UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Great Nepal]

What did they say this time?

I've added some stuff to my original post, but my BT internet is playing up again so I am struggling with the BBC website.

This should be the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38027230

Welsh government is intervening against he government? Didn't they vote just as much as England - London to leave...

[Valaran]

Val asked why everywhere here seems obsessed with Cancer and it took me a moment, but then I realized that, oh yeh, we're in the middle of a campaign to crush it with the might of our medical science and explained to her that together, we're trying to beat cancer.

For a moment there I was really confused about what I had said.

I'd be more willing to extol the virtues of the NHS if I didn't keep thinking of the looming funding gap...

I mean, sure, it will survive via a mix of efficiency increases, privatisation, and maybe some belated extra govt' borrowing, but that's not ideal at all. The service is already creaking.

it's not looking good but these funding gaps are exacerbated in large part by tory cuts. slashing funding then getting a funding gap is a fairly expected result. it's like starve the beast but we're not entirely sure if it's intentional or not.

My two cents is that it is intentional by inaction/omission. Its not necessarily that the funding was deliberately cut to kill the 'public' aspect of the service* - that may have just remained a side effect. However, the government isn't concerned by that side-effect, and so won't mitigate it appropriately.

*though this may also be happening, or at least desired in some parts of the Government.

[Philjia]

Val asked why everywhere here seems obsessed with Cancer and it took me a moment, but then I realized that, oh yeh, we're in the middle of a campaign to crush it with the might of our medical science and explained to her that together, we're trying to beat cancer.

For a moment there I was really confused about what I had said.

it's not looking good but these funding gaps are exacerbated in large part by tory cuts. slashing funding then getting a funding gap is a fairly expected result. it's like starve the beast but we're not entirely sure if it's intentional or not.

My two cents is that it is intentional by inaction/omission. Its not necessarily that the funding was deliberately cut to kill the 'public' aspect of the service* - that may have just remained a side effect. However, the government isn't concerned by that side-effect, and so won't mitigate it appropriately.

*though this may also be happening, or at least desired in some parts of the Government.

And the Government will use it's own false economy as an excuse for more cuts.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

i'm just surprised we don't have an official war on cancer

Because the war on drugs did not stop drugs. The war on terrorism did not stop terrorism. So a war on cancer....

For the best. If we did, cancer would probably end up in control of a small country.

[Frank Zipper]

I've added some stuff to my original post, but my BT internet is playing up again so I am struggling with the BBC website.

This should be the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38027230

Welsh government is intervening against he government? Didn't they vote just as much as England - London to leave...

Is it a y-turn when the Welsh do it?

[Souseiseki]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 24796.html

The supreme court today threw a further hurdle in the way of Theresa May’s hopes of a smooth Brexit, when it ruled the Scottish and Welsh governments can intervene.

Edinburgh and Cardiff will be allowed to make their separate cases to the court for the right to have a say over the triggering of the Article 50 notice period.

The decision raises the possibility – albeit thought to be slim – of the Supreme Court agreeing with the SNP that the Scottish Parliament should have a veto over the Brexit strategy.

oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

[Alvecia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html

The supreme court today threw a further hurdle in the way of Theresa May’s hopes of a smooth Brexit, when it ruled the Scottish and Welsh governments can intervene.

Edinburgh and Cardiff will be allowed to make their separate cases to the court for the right to have a say over the triggering of the Article 50 notice period.

The decision raises the possibility – albeit thought to be slim – of the Supreme Court agreeing with the SNP that the Scottish Parliament should have a veto over the Brexit strategy.

oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

I mean. I would like a stable political environment.
But on the other hand chaos is so much fun.

[Shamhnan Insir]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html

The supreme court today threw a further hurdle in the way of Theresa May’s hopes of a smooth Brexit, when it ruled the Scottish and Welsh governments can intervene.

Edinburgh and Cardiff will be allowed to make their separate cases to the court for the right to have a say over the triggering of the Article 50 notice period.

The decision raises the possibility – albeit thought to be slim – of the Supreme Court agreeing with the SNP that the Scottish Parliament should have a veto over the Brexit strategy.

oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

I assume they are trying to take back the limelight from the US election, by creating another giant shit-show for the media to feast on like bloated flies.

[Hurdergaryp]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html

The supreme court today threw a further hurdle in the way of Theresa May’s hopes of a smooth Brexit, when it ruled the Scottish and Welsh governments can intervene.

Edinburgh and Cardiff will be allowed to make their separate cases to the court for the right to have a say over the triggering of the Article 50 notice period.

The decision raises the possibility – albeit thought to be slim – of the Supreme Court agreeing with the SNP that the Scottish Parliament should have a veto over the Brexit strategy.

oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

[Alvecia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html


oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

It's impossible for a Scot to sound civil, cause everytime they're polite they sound like the most sarcastic wanker you ever met.

[New Benian Republic]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html


oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

It is rather poetic isn't it.

[Shamhnan Insir]

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

It's impossible for a Scot to sound civil, cause everytime they're polite they sound like the most sarcastic wanker you ever met.

Hey! I can sound pretty damn polite if I choose to!

To be honest, the current Scottish government should not be put in charge of a decision like this considering the state of its own affairs.

[Souseiseki]

i'm very polite as well

[Alvecia]

It's impossible for a Scot to sound civil, cause everytime they're polite they sound like the most sarcastic wanker you ever met.

Hey! I can sound pretty damn polite if I choose to!

i'm very polite as well

I can hear the sarcasm

[Great Nepal]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html


oh man just imagine the fucking chaos

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

I think you mean saving England despite it fucking over Scotland for centuries..

[Shamhnan Insir]

The English have fucked up the Scottish for centuries, so there's a kind of poetic justice in the possibility that the Scottish will be returning the favor in a remarkably civilized way.

I think you mean saving England despite it fucking over Scotland for centuries..

Incorrect. Scotland has done a remarkable job in fucking itself over in the past, just as we seem to be doing now, we don't need anyone else to do it for us.

[Imperializt Russia]

Val asked why everywhere here seems obsessed with Cancer ...

A side effect of reading the Daily Mail.

ba-dum-tish!

Oh god, it's almost International Men's Day and though I haven't looked back at the previous pages I'll assume Ostro has made some comments, so I'll just pre-empt some things I think he'll say.

What I don't get is why we can't take a feminist perspective in advocating for men's issues - Jess Phillips has addressed men's issues in the past and in her writings. She herself said “the most painful misrepresentation of me, is that I don’t care about male suicide rates. It’s frankly remarkable that I find myself in the position that I have to do this but let me be clear, I really, really do care.” and supports government funding being used to create a specialist men’s suicide prevention service. Really the MRM is hypocritical and should stop demonising a woman who has actively done more for men than the MRMers.

Also I find it ridiculous that in a male-dominated parliament they need their own day to raise their issues. The whole point of an IWD debate is to raise issues that would not otherwise be raised due to other issues deemed by men in parliament to be of more importance. I don't really find the need of an IMD debate to be necessary, at least until there is full parity, in which case it might make sense to have an IMD debate. Issues relating to gender equality in general, whether female or men, do tend to get pushed to the back of the queue, though the men in parliament have far more opportunities to raise them at this point in time.

There is a high suicide rate, caused by the pressures men face in a patriarchal society for instance. Or issues concerning parental leave - for the most part, a man gets a shorter time than a woman, which isn't beneficial for either gender if the woman would rather work and if the man would rather stay home to look after the kids. Or violence against men including male rape, which isn't taken seriously due to toxic masculinity that dictates that men who face it are weak. They should be discussed, though once again there are plenty of times to raise this.

The problem is MRM is essentially like a white rights movement arguing on behalf of the white working class - it's making whiteness to defining issue, not what is really an economic problem linked to issues like immigration, the decline of manufacturing and unbalanced trade deals. I think if we're going to have an IMD, it can't be a tool of the MRM.

celebrating positive role models, about highlighting the good men among us, about promoting better health for men and boys and about promoting gender equality so we live longer, better, happier lives. It’s about celebrating the best of us and working out how to help the worst, about celebrating what we do well and finding ways to fix what we don’t.

What I bolded is things that I don't think shouldn't be in IMD. We have plenty of times of be proud and have a feel-good feeling for ourselves - we live in a patriarchal society where we're already advantaged. We should be focusing on the issues that patriarchy causes or issues that exists in spite of our advantaged status.

All our disagreements are forgiven.

Welsh government is intervening against he government? Didn't they vote just as much as England - London to leave...

Is it a y-turn when the Welsh do it?

Enough with the zingers, you.

[Geilinor]

Because the war on drugs did not stop drugs. The war on terrorism did not stop terrorism. So a war on cancer....

I think Nixon declared a war on cancer...and since we always tend to follow American adventurism....

War on Cancer is Best War.

[Imperializt Russia]

I think Nixon declared a war on cancer...and since we always tend to follow American adventurism....

War on Cancer is Best War.

The only way drone strikes could possibly get more contentious.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've added some stuff to my original post, but my BT internet is playing up again so I am struggling with the BBC website.

This should be the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38027230

Welsh government is intervening against he government? Didn't they vote just as much as England - London to leave...

Good news for me.
Labour in power will fuck over the majority of welsh voters just in time for me to make a run for something if i'm not mistaken. The tories need candidates.

[Imperializt Russia]

Welsh government is intervening against he government? Didn't they vote just as much as England - London to leave...

Good news for me.
Labour in power will fuck over the majority of welsh voters just in time for me to make a run for something if i'm not mistaken. The tories need candidates.

"but the voters!"

This is taking back control. This is what you wanted.

[Ostroeuropa]

Good news for me.
Labour in power will fuck over the majority of welsh voters just in time for me to make a run for something if i'm not mistaken. The tories need candidates.

"but the voters!"

This is taking back control. This is what you wanted.

I was luke-warm remain, if you remember. I'm just trying to make the best of Brexit.

[South Park Labourite]

"but the voters!"

This is taking back control. This is what you wanted.

I was luke-warm remain, if you remember. I'm just trying to make the best of Brexit.

You're learning well.

[Imperializt Russia]

"but the voters!"

This is taking back control. This is what you wanted.

I was luke-warm remain, if you remember. I'm just trying to make the best of Brexit.

I imagine so is the Welsh government.

You're leaping to "will prevent Brexit by any and all means", which I'm sure some Welsh MPs (and Scottish and English and Irish) honestly believe.
Most of them will probably be using this as leverage against the government to guarantee lost EU funding.

Also, just saying, but Wales was the only devolved country that voted Leave. Even England voted more heavily to leave.
It wasn't decisive by any means.

[South Park Labourite]

I was luke-warm remain, if you remember. I'm just trying to make the best of Brexit.

I imagine so is the Welsh government.

You're leaping to "will prevent Brexit by any and all means", which I'm sure some Welsh MPs (and Scottish and English and Irish) honestly believe.
Most of them will probably be using this as leverage against the government to guarantee lost EU funding.

The general line throughout Labour is that we want Britain to remain in the single market whilst ending freedom of movement (impossible basically, though most of the public wants this fantasy too). Though there is a lot of squabbling about how exactly we should articulate this stance and also whether we keep freedom of movement (Corbyn and Abbott are for this, Lewis and Starmer against, McDonnell I'm not too sure).