Scottish Independence 2016?

[Paredonia]

Everyone that votes no should get paid to move and live in England. It's only fair.

So that would be pretty much most of Scotland heading south then?

What pretty much everyone is forgetting is that the Scottish Parliament has absolutely NO power or NO authority to hold a referendum that changes the terms of the Union. That powers lies with the Westminster Government and the Westminster Government alone. They have already said that they shall not give permission for a second referendum, as one was already held a mere year and 11 months ago, a referendum that the SNP promised would be a "once in a generation" thing. Who knew that generations now last not even two years? Therefore, without Westminster permission, there shall not and will not be a second independence referendum. If the minority SNP government that most of Scotland didn't vote for tries to hold one anyway, it will be non-binding and Westminster would be completely free to ignore the result, even if by some miracle it managed to return a Yes vote.

Secondly, MORE people voted No to Scottish independence than they did to Remaining in the EU. 2 million voted No, 1.6 million voted Remain. Clearly, Scots are far more interested in staying part of the UK, than remaining in the EU. Polls show that most No voters would 100% vote No again, and as they constitute the majority of Scots, any potential indyref 2 is assured to be defeated once more. Especially considering that polls still show a majority of Scots in favour of the Union, even WITH Brexit.

Basically, Scottish independence is but a pipe dream, held by a minority demographic that is shrinking every year.

[Na h-Alba Nuadh]

Are you also going to argue that the May 2013 draft referendum bill issued by the senior coalition party also doesn't count as a "public proposal"?

If so, one wonders whether the definition of 'public proposal' is, in this particular case, 'whatever I need it to be to dig myself out of this unfortunate rhetorical hole'.

A private members bill - you are correct, I wouldn't consider that a "public proposal". I'm not wriggling, I'm applying terminology. Perhaps you would prefer the non technical "official proposal" as an alternative? If you interpret "public proposal" to mean "anything stated in public", then UKIP stated they wanted to take the UK out of the EU too.

In 2014 the government elided these problems by simply letting the SNP gerrymander the electorate as much as they liked in the knowledge that they would lose anyway, and have fewer grounds for delegitimising the result afterwards. This resulted in the ridiculous situation of foreigners voting on the territorial integrity of our country.

"Gerrymander"? It was everyone resident in Scotland entitled to vote in local elections, with the addition of those aged 16 or 17. Neither side, whether SNP govt or Tory/Dem govt did anything there to "fix" the electorate.

When you speak of "our country", which country is that, and who is "us"? Should Scottish Nationalists have banned anyone born in England from voting? That would have removed some of the SNPs members. Should British Nationalists have banned anyone born outside the British Isles from voting? Using the existing electoral roll as it stood at the time was a logical choice.

The addition of 16 & 17 year olds was the only part one could question. They have since been added to the local elections roll permanently in Scotland, giving a reduction of franchise age long proposed by the Liberal Democrats and now adopted also by the Labour party for application to the UK as a whole. Therefore one could see their inclusion in the Indyref as being a "trial run" for general application to the vote, but not "gerrymander" as both sides thought the younger voters would support them and agreed the addition.

[Risottia]

Then why not make a Scottish monarchy? Independent and monarchy, now that is cool.

I am willing to accept the heavy burden of being King of Scotland.

We need to check how you look in a kilt. Show some leg!

[HMS Vanguard]

In 2014 the government elided these problems by simply letting the SNP gerrymander the electorate as much as they liked in the knowledge that they would lose anyway, and have fewer grounds for delegitimising the result afterwards. This resulted in the ridiculous situation of foreigners voting on the territorial integrity of our country.

"Gerrymander"? It was everyone resident in Scotland entitled to vote in local elections, with the addition of those aged 16 or 17. Neither side, whether SNP govt or Tory/Dem govt did anything there to "fix" the electorate.

Why local elections? Is the integrity of the country a minor issue that should be treated with the widest possible franchise, allowed for the weakest of our elected institutions?

Why 16 and 17 year olds, an entirely new innovation, except that 16 and 17 year olds were more pro-independence than other age groups?

When you speak of "our country", which country is that, and who is "us"? Should Scottish Nationalists have banned anyone born in England from voting? That would have removed some of the SNPs members. Should British Nationalists have banned anyone born outside the British Isles from voting? Using the existing electoral roll as it stood at the time was a logical choice.

The United Kingdom. Obviously people who were not citizens of the UK should not have been allowed to vote in a constitutional referendum. EU citizens voting whether to break up the UK was pathetically bizarre.

The addition of 16 & 17 year olds was the only part one could question. They have since been added to the local elections roll permanently in Scotland, giving a reduction of franchise age long proposed by the Liberal Democrats and now adopted also by the Labour party for application to the UK as a whole. Therefore one could see their inclusion in the Indyref as being a "trial run" for general application to the vote, but not "gerrymander" as both sides thought the younger voters would support them and agreed the addition.

No they didn't. Polls showed clearly that 16 and 17 year olds were the most pro-independence age group.

[Alvecia]

I'd really rather they stayed.

[Great Kauthar]

Everyone that votes no should get paid to move and live in England. It's only fair.

So that would be pretty much most of Scotland heading south then?

What pretty much everyone is forgetting is that the Scottish Parliament has absolutely NO power or NO authority to hold a referendum that changes the terms of the Union. That powers lies with the Westminster Government and the Westminster Government alone. They have already said that they shall not give permission for a second referendum, as one was already held a mere year and 11 months ago, a referendum that the SNP promised would be a "once in a generation" thing. Who knew that generations now last not even two years? Therefore, without Westminster permission, there shall not and will not be a second independence referendum. If the minority SNP government that most of Scotland didn't vote for tries to hold one anyway, it will be non-binding and Westminster would be completely free to ignore the result, even if by some miracle it managed to return a Yes vote.

Secondly, MORE people voted No to Scottish independence than they did to Remaining in the EU. 2 million voted No, 1.6 million voted Remain. Clearly, Scots are far more interested in staying part of the UK, than remaining in the EU. Polls show that most No voters would 100% vote No again, and as they constitute the majority of Scots, any potential indyref 2 is assured to be defeated once more. Especially considering that polls still show a majority of Scots in favour of the Union, even WITH Brexit.

Basically, Scottish independence is but a pipe dream, held by a minority demographic that is shrinking every year.

We didn't vote to remain in this united kingdom, we voted to remain in an EU referendum. Once again however, we're being forced to do what England wants, yet they still claim we're in no way oppressed. If the majority of polls show Scots are in favour of the union, why is another referendum bad then? Let us have it, if we lose it, we lose it. If the people of Scotland don't want independence then, we may as well never try again. But let me make it clear, we will gain our independence, one way or another, Alba will be free.

[Great Kauthar]

I'd really rather they stayed.

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Everyone that votes no should get paid to move and live in England. It's only fair.

So that would be pretty much most of Scotland heading south then?

What pretty much everyone is forgetting is that the Scottish Parliament has absolutely NO power or NO authority to hold a referendum that changes the terms of the Union. That powers lies with the Westminster Government and the Westminster Government alone. They have already said that they shall not give permission for a second referendum, as one was already held a mere year and 11 months ago, a referendum that the SNP promised would be a "once in a generation" thing. Who knew that generations now last not even two years? Therefore, without Westminster permission, there shall not and will not be a second independence referendum. If the minority SNP government that most of Scotland didn't vote for tries to hold one anyway, it will be non-binding and Westminster would be completely free to ignore the result, even if by some miracle it managed to return a Yes vote.

Secondly, MORE people voted No to Scottish independence than they did to Remaining in the EU. 2 million voted No, 1.6 million voted Remain. Clearly, Scots are far more interested in staying part of the UK, than remaining in the EU. Polls show that most No voters would 100% vote No again, and as they constitute the majority of Scots, any potential indyref 2 is assured to be defeated once more. Especially considering that polls still show a majority of Scots in favour of the Union, even WITH Brexit.

Basically, Scottish independence is but a pipe dream, held by a minority demographic that is shrinking every year.

Good, if most of Scotland vote no then they must hate this country enough. Or you know, they're just even more British planted anti-nationalists who are fine with oppressing our country.
The Scottish Parliament would have enough power to declare independence, if Nicola and co. weren't so bloody incompetent. We need someone with balls who will just stand up and say, "We're having another referendum." and end it at that.
And, the demographic in support of our freedom is RISING every year. Just like with the EU vote, it's the older generation in favour of it. They're dying off, and nationalists are being born every day. Have fun, because Scotland will be free by 2040 at the latest.

E) Other.

Anyone living in Scotland who watches braveheart at least once every two weeks

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm normally almost absolute in my opposition to secession. I'd prefer that people try to fix their countries, rather than abandon them for movements that are generally founded in nationalism, prejudice, and old grudges. In any case, separatism is at best a beurocratic mess that weakness the country in question, and worst a potential cause of armed conflict (though I don't see that as plausible in this case, of course).

But I have to say that, as much as it would grieve me to see Britain divided, Scotland has very good reason to leave. I am inclined to think that the Brexit vote can rightly be regarded as a betrayal of Scotland by the rest of the UK, and in this case, while they would be leaving Britain, they'd be doing it at least in part to remain in the EU, meaning that the action could be regarded, paradoxically, as anti-sepparatist.

If they opt to leave, I don't think I'll hold it against them.

[Paredonia]

We didn't vote to remain in this united kingdom, we voted to remain in an EU referendum.

Uh yes you did, back in September 2014? 55.3% No, 44.7% Yes?

Once again however, we're being forced to do what England wants.

I'm sure that's exactly what the English said when the Scots imposed a Labour government on them for 13 years, with two Scottish Prime Ministers no less. As well as Scottish MPs imposing tuition fees on England and Wales but not Scotland, and Scottish MPs blocking the alteration of Sunday trading laws in England and Wales, despite that very law being in place in Scotland already. And in the EU referendum, I seem to recall that Wales voted to Leave too, as did a majority of British citizens, including well over a million Scots.

yet they still claim we're in no way oppressed

You aren't oppressed just because you don't get your own way for once. That's an insult to the people in the world that actually ARE oppressed.

If the majority of polls show Scots are in favour of the union, why is another referendum bad then?

Because referendums cost a hell of a lot of money and you already had one not even two years ago?

Let us have it, if we lose it, we lose it.

You did have it and you did lose it, quite massively too I must say. It was a referendum that gave a result that the SNP promised to respect, something that it hasn't actually done.

If the people of Scotland don't want independence

Which they don't, as proven by the referendum conducted not even two years ago.

Then, we may as well never try again.

Quite right too.

But let me make it clear, we will gain our independence, one way or another, Alba will be free.

Something that you Scottish nationalists claimed was true all the way up to the independence referendum that you Yes voters lost massively. I think people in North Korea, Syria and Iraq, people who actually AREN'T free would have a few choice words for you if you have the audacity to tell them that Scotland isn't free either.

And, the demographic in support of our freedom is RISING every year.

Number of Yes voters: 1.6 million
Number of SNP voters 2015: 1.4 million
Number of SNP voters 2016: 1 million
Number of SNP MSPs 2011: 69 MAJORITY
Number of SNP MSPs 2016: 63 MINORITY

Number of No voters: 2 million
Number of Remain voters: 1.6 million

Yes, I can see why you think that(!)

[Alvecia]

I'd really rather they stayed.

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Is that going to stop me from expressing it? Fuck no.

STAY SCOTLAND!! I LOVE YOU!!

[Paredonia]

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Their opinion certainly DOES matter. You see, Scottish independence if by some miracle it ever happened, is something that would affect the entire United Kingdom, not just Scotland. Therefore, EVERYONE in the United Kingdom is entitled to an opinion, and the opinion of EVERYONE in the United Kingdom on this issue is valid, not just the opinion of the Scots.

[Great Kauthar]

We didn't vote to remain in this united kingdom, we voted to remain in an EU referendum.

Uh yes you did, back in September 2014? 55.3% No, 44.7% Yes?

Once again however, we're being forced to do what England wants.

I'm sure that's exactly what the English said when the Scots imposed a Labour government on them for 13 years, with two Scottish Prime Ministers no less. As well as Scottish MPs imposing tuition fees on England and Wales but not Scotland, and Scottish MPs blocking the alteration of Sunday trading laws in England and Wales, despite that very law being in place in Scotland already. And in the EU referendum, I seem to recall that Wales voted to Leave too, as did a majority of British citizens, including well over a million Scots.

yet they still claim we're in no way oppressed

You aren't oppressed just because you don't get your own way for once. That's an insult to the people in the world that actually ARE oppressed.

If the majority of polls show Scots are in favour of the union, why is another referendum bad then?

Because referendums cost a hell of a lot of money and you already had one not even two years ago?

Let us have it, if we lose it, we lose it.

You did have it and you did lose it, quite massively too I must say. It was a referendum that gave a result that the SNP promised to respect, something that it hasn't actually done.

If the people of Scotland don't want independence

Which they don't, as proven by the referendum conducted not even two years ago.

Then, we may as well never try again.

Quite right too.

But let me make it clear, we will gain our independence, one way or another, Alba will be free.

Something that you Scottish nationalists claimed was true all the way up to the independence referendum that you Yes voters lost massively. I think people in North Korea, Syria and Iraq, people who actually AREN'T free would have a few choice words for you if you have the audacity to tell them that Scotland isn't free either.

And, the demographic in support of our freedom is RISING every year.

Number of Yes voters: 1.6 million
Number of SNP voters 2015: 1.4 million
Number of SNP voters 2016: 1 million
Number of SNP MSPs 2011: 69 MAJORITY
Number of SNP MSPs 2016: 63 MINORITY

Number of No voters: 2 million
Number of Remain voters: 1.6 million

Yes, I can see why you think that(!)

Number of SNP voters 2015: 1.4 million
Number of SNP voters 2016: 1 million
Number of SNP MSPs 2011: 69 MAJORITY
Number of SNP MSPs 2016: 63 MINORITY
there is someone who has no fucking clue how the Scottish Parliament voting system works (ASM) works.
It's better if people vote for the SNP for the first ballot, and another nationalist party on the second ballot. Don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about.
People didn't realise that voting for the SNP twice was costly unless there was a lower chance of them getting a seat from the first ballot. THE ASM SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR A MINORITY, THE SNP GETTING A MAJORITY WAS MEANT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE, IT HAPPENING TWICE WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

You'll be in for a big shock in the next referendum.

I'm sure that's exactly what the English said when the Scots imposed a Labour government on them for 13 years, with two Scottish Prime Ministers no less. As well as Scottish MPs imposing tuition fees on England and Wales but not Scotland, and Scottish MPs blocking the alteration of Sunday trading laws in England and Wales, despite that very law being in place in Scotland already. And in the EU referendum, I seem to recall that Wales voted to Leave too, as did a majority of British citizens, including well over a million Scots.

That's a UK government. Should we ban Scots, Irish and Welsh from voting in it? NO! The majority of Scots didn't want to be in the union in the first place, the least we deserve is the right to vote. Get an English Parliament if you want an English government, I'm all in favour of that. WE are being forced out of the EU, because the ENGLISH voted out. ALMOST 2 THIRDS of Scots voted to REMAIN! I'm in favour of leaving, but SCOTLAND is a country, and we will not allow you to force us out.

You aren't oppressed just because you don't get your own way for once. That's an insult to the people in the world that actually ARE oppressed.

Margaret Thatcher fucking our economy up and taking our resources, our Scottish Assembly not being delivered despite a majority voting for it, rigging our independence referendum because we'd be successful alone, voting to renew trident (which is in OUR country) even though WE don't want it, I could list more but there's a character limit :^)

[Great Kauthar]

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Their opinion certainly DOES matter. You see, Scottish independence if by some miracle it ever happened, is something that would affect the entire United Kingdom, not just Scotland. Therefore, EVERYONE in the United Kingdom is entitled to an opinion, and the opinion of EVERYONE in the United Kingdom on this issue is valid, not just the opinion of the Scots.

The UK is a sovereign state, Scotland is a country. Why should people from another country get to vote on what we want? Do you think that we should be able to vote for the US president because it will effect us? Their opinion DOESN'T matter. IT'S SCOTLAND, NOT ENGLAND.

[Thermodolia]

Scotland should be given their independence and should become a republic. I'd like to see a United Ireland, an independent Scotland, and the rest of the UK a republic in the near future.

The nationalists want to keep the monarchy though.

I'm a diehard republican, in the classical sense not the American, I'm no fan of monarchies.

[Pirelin]

I'd really rather they stayed.

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Not necessarily.

[Thermodolia]

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Is that going to stop me from expressing it? Fuck no.

STAY SCOTLAND!! I LOVE YOU!!

Ya kinda screwed that up after England voted to leave and dragged everyone else along with them

[Great Kauthar]

You see the thing is unless your Scottish your opinion doesn't really matter.

Not necessarily.

em yes, it's our country, unless you're Scottish and not the american "1/64th scottish because of my great great great great great grandfather" kind of Scottish, your opinion doesn't matter. Our country, not yours.

[Alvecia]

Is that going to stop me from expressing it? Fuck no.

STAY SCOTLAND!! I LOVE YOU!!

Ya kinda screwed that up after England voted to leave and dragged everyone else along with them

I didn't screw that up, the other me did.

[Pirelin]

Not necessarily.

em yes, it's our country, unless you're Scottish and not the american "1/64th scottish because of my great great great great great grandfather" kind of Scottish, your opinion doesn't matter. Our country, not yours.

Right, but we can still give an opinion. It isn't equal to your own, but we can still share it.

[Paredonia]

there is someone who has no fucking clue how the Scottish Parliament voting system works (ASM) works.
It's better if people vote for the SNP for the first ballot, and another nationalist party on the second ballot. Don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about.
People didn't realise that voting for the SNP twice was costly unless there was a lower chance of them getting a seat from the first ballot. THE ASM SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR A MINORITY, THE SNP GETTING A MAJORITY WAS MEANT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE, IT HAPPENING TWICE WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

The SNP still lost votes and seats though, didn't it? There were still more people that DIDN'T vote SNP than did, weren't there?

You'll be in for a big shock in the next referendum.

And what referendum would that be? And that's EXACTLY what the Scottish nationalists said in the run up to the first referendum that they massively and decisively lost.

That's a UK government. Should we ban Scots, Irish and Welsh from voting in it?

That's not what I said. What I am saying is that you think it's awful when the rest of the UK "imposes" it's will on Scotland but perfectly fine if Scotland does the same to the rest of the UK. That's hypocrisy.

The majority of Scots didn't want to be in the union in the first place

Irrelevant since that was over 300 years ago.

the least we deserve is the right to vote.

Which you already have, and the Scottish nationalists lost.

Get an English Parliament if you want an English government, I'm all in favour of that.

As am I. I don't see how it's right for the Scots, us Welsh and the Northern Irish to have their own devolved institutions but not the English. That's really quite wrong actually.

WE are being forced out of the EU, because the ENGLISH voted out.

Scotland isn't being forced out of anywhere, since Scotland isn't a member of the EU. The United Kingdom is though, and the EU referendum was about the United Kingdom's membership. If you actually voted, you would recall that the question asked was: "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Not a single mention of Scotland in the slightest. So did the Welsh, so did over one million Scots. Scottish nationalists desperately try and prove to the world that Scottish nationalism isn't based on hatred of the English, yet every nationalist I have ever encountered always manages to blame all of Scotland's ills on England and the English. Nationalism is sickening enough as it is but even more so when it's based on racism and xenophobia.

ALMOST 2 THIRDS of Scots voted to REMAIN!

Actually, they didn't. It was almost 2 thirds of all the Scots THAT VOTED, NOT two thirds of all Scots. There's a big difference. And since Scotland had the second lowest turnout in the entire United Kingdom, Scotland can't actually be THAT bothered by EU membership. Who knows? If more Scots actually bothered making their way to the polling stations, the UK may not be leaving right now. Pretty much most of the Scots that voted to Remain are independence supporters anyway, a demographic that is in the minority. Even so, MORE Scots voted to remain in the UK than the EU. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.

But SCOTLAND is a country

Find me one nation or one international organisation such as the EU or UN that actually recognises it as such, you can't because there aren't. No one recognises Scotland as a country because, quite simply, it isn't. It IS however a CONSTITUENT country of the United Kingdom, something that is basically the British equivalent of US states.

and we will not allow you to force us out

The will of the British people was clear, a majority voted out. What each individual component of the UK wanted was completely irrelevant, the only thing that mattered was what a majority of British citizens as a whole wanted. And they wanted to Leave.

Margaret Thatcher fucking our economy up and taking our resources

As she did us all, that's not exclusive to the Scots. And they aren't Scotland's resources, they are the United Kingdom's resources used to benefit all citizens of the United Kingdom, just like resources cultivated in England, Wales and Northern Ireland are used to the benefit of Scotland in addition to themselves. Such is how every single country on the planet operates.

Our Scottish Assembly not being delivered despite a majority voting for it

The turnout needed for the referendum's results to be carried out were not met. This quota was a well known fact that was established in the actual Act of Parliament that approved the actual referendum. Again, don't blame anyone else just because lots of Scots couldn't be bothered to turn out and vote, that's your own failure.

rigging our independence referendum because we'd be successful alone

Ah yes, this old myth again. The referendum was rigged because it didn't give the result I wanted. You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? That's funny, because pretty much the only ones that were saying an independent Scotland would be successful were the SNP. Pretty much every world-renowned economist on the planet said it would be disastrous for Scotland, something they say would be even worse right now given the fact that the oil an iScotland would depend on is worthless.

Voting to renew trident (which is in OUR country) even though WE don't want it

Where in the United Kingdom Trident is based is irrelevant. They belong to the United Kingdom as a whole and as such, can be placed wherever in the United Kingdom that our government chooses. Funny you should say that, because polls consistently show that Scots are either only mildly opposed to Trident, or actually slightly in FAVOUR of Trident. Trident is a UK-wide issue, not a Scottish issue therefore it was voted on by ALL British MPs from ALL parts of the United Kingdom. A majority of MPs voted for renewal, therefore Trident shall be renewed. It really is as simple as that.

[Ostroeuropa]

I am still opposed to Scottish independence, though I cannot deny it has become more understandable.

[Paredonia]

I am still opposed to Scottish independence, though I cannot deny it has become more understandable.

Why has it though? People knew that there would be a referendum on the EU over a year before the independence referendum was held. We were all aware that there was a 50% chance that a majority of British citizens would vote to leave the EU. It wasn't a secret or anything, it was a well known fact. I personally think that all the people using the EU referendum as justification to hold a second indyref are just looking for any old excuse.

[Great Kauthar]

there is someone who has no fucking clue how the Scottish Parliament voting system works (ASM) works.
It's better if people vote for the SNP for the first ballot, and another nationalist party on the second ballot. Don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about.
People didn't realise that voting for the SNP twice was costly unless there was a lower chance of them getting a seat from the first ballot. THE ASM SYSTEM IS DESIGNED FOR A MINORITY, THE SNP GETTING A MAJORITY WAS MEANT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE, IT HAPPENING TWICE WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

The SNP still lost votes and seats though, didn't it? There were still more people that DIDN'T vote SNP than did, weren't there?

You'll be in for a big shock in the next referendum.

And what referendum would that be? And that's EXACTLY what the Scottish nationalists said in the run up to the first referendum that they massively and decisively lost.

That's a UK government. Should we ban Scots, Irish and Welsh from voting in it?

That's not what I said. What I am saying is that you think it's awful when the rest of the UK "imposes" it's will on Scotland but perfectly fine if Scotland does the same to the rest of the UK. That's hypocrisy.

The majority of Scots didn't want to be in the union in the first place

Irrelevant since that was over 300 years ago.

the least we deserve is the right to vote.

Which you already have, and the Scottish nationalists lost.

Get an English Parliament if you want an English government, I'm all in favour of that.

As am I. I don't see how it's right for the Scots, us Welsh and the Northern Irish to have their own devolved institutions but not the English. That's really quite wrong actually.

WE are being forced out of the EU, because the ENGLISH voted out.

Scotland isn't being forced out of anywhere, since Scotland isn't a member of the EU. The United Kingdom is though, and the EU referendum was about the United Kingdom's membership. If you actually voted, you would recall that the question asked was: "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Not a single mention of Scotland in the slightest. So did the Welsh, so did over one million Scots. Scottish nationalists desperately try and prove to the world that Scottish nationalism isn't based on hatred of the English, yet every nationalist I have ever encountered always manages to blame all of Scotland's ills on England and the English. Nationalism is sickening enough as it is but even more so when it's based on racism and xenophobia.

ALMOST 2 THIRDS of Scots voted to REMAIN!

Actually, they didn't. It was almost 2 thirds of all the Scots THAT VOTED, NOT two thirds of all Scots. There's a big difference. And since Scotland had the second lowest turnout in the entire United Kingdom, Scotland can't actually be THAT bothered by EU membership. Who knows? If more Scots actually bothered making their way to the polling stations, the UK may not be leaving right now. Pretty much most of the Scots that voted to Remain are independence supporters anyway, a demographic that is in the minority. Even so, MORE Scots voted to remain in the UK than the EU. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.

But SCOTLAND is a country

Find me one nation or one international organisation such as the EU or UN that actually recognises it as such, you can't because there aren't. No one recognises Scotland as a country because, quite simply, it isn't. It IS however a CONSTITUENT country of the United Kingdom, something that is basically the British equivalent of US states.

and we will not allow you to force us out

The will of the British people was clear, a majority voted out. What each individual component of the UK wanted was completely irrelevant, the only thing that mattered was what a majority of British citizens as a whole wanted. And they wanted to Leave.

Margaret Thatcher fucking our economy up and taking our resources

As she did us all, that's not exclusive to the Scots. And they aren't Scotland's resources, they are the United Kingdom's resources used to benefit all citizens of the United Kingdom, just like resources cultivated in England, Wales and Northern Ireland are used to the benefit of Scotland in addition to themselves. Such is how every single country on the planet operates.

Our Scottish Assembly not being delivered despite a majority voting for it

The turnout needed for the referendum's results to be carried out were not met. This quota was a well known fact that was established in the actual Act of Parliament that approved the actual referendum. Again, don't blame anyone else just because lots of Scots couldn't be bothered to turn out and vote, that's your own failure.

rigging our independence referendum because we'd be successful alone

Ah yes, this old myth again. The referendum was rigged because it didn't give the result I wanted. You really don't understand how democracy works, do you? That's funny, because pretty much the only ones that were saying an independent Scotland would be successful were the SNP. Pretty much every world-renowned economist on the planet said it would be disastrous for Scotland, something they say would be even worse right now given the fact that the oil an iScotland would depend on is worthless.

Voting to renew trident (which is in OUR country) even though WE don't want it

Where in the United Kingdom Trident is based is irrelevant. They belong to the United Kingdom as a whole and as such, can be placed wherever in the United Kingdom that our government chooses. Funny you should say that, because polls consistently show that Scots are either only mildly opposed to Trident, or actually slightly in FAVOUR of Trident. Trident is a UK-wide issue, not a Scottish issue therefore it was voted on by ALL British MPs from ALL parts of the United Kingdom. A majority of MPs voted for renewal, therefore Trident shall be renewed. It really is as simple as that.

The SNP still lost votes and seats though, didn't it? There were still more people that DIDN'T vote SNP than did, weren't there?

You dont understand how it works, so I'm going to ignore this. Educate yourself, then talk. You're not doing yourself any favours right now.

And what referendum would that be? And that's EXACTLY what the Scottish nationalists said in the run up to the first referendum that they massively and decisively lost.

"Massively" if the other 15% of the population voted, it could've been a lot different. Referendums like this need to have compulsory voting, because once again it was old people who won't live for much longer ruining it for younger people.

That's not what I said. What I am saying is that you think it's awful when the rest of the UK "imposes" it's will on Scotland but perfectly fine if Scotland does the same to the rest of the UK. That's hypocrisy.

THAT WAS FOR THE UK PARLIAMENT! If the ENGLISH didn't elect Thatcher to fuck over Scotland, maybe we would still be voting Tory, but HEY, it's your own fault. Us "imposing" a labour government on the UK isn't really imposing, because all of our votes go to one parliament. If you think us voting for labour to represent us in the UNITED KINGDOM is imposing, then let us go.

As she did us all, that's not exclusive to the Scots. And they aren't Scotland's resources, they are the United Kingdom's resources used to benefit all citizens of the United Kingdom, just like resources cultivated in England, Wales and Northern Ireland are used to the benefit of Scotland in addition to themselves. Such is how every single country on the planet operates.

nope, Scottish resources for the Scottish people. Not England's.

Find me one nation or one international organisation such as the EU or UN that actually recognises it as such, you can't because there aren't. No one recognises Scotland as a country because, quite simply, it isn't. It IS however a CONSTITUENT country of the United Kingdom, something that is basically the British equivalent of US states.

the UN & the EU are biased anti-freedom western zionist puppets, their opinion doesn't matter.

Nationalism is sickening enough as it is but even more so when it's based on racism and xenophobia.

IF YOU HATE NATIONALISM, WHY SUPPORT UNIONISM??

[Angleter]

I am still opposed to Scottish independence, though I cannot deny it has become more understandable.

Why has it though? People knew that there would be a referendum on the EU over a year before the independence referendum was held. We were all aware that there was a 50% chance that a majority of British citizens would vote to leave the EU. It wasn't a secret or anything, it was a well known fact. I personally think that all the people using the EU referendum as justification to hold a second indyref are just looking for any old excuse.

Also, part and parcel of a national democracy is that you accept decisions from each other's hands (outright oppression notwithstanding, obviously). It's not simply an alliance of transient convenience, nor should it be.

[Herargon]

I am still opposed to Scottish independence, though I cannot deny it has become more understandable.

Around 55% in Scotland voted no in their referendum because they wanted to stay within the EU. Becoming independent would have been no problem for them, but they were unsure if they were to retain EU membership if they became independent, or not.
Now that ~52% in the United Kingdom voted for Brexit (mind you though, it were almost only the English and ... the Welsh‽ How they decided to cut in their own funds as one of the biggest profiters of EU membership, is a mystery upon me), the Scottish are thus wanting to leave because it is now very likely they won't retain EU membership; so why not become independent then?

They are going to apply for regaining EU membership which will likely come quickly, given that most countries in the EU wouldn't mind that - even Spain wouldn't oppose it I guess, since they have a small rivalry with the English over Gibraltar, though I'm not entirely sure.

Regarding the lessened power of the UK; that is the price it pays. Shouldn't have voted Brexit and expect to not get into a financial crisis, and to get all benefits of the EU without having to get all obligations, then.

On another side, I see the reason of the non-Scottish (especially the English) as well. They do not want to lose more power than they already had lost since the decolonisation.