US Betrays Democracy in Middle East, Again

[Menassa]

And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region [...]

Israel.

[Bakery Hill]

I mean they'd have to realign their whole foreign policy in the region. But that's probably not a bad idea, seeing how that's been going for the whole of my fucking life time

Who knows, being genuinely liberal might actually work.

It'd be a hard road, but might be worth it.

Mostly. Arabization and hence wahhabisation of the ummah marches on.

That's worrying. But then again, only 100 went to Syria? In a Muslim majority country? There's quite a few Western European countries with more of a jihadist problem than that.

[Bakery Hill]

And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region [...]

Israel.

That's a kettle of fish I don't want to open in this thread haha

[Conserative Morality]

The Turks are in NATO. That's the problem with allowing Islamic majority countries in the NATO structure. Their interests don't line up with ours sometimes.

Nothing to do with Turkey being Muslim; everything to do with Turks and Kurds hating the shit out of each other.

[Kanaria]

Who knows, being genuinely liberal might actually work.

It'd be a hard road, but might be worth it.

Mostly. Arabization and hence wahhabisation of the ummah marches on.

That's worrying. But then again, only 100 went to Syria? In a Muslim majority country? There's quite a few Western European countries with more of a jihadist problem than that.

Lucky lot. Kosovo had worse problems with wahhabization after the war there.
True, the Albanian issue remains small as to be hardly worth mention.

[Bakery Hill]

It'd be a hard road, but might be worth it.


That's worrying. But then again, only 100 went to Syria? In a Muslim majority country? There's quite a few Western European countries with more of a jihadist problem than that.

Lucky lot. Kosovo had worse problems with wahhabization after the war there.
True, the Albanian issue remains small as to be hardly worth mention.

Economics and social unrest breed this shit. That and American dollars of course.

[Papal Republics]

The U.S. is in a "damned if we do, damned if don't" situation. Support Assad, we support a dictator who has oppressed his own people. Support the rebels, we inadvertently assist terror groups who want to hurt Americans. The best thing to do is remain neutral and focus instead on humanitarian efforts for civilians who want to evacuate the region. Let the two sides fight, as long as we save the actual human beings who want to live life peacefully.

[Kanaria]

Lucky lot. Kosovo had worse problems with wahhabization after the war there.
True, the Albanian issue remains small as to be hardly worth mention.

Economics and social unrest breed this shit. That and American dollars of course.

Yes, it's a shame we pay out effectively for the poison of freedom's propagation.
The poison being Wahhabism.

[Bakery Hill]

The U.S. is in a "damned if we do, damned if don't" situation. Support Assad, we support a dictator who has oppressed his own people. Support the rebels, we inadvertently assist terror groups who want to hurt Americans. The best thing to do is remain neutral and focus instead on humanitarian efforts for civilians who want to evacuate the region. Let the two sides fight, as long as we save the actual human beings who want to live life peacefully.

The SDF are neither though?

[Saiwania]

Don't worry too much about it, Russia, China, and Iran have apparently formed a tripartite alliance which is supporting the Assad regime and the momentum of the war in Syria is definitely in their favor and not with any of Syria's rebels nor with Turkey or the Gulf Arab states which hoped to foment unrest.

[Bakery Hill]

Don't worry too much about it, Russia, China, and Iran have apparently formed a tripartite alliance which is supporting the Assad regime and the momentum of the war in Syria is definitely in their favor and not with any of Syria's rebels nor with Turkey or the Gulf Arab states which hoped to foment unrest.

Nah fuck the Assad regime. Sectarian tyrants.

[Gauthier]

I was always told Israel was the only secular democratic force in the Middle East.

[Dileno]

I was always told Israel was the only secular democratic force in the Middle East.

It isn't.
Not as long as Syria Democratic Forces exists anyway.

Don't worry too much about it, Russia, China, and Iran have apparently formed a tripartite alliance which is supporting the Assad regime and the momentum of the war in Syria is definitely in their favor and not with any of Syria's rebels nor with Turkey or the Gulf Arab states which hoped to foment unrest.

Of course.

[Bakery Hill]

I was always told Israel was the only secular democratic force in the Middle East.

Whoops. D:

[Western-Ukraine]

I was always told Israel was the only secular democratic force in the Middle East.

It is the only secular democratic force in the ME. The Israeli population has more civil liberties than any other population in the region, and the country today is more peaceful than ever. The president and the parliament are elected by the people and the judicial system is sound.

Israel might not be a perfect democracy, but it is still the most democratic force in the ME by far. I would much rather support Israel alone in the ME, instead of choosing sides in the petty Syrian bloodbath.

[Wallenburg]

Um...what the fuck? Kurdish forces are one of the few palatable factions left in the region. If anything, we should make support for them conditional on a guarantee that they advance further into ISIS-held territory.

[Saiwania]

Nah fuck the Assad regime. Sectarian tyrants.

Is it even practical to have an anti-Assad stance anymore with regards to foreign policy? I think that point has long since passed. It has come down to a binary choice in terms of possible outcome in Syria- either Assad's regime remains in power and regains full control over their territory, or Assad's regime collapses and Syria is turned into a safe haven for Islamic terrorists.

The simple fact is that the Jihadist rebel groups are strong whilst the secular Syrian rebels are weak at best to non-existent in comparison and are a complete non-factor at this point in Syria's war. Do people really want to take the risk of destabilizing the entire region just to depose a dictator they disagree with?

This is akin to refusing to work with Joseph Stalin during World War 2, despite the fact that the USSR was in the best position to repel and defeat Nazi Germany.

[Gauthier]

Nah fuck the Assad regime. Sectarian tyrants.

Is it even practical to have an anti-Assad stance anymore with regards to foreign policy? I think that point has long since passed. It has come down to a binary choice in terms of possible outcome in Syria- either Assad's regime remains in power and regains full control over their territory, or Assad's regime collapses and Syria is turned into a safe haven for Islamic terrorists.

The simple fact is that the Jihadist rebel groups are strong whilst the secular Syrian rebels are weak at best to non-existent in comparison and are a complete non-factor at this point in Syria's war. Do people really want to take the risk of destabilizing the entire region just to depose a dictator they disagree with?

This is akin to refusing to work with Joseph Stalin during World War 2, despite the fact that the USSR was in the best position to repel and defeat Nazi Germany.

As if doing a 180 and sucking up to Assad won't have any repercussions whatsoever.

[Bakery Hill]

I was always told Israel was the only secular democratic force in the Middle East.

It is the only secular democratic force in the ME. The Israeli population has more civil liberties than any other population in the region, and the country today is more peaceful than ever. The president and the parliament are elected by the people and the judicial system is sound.

Israel might not be a perfect democracy, but it is still the most democratic force in the ME by far. I would much rather support Israel alone in the ME, instead of choosing sides in the petty Syrian bloodbath.

Read up on Rojava then. They don't call themselves a Muslim nation. They don't use their military to oppress neighbouring populations.

[Bakery Hill]

Um...what the fuck? Kurdish forces are one of the few palatable factions left in the region. If anything, we should make support for them conditional on a guarantee that they advance further into ISIS-held territory.

You don't need to cajole them into doing that. They were fighting ISIS before the US finally decided to support them, and they'll keep doing it if the US withdraw support.

[Menassa]

Israel.

That's a kettle of fish I don't want to open in this thread haha

It's a secular democracy in the middle east.

[Bakery Hill]

That's a kettle of fish I don't want to open in this thread haha

It's a secular democracy in the middle east.

For some people it is.

[Wallenburg]

Um...what the fuck? Kurdish forces are one of the few palatable factions left in the region. If anything, we should make support for them conditional on a guarantee that they advance further into ISIS-held territory.

You don't need to cajole them into doing that. They were fighting ISIS before the US finally decided to support them, and they'll keep doing it if the US withdraw support.

I know, what I'm trying to say is that even telling them to keep going forward just to get support makes more sense than telling them to pull back. I guess I phrased it poorly.

[Menassa]

It's a secular democracy in the middle east.

For some people it is.

Come again?

[Western-Ukraine]

It is the only secular democratic force in the ME. The Israeli population has more civil liberties than any other population in the region, and the country today is more peaceful than ever. The president and the parliament are elected by the people and the judicial system is sound.

Israel might not be a perfect democracy, but it is still the most democratic force in the ME by far. I would much rather support Israel alone in the ME, instead of choosing sides in the petty Syrian bloodbath.

Read up on Rojava then. They don't call themselves a Muslim nation. They don't use their military to oppress neighbouring populations.

Rojava is hardly a secular democratic entity in practice. It is naïve to assume that every supporter of Rojava is as egalitarian as the most liberal of the lot. Besides, most of that information could be based on hearsay and propaganda.

I see no reason whatsoever to support Rojava yet. Instead, Israel is the established and proven choice.