smash terrorism.

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

Worked for the Zerg and the ants, right?

[Ostroeuropa]

British ISIS member wants to come home; feels ‘homesick’.
Absolutely reasonable, of course. The man was depressed, unhappy, misses his family, misses his home. He doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore; he doesn’t want to execute any more homosexuals, stone any more women, blow up any more hospitals. Which is why I absolutely advocate sending a jet to go an collect him, bring him back to the UK, set up a red carpet & a welcoming party on the runway- with a brass band, and maybe even balloons!
And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon. An absolute tribute to the ‘poor, depressed English teacher’ who just wants to ‘come home’.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion that we should accept and reintegrate these monsters back into society is a farce, and is something the British public will not swallow. Men, and women, who conduct criminal terrorist acts in the name of a twisted and misinterpreted faith, who condemn innocent people to death in the most barbaric means possible, and who pledge to wipe out own societies off the face of the earth, have no place in the West, and must be eradicated. My first action as Prime Minister would be to authorise the extrajudicial killings of UK-born terrorists operating abroad, and to establish a special intelligence committee responsible for tracking anybody with terror links and compiling the appropriate evidence to prosecute, or indeed terminate, them to minimise the risk to the British public.
No negotiation, no sympathy. We must smash terrorism.

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

[Anywhere Else But Here]

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

Gunning down someone who can quite easily be arrested is murder.

[Ostroeuropa]

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

Gunning down someone who can quite easily be arrested is murder.

They can't quite easily be arrested. To get people in place to capture and extract requires a much more complex operation than a drone strike.

[Souseiseki]

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

ok i was about to try and give my admittedly uneducated opinion on drone strikes on people not actively engaged in combat but then i saw "And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon" and yeah no that's blatantly the kind of thing that will get pesky left-wing human rights lawyers calling the eurocops on you

[Dooom35796821595]

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

Gunning down someone who can quite easily be arrested is murder.

That's why it's best to gun them down while they're still a threat.

[Philjia]

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

What's paranoid about targeting terrorists, and how is it murder?

Well, as of today we still have a prison system, although that may well have changed by, say, Monday morning. Prison is where we send people who are bad in order to separate them from society so that they are not able to harm society, and theoretically rehabilitate them to not want to commit crime anymore. A disillusioned and depressed former terrorist would be an ideal candidate for prison. UK citizens who insist on getting themselves caught up in warzones do so at their own risk, but people on British soil should be subject to the British legal system.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Gunning down someone who can quite easily be arrested is murder.

They can't quite easily be arrested. To get people in place to capture and extract requires a much more complex operation than a drone strike.

She suggested shooting those who have returned to Britain.

[Ostroeuropa]

They can't quite easily be arrested. To get people in place to capture and extract requires a much more complex operation than a drone strike.

She suggested shooting those who have returned to Britain.

A terrorist entering britain is an invader, ofcourse we should defend ourselves. It's absurd to think otherwise, the fuck am I reading here?

Do you mean, a terrorist who has surrendered to our custody? Solution is simply, we do not take surrenders. I've said it before, they can have a ticket home if they neutralize the caliph, everyone else is fucked. We should make it clear that it's not something you can take back.

They have MASSIVE turnover rates. The ones coming home wont be a problem soon, its the ones going out there next week we have to dissuade.

They're usually good for one operation, then dead. Often, the operation revolves around them fucking killing themselves. It's not a matter of bleeding their manpower by accepting surrenders, but one of stopping recruitment in the first place.

[Lamadia 2016]

British ISIS member wants to come home; feels ‘homesick’.
Absolutely reasonable, of course. The man was depressed, unhappy, misses his family, misses his home. He doesn’t want to be a terrorist anymore; he doesn’t want to execute any more homosexuals, stone any more women, blow up any more hospitals. Which is why I absolutely advocate sending a jet to go an collect him, bring him back to the UK, set up a red carpet & a welcoming party on the runway- with a brass band, and maybe even balloons!
And then, of course, as he descends the steps to the ‘welcome home’ signs, police officers step out of the crowds and shoot him down with a sub-automatic weapon. An absolute tribute to the ‘poor, depressed English teacher’ who just wants to ‘come home’.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion that we should accept and reintegrate these monsters back into society is a farce, and is something the British public will not swallow. Men, and women, who conduct criminal terrorist acts in the name of a twisted and misinterpreted faith, who condemn innocent people to death in the most barbaric means possible, and who pledge to wipe out own societies off the face of the earth, have no place in the West, and must be eradicated. My first action as Prime Minister would be to authorise the extrajudicial killings of UK-born terrorists operating abroad, and to establish a special intelligence committee responsible for tracking anybody with terror links and compiling the appropriate evidence to prosecute, or indeed terminate, them to minimise the risk to the British public.
No negotiation, no sympathy. We must smash terrorism.

"We, the people of Britain, are paranoid murdering bastards with no sense of nuance or organised justice"
Brilliant, can't fail.

We of course have differing opinions; you see terrorists no doubt as people who are victims, largely innocent of their crimes. I, however, view them as I see in their true light: As murderers & as barbarians, who are not up for negotiation nor are willing to do so without serious concessions on our part, if at all. I will concede nothing other than the costs to kill these people.

Gunning down someone who can quite easily be arrested is murder.

That's why it's best to gun them down while they're still a threat.

Absolutely. Once we get our new aircraft carrier(s) in combat operations, a fantastic training exercise would be conducting bombing operations against these people abroad. Failing that, a serious military presence will be necessary in the region, if we are to consolidate a post-ISIL Syria & Iraq; one I hope excludes the iron grip of Assad.

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

She suggested shooting those who have returned to Britain.

A terrorist entering britain is an invader, ofcourse we should defend ourselves. It's absurd to think otherwise, the fuck am I reading here?

Do you mean, a terrorist who has surrendered to our custody? Solution is simply, we do not take surrenders. I've said it before, they can have a ticket home if they neutralize the caliph, everyone else is fucked. We should make it clear that it's not something you can take back.

They have MASSIVE turnover rates. The ones coming home wont be a problem soon, its the ones going out there next week we have to dissuade.

What can a Briton do to be called a traitor?
Because if you lot had the wisdom to call returning terrorists traitors I would support exterminating them.

[Ostroeuropa]

A terrorist entering britain is an invader, ofcourse we should defend ourselves. It's absurd to think otherwise, the fuck am I reading here?

Do you mean, a terrorist who has surrendered to our custody? Solution is simply, we do not take surrenders. I've said it before, they can have a ticket home if they neutralize the caliph, everyone else is fucked. We should make it clear that it's not something you can take back.

They have MASSIVE turnover rates. The ones coming home wont be a problem soon, its the ones going out there next week we have to dissuade.

What can a Briton do to be called a traitor?
Because if you lot had the wisdom to call returning terrorists traitors I would support exterminating them.

Under the law of the United Kingdom, high treason is the crime of disloyalty to the Crown. Offences constituting high treason include plotting the murder of the sovereign; committing adultery with the sovereign's consort, with the sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or with the wife of the heir to the throne; levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort; and attempting to undermine the lawfully established line of succession. Several other crimes have historically been categorised as high treason, including counterfeiting money and being a Catholic priest.

So that stuff basically.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

She suggested shooting those who have returned to Britain.

A terrorist entering britain is an invader, ofcourse we should defend ourselves. It's absurd to think otherwise, the fuck am I reading here?

Do you mean, a terrorist who has surrendered to our custody? Solution is simply, we do not take surrenders. I've said it before, they can have a ticket home if they neutralize the caliph, everyone else is fucked. We should make it clear that it's not something you can take back.

They have MASSIVE turnover rates. The ones coming home wont be a problem soon, its the ones going out there next week we have to dissuade.

No surrender? Sounds legal.

[Souseiseki]

Do you mean, a terrorist who has surrendered to our custody? Solution is simply, we do not take surrenders. I've said it before, they can have a ticket home if they neutralize the caliph, everyone else is fucked. We should make it clear that it's not something you can take back.

They have MASSIVE turnover rates. The ones coming home wont be a problem soon, its the ones going out there next week we have to dissuade.

no surrender is literally one of the worst things you can do, is super illegal and is something that not even the nazis or soviets officially adopted. this is how bad an idea it is. even the romans and mongols reserved it for specific battles. pretty sure sun tzu explicitly recommends against it. oh god i feel like i'm 14 all over again for bringing up sun tzu. but yes, it's a really bad idea.

e: that said the nazis have the typical nazi caveats, as do the soviets in many ways. being such a massive dick no one will willingly surrender to them because you'd torture them/kill them anyway has the same effective as official no quarter.