by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:44 pm
by Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:45 pm
Bakery Hill wrote:And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region.
http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bide ... 016-8?IR=T
The cynic in me is surprised it took this long. Biden's basically insisting that either the Syrian Democratic Forces hand towns like Manbij back to jihadist militias, or the US will let the Turks crush Rojava. These are towns, most of which are majority Arab, that have already begun to set up their own democratic structures and defence forces, who celebrated in the streets when the foreign jihadists of IS were drive out, and they've already insisted that they'll fight the Turkish backed Islamists rebels no matter what happens. All this highlights something we should never forget, but many of us often do. Don't listen when our politicians talk about "liberty" and "democracy", in the game of empire, expediency is king.
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:47 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Bakery Hill wrote:And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region.
http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bide ... 016-8?IR=T
The cynic in me is surprised it took this long. Biden's basically insisting that either the Syrian Democratic Forces hand towns like Manbij back to jihadist militias, or the US will let the Turks crush Rojava. These are towns, most of which are majority Arab, that have already begun to set up their own democratic structures and defence forces, who celebrated in the streets when the foreign jihadists of IS were drive out, and they've already insisted that they'll fight the Turkish backed Islamists rebels no matter what happens. All this highlights something we should never forget, but many of us often do. Don't listen when our politicians talk about "liberty" and "democracy", in the game of empire, expediency is king.
You might want to add a question to the OP so that the thread doesn't get locked as a blog post.
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:48 pm
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:52 pm
Bakery Hill wrote:And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region.
http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bide ... 016-8?IR=T
The cynic in me is surprised it took this long. Biden's basically insisting that either the Syrian Democratic Forces hand towns like Manbij back to jihadist militias, or the US will let the Turks crush Rojava. These are towns, most of which are majority Arab, that have already begun to set up their own democratic structures and defence forces, who celebrated in the streets when the foreign jihadists of IS were drive out, and they've already insisted that they'll fight the Turkish backed Islamists rebels no matter what happens. All this highlights something we should never forget, but many of us often do. Don't listen when our politicians talk about "liberty" and "democracy", in the game of empire, expediency is king.
Was the US right to back Islamic fundamentalists against secular democrats so as to finally defeat the scourge of fundamentalist Islam? What will/can/should the SDF do now?
by The Lone Alliance » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:53 pm
by Costa Fierro » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:54 pm
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:57 pm
Kanaria wrote:Bakery Hill wrote:And finally the US betray the only secular democratic force in the region.
http://www.businessinsider.com/joe-bide ... 016-8?IR=T
The cynic in me is surprised it took this long. Biden's basically insisting that either the Syrian Democratic Forces hand towns like Manbij back to jihadist militias, or the US will let the Turks crush Rojava. These are towns, most of which are majority Arab, that have already begun to set up their own democratic structures and defence forces, who celebrated in the streets when the foreign jihadists of IS were drive out, and they've already insisted that they'll fight the Turkish backed Islamists rebels no matter what happens. All this highlights something we should never forget, but many of us often do. Don't listen when our politicians talk about "liberty" and "democracy", in the game of empire, expediency is king.
Was the US right to back Islamic fundamentalists against secular democrats so as to finally defeat the scourge of fundamentalist Islam? What will/can/should the SDF do now?
They have no allies, and I have no moral guidance for them.
They can accede to the American demands, or they can die. That is all.
There's precious little chance Russia will back them, the likelihood of that is lower than finding cryolite in Latakia Governorate.
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:57 pm
Costa Fierro wrote:The OP does realize the Syrian opposition isn't purely jihadists and other unsavoury groups, right?
The Lone Alliance wrote:Have to kiss Turkey's ass since they're blaming us for the coup apparently.
Reality if Rojava kept winning they'd have completely cut the northern border off.
That would have cut ISIS off completely but would have also cut off the "Not Al Qaeda that is actually Al Qaeda" from their supply lines in Turkey. Since the US clearly doesn't understand the Sunk Costs Fallacy, and\or we don't want to hurt the House of Saud's proxy war, we're going to leave the border open even though this will inevitably lead to more ISIS smugglers carrying out terror attacks...
What a wonderful policy. /s
by The Lone Alliance » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:58 pm
Costa Fierro wrote:The OP does realize the Syrian opposition isn't purely jihadists and other unsavoury groups, right?
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:59 pm
Bakery Hill wrote:Kanaria wrote:They have no allies, and I have no moral guidance for them.
They can accede to the American demands, or they can die. That is all.
There's precious little chance Russia will back them, the likelihood of that is lower than finding cryolite in Latakia Governorate.
Wasn't it the American patriots who said "Give me liberty or give me death."? I hope they can reach some sort of compromise with the Turks, but some of the local Arabs and Kurds alike seem to be sticking by that old slogan. What would you do if you'd just thrown off Islamism, seen your friends and family die, and a week or two later, your "allies" want to see it brought back?
by Conserative Morality » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:01 pm
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:04 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Probably should just drop the Turks at this point. Sorry, Turks.
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:08 pm
Costa Fierro wrote:The OP does realize the Syrian opposition isn't purely jihadists and other unsavoury groups, right?
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:09 pm
The Lone Alliance wrote:Have to kiss Turkey's ass since they're blaming us for the coup apparently.
Reality if Rojava kept winning they'd have completely cut the northern border off.
That would have cut ISIS off completely but would have also cut off the "Not Al Qaeda that is actually Al Qaeda" from their supply lines in Turkey. Since the US clearly doesn't understand the Sunk Costs Fallacy, and\or we don't want to hurt the House of Saud's proxy war, we're going to leave the border open even though this will inevitably lead to more ISIS smugglers carrying out terror attacks...
What a wonderful policy. /s
by The Lone Alliance » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:10 pm
Senkaku wrote:Does the OP realize that the US never really gave a shit about Middle Eastern democracy to begin with?
by Risottia » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:11 pm
Kanaria wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:Probably should just drop the Turks at this point. Sorry, Turks.
Worth too much of our bullshit reserve to keep round us anyway.
Fuck Europe and Orban's whining about ebil refugees, this is in America's interest to kick them.
Though I do imagine how lovely it would be seeing NATO unravel.
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:11 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Probably should just drop the Turks at this point. Sorry, Turks.
by The Serbian Empire » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:14 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Probably should just drop the Turks at this point. Sorry, Turks.
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:21 pm
by Bakery Hill » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:24 pm
Senkaku wrote:Does the OP realize that the US never really gave a shit about Middle Eastern democracy to begin with?
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:25 pm
by Kanaria » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:26 pm
Bakery Hill wrote:Senkaku wrote:Does the OP realize that the US never really gave a shit about Middle Eastern democracy to begin with?
In some ways it does. The doctrine of the "Liberal International" has been US foreign policy as a superpower. But whether or not a country is democratic comes in a little down the list of what the US wants. That said, I'm more highlighting the fact that many of us should stop buying the bullshit politicians try and sell us about foreign policy.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], DataDyneIrkenAlliance, Europa Undivided, Ferelith, Herador, Hurdergaryp, Narland, Philjia, Shrillland, Tungstan, Yanitza
Advertisement