Scottish Independence 2016?

[Jankau-Helmutsberg]

This meant they also agreed to accept the outcomes of all future nationwide referendums, even if they disagreed with England or Wales.

No, it meant that they didn't want Scotland to leave the UK at that time. A vote in a referendum or election now doesn't mean you will always for the rest of your life vote the same way in any future one.

To me it's kind of moody to decide to cope with people you usually disagree with and then 2 years later clench your fist because you were outvoted again.

[Greater Orensta]

Don't forget

[Herargon]

Don't forget

Non lo credo.

I don't believe him.

Edit: Scotland still has a future.

Semi edit 2: wait did you just change your flag suddenly

[Greater Orensta]

Don't forget

Non lo credo.

I don't believe him.

The Scots deserve to be free, just my opinion

[Herargon]

Non lo credo.

I don't believe him.

The Scots deserve to be free, just my opinion

That's my opinion as well - I'd love it if they join us once more into the EU.

I'm thinking of how the English will feel about this, though ... probably they're apathetic since after the pound fall and the independence movements growing, plus having to be stuck with a semi-one party state...

[Greater Orensta]

The Scots deserve to be free, just my opinion

That's my opinion as well - I'd love it if they join us once more into the EU.

I'm thinking of how the English will feel about this, though ... probably they're apathetic since after the pound fall and the independence movements growing, plus having to be stuck with a semi-one party state...

Europe itself wants to break up

[Herargon]

That's my opinion as well - I'd love it if they join us once more into the EU.

I'm thinking of how the English will feel about this, though ... probably they're apathetic since after the pound fall and the independence movements growing, plus having to be stuck with a semi-one party state...

Europe itself wants to break up

Not all of those movements are really serious, though. The Frisian one just wants to be recognised as a people, and they feel neglected.

Flanders on the other hand, is an entire different can of worms. As is Corsica.

There even are movements for a larger Russia (Crimea, remember?), and a larger France (rattachism), or unification of Germanic speaking people. Nevertheless, I'll have to admit they differ in seriousness as well - the last being the least serious because of WW2, and the first one has succeeded already.

[Paredonia]

The Scots deserve to be free, just my opinion

That is the wrong word to use. The Scots already ARE free, they have just as much freedom as anyone else does in the Western world. The right term to use would be 'independent'. Although why you think that I don't know.

[Greater Orensta]

Europe itself wants to break up

Not all of those movements are really serious, though. The Frisian one just wants to be recognised as a people, and they feel neglected.

Flanders on the other hand, is an entire different can of worms. As is Corsica.

There even are movements for a larger Russia (Crimea, remember?), and a larger France (rattachism), or unification of Germanic speaking people. Nevertheless, I'll have to admit they differ in seriousness as well - the last being the least serious because of WW2, and the first one has succeeded already.

So was the Euskadi Ta Askatasuna.

[Nordengrund]

I'm not Scottish, but my family has roots there, so what I think doesn't matter and it's not my place to tell a country I know nothing about what to do.

It seems odd to me that the UK didn't adopt a federalist system sooner since you have four (AFAIK) countries with different cultures, (the English, Welsh, Scots, and Northern Irish) and surely they'd have their own competing interests.

Personally, I think devolution and giving each country(?) more autonomy seems like a good option. Then again, take this with a grain of salt.

[Na h-Alba Nuadh]

I'm not Scottish, but my family has roots there, so what I think doesn't matter and it's not my place to tell a country I know nothing about what to do.

It seems odd to me that the UK didn't adopt a federalist system sooner since you have four (AFAIK) countries with different cultures, (the English, Welsh, Scots, and Northern Irish) and surely they'd have their own competing interests.

Personally, I think devolution and giving each country(?) more autonomy seems like a good option. Then again, take this with a grain of salt.

If the UK had adopted a federal system in the 1950's not only would there likely to have been no significant Scottish independence movement now, it would also have had a good chance of avoiding the NI troubles.

Mind you adopting a federal system any time in the 1860s to 1890s instead of the Dominions system would have probably left half the British Empire (and Ireland) intact to the present. But you make your decisions and move on from there, no going back to try again with hindsight...

[Risottia]

I'm thinking of how the English will feel about this, though ... probably they're apathetic since after the pound fall and the independence movements growing, plus having to be stuck with a semi-one party state...

Depends on what English you're talking about. The Londoners look quite pissed about Brexit.

[Risottia]

Spain would probably do it to keep the Basques from getting uppity.

and the Catalans, not like that would deter the Basques but it could deal a strong blow to the Catalan independence movement. Visca Catalunya, Askatu Euskal Herria!

Huge difference.
Catalunya and Euskadi would face Spanish opposition should they become independent and apply for EU accession.
On the other hand, Alba wouldn't have to face UK opposition, because the UK is about to leave.

[Valaran]

Despite the rather sharp fall in my respect and appreciation of the UK, I still believe this should be a united Kingdom. However, if they want another referendum, feel free. I'd leave the decision up to the Scottish Government on that front, who will doubtless base their decision heavily on polling data.

[Old Tyrannia]

There is no such thing as a "Scottish citizen."

Scotland had a vote on independence two years ago, and the Scottish people chose to remain in the United Kingdom. They should not be allowed to have anther vote on the matter every time the UK as a whole takes an action that the Scots do not like. I don't doubt that Scotland has the capability to survive as a country outside of the UK, however, Scottish Nationalists are deluding themselves if they believe that Scotland wouldn't be poorer for leaving. I'm going to refrain from expressing my views on people who have suddenly started supporting Scottish independence out of spite following the Brexit result, especially those from outside Scotland, on the grounds that it would almost certainly result in the intervention of the moderator team.

Do you actually want a Catholic absolute monarchy under King Francis II or are you just one of those people who invoke the Jacobites' name without knowing or caring what they actually stood for?

I will feel sorry for Mel Gibson when he finally dies and meets the real William Wallace in the afterlife.

Wait, but isn't this the same argument about Brexit? You know, UKIP leaders are also delusional that they think Britain won't be poorer without the EU.

I don't see how that is relevant.

Also, the reason another vote is needed is because a large portion of the Scottish population voted to stay part of the U.K. Because they were in the EU, and would stop any actions taken by said independent Scotland to join. This worry is no longer relevant, that's why many opinion polls show most Scottish people pro-independence.

Actually the concern was always that Spain would block an independent Scotland's EU accession in an effort to discourage their own separatist movements, which remains a possibility even without the UK in the EU. And two years ago when the independence referendum was held, the Conservatives had already pledged to hold a referendum on EU membership if returned to government. It's not as if the possibility didn't even exist that the UK might leave the EU until after the previous independence referendum. Besides, I see no real reason why the UK government should be obliged to grant a referendum on the subject at all, let alone two years after the last one.

Yes an independent Scotland would likely be poorer than if it stayed in the UK, but a non-eu UK would be poorer than if it stayed in the EU.

Again, not relevant.

If you believe in democracy, why is it a bad thing if Scotland were to be independent? If the Scottish people want it, are you going to deny a majority?

Well, firstly, I don't believe in democracy; at least not of the direct and majoritarian sort.

Secondly, for me at least it would be a bad thing for Scotland to be independent because I am a British citizen, with both Scottish and English blood, who identifies with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Why shouldn't I be opposed to the dismemberment of my country?

[Marcurix]

Good, if most of Scotland vote no then they must hate this country enough. Or you know, they're just even more British planted anti-nationalists who are fine with oppressing our country.

That quite enough of that thank you. Your inability to make a reasoned argument does not translate into me hating my country.

The Scottish Parliament would have enough power to declare independence, if Nicola and co. weren't so bloody incompetent. We need someone with balls who will just stand up and say, "We're having another referendum." and end it at that.

Which is both illegal, short-sighted and more damaging to the country than you can possibly imagine.

And, the demographic in support of our freedom is RISING every year. Just like with the EU vote, it's the older generation in favour of it. They're dying off, and nationalists are being born every day. Have fun, because Scotland will be free by 2040 at the latest.

Younger generations tend to be more idealistic and the 18-24 voted majority to Remain. It's a notable difference for a reason.


And to add a few corrections:

our Scottish Assembly not being delivered despite a majority voting for it,

Because it didn't meet the clear turnout condition that was an established precedent of the vote. Lack of interest on part of the voter is not oppression by the government.

rigging our independence referendum because we'd be successful alone,

An assertion which has been called bullshit by literally everyone involved with the vote - including the SNP and numerous international observers.

voting to renew trident (which is in OUR country) even though WE don't want it, I could list more but there's a character limit :^)

I always question that, the turnout at the anti-nuclear protests prior to the vote was lackluster, to say the least.

Still given this, you aren't the one to be going round telling people to educate themselves.

[Quokkastan]

How, precisely, is the poll defining 'Scottish citizen'?

Does it refer to:

A) People who define themselves as ethnically Scottish regardless of where they live?

B) People who live in Scotland, regardless of their ethnicity?

C) People with the right to vote in Scotland, regardless of their ethnicity?

D) People who would be eligible for a Scottish passport should Scotland achieve independence, regardless of residency or ethnicity?

E) Other.

Regardless, the OP's grasp of the term 'Scottish citizen' seems curiously ill-defined.

The poll only refers to True Scotsmen.

[Geilinor]

Their opinion certainly DOES matter. You see, Scottish independence if by some miracle it ever happened, is something that would affect the entire United Kingdom, not just Scotland. Therefore, EVERYONE in the United Kingdom is entitled to an opinion, and the opinion of EVERYONE in the United Kingdom on this issue is valid, not just the opinion of the Scots.

The UK is a sovereign state, Scotland is a country. Why should people from another country get to vote on what we want? Do you think that we should be able to vote for the US president because it will effect us? Their opinion DOESN'T matter. IT'S SCOTLAND, NOT ENGLAND.

People from other countries don't get to vote, but they can express their opinions on the Internet. You support Donald Trump despite not being able to vote in the US.

[The Two Jerseys]

Honestly, I can't take Great Kauthar's posts seriously since they sound like Lost Cause Confederate revisionism that substitutes "English" for "damn Yankees".

[Radiatia]

Considering nearly twice as many people in Scotland voted to remain in the UK as voted to remain in the EU, the argument that "A majority of Scots supported EU membership, therefore we should be independent" is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

Though to be fair, I expect nothing less than dishonesty from the SNP...

[The Liberated Territories]

I'm not Scottish, but my family has roots there, so what I think doesn't matter and it's not my place to tell a country I know nothing about what to do.

It seems odd to me that the UK didn't adopt a federalist system sooner since you have four (AFAIK) countries with different cultures, (the English, Welsh, Scots, and Northern Irish) and surely they'd have their own competing interests.

Personally, I think devolution and giving each country(?) more autonomy seems like a good option. Then again, take this with a grain of salt.

Strongly this.

[Eol Sha]

Considering nearly twice as many people in Scotland voted to remain in the UK as voted to remain in the EU, the argument that "A majority of Scots supported EU membership, therefore we should be independent" is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

Though to be fair, I expect nothing less than dishonesty from the SNP...

Didn't the EU vote get 60+%? While the independence referendum was around 55-46?

[Liberated England]

The whole point of Brexit was stopping a foreign power imposing their will on us.

At the same time imposing our will on the Scots over their own.

#logic

They had a Referendum on whether to stay in the UK or not, they decided to stay. I understand the reasoning behind your statement, but the UK doesn't belong to any one place, it's Scotland's as well as England's, Wales and Northern Ireland's. No one is exposing their will on Scotland.

[Vassenor]

The whole point of Brexit was stopping a foreign power imposing their will on us.

At the same time imposing our will on the Scots over their own.

#logic

They had a Referendum on whether to stay in the UK or not, they decided to stay. I understand the reasoning behind your statement, but the UK doesn't belong to any one place, it's Scotland's as well as England's, Wales and Northern Ireland's. No one is exposing their will on Scotland.

Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU and we are dragging them out kicking and screaming.

[Dooom35796821595]

It won't happen this year. And the SNP have yet to rationalise their reason for independence beyond Brexit logic.