Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Felrik]

Losing your virginity and catcalling don't encourage sexual violence, one is where you have sex for the first time and the other is simply calling a women beautiful or saying you would like have sex, neither encourage violence at all, I fail to see how you made this jump in logic, one is calling a women beautiful or telling them you want to have sex with them, which out of the two examples you give the only one that could be really be counted as negative unless the virginity is lost by rape which is certainly not encouraged especially against women, and the other is something that both sexes desire to do, how do you equate that to sexual violence.

Have you ever asked a woman what she thinks of catcalling or how she feels about her first time probably having been something taken from her by a boy who cared more about how cool his friends were going to think he is than keeping a loving relationship?

"Sexual violence is defined as a sexual act committed against someone without that person's freely given consent. Sexual violence is divided into the following types: Completed or attempted forced penetration of a victim. Completed or attempted alcohol/drug-facilitated penetration of a victim.Apr 21, 2016"

I don't know where you're getting the definition of sexual violence my friend because neither of your examples are sexual violence.

[Mattopilos]

I think 'rape culture' is too strong a word for the prevalence of rape in the world today. I mean, it used to be worse back in the day, but it still exists and is seen as being a truly heinous act, so any news of it occurring is listened to. However, I think it is overblown to the point of being seen as a 'culture', when the better way of seeing it is "uncommon but of high concern".

[Minzerland]

No. I disagree. I think you'll find that the majority of people find rape an abhorrent act, and sexual violence against women in general and isn't considered part of 'growing up'.

That's where I've found that I was ignorant for many years. Not rape, note that I didn't say rape was part of the male 'growing up' culture, but that sexual violence is. For example, pulling at a party, losing your virginity, catcalling etc are venerated in male culture and while you'd think it's either innocuous or the women don't mind, it took me a long time to realise, after being with many women over the years, that it reinforces this culture of sexual violence towards other women and that it also seeps into the women's senses of sexual submission. Again, as I said before, maybe you don't do it, but to say that these things aren't part of male adolescent/growing-up culture would just be a lie.

A misleading label for a concept, don't ya think? 'Rape culture' implies rape.

Any proof as to whether this is true, or is this a general observation you made from anecdotes? Mine are to the contrary. We don't have a culture that encourages any kind of sexual violence, in fact, it is quite obvious, with clarity, that it is discouraged by both Government institutions and society. I have a difficult time comprehending how 'losing ones virginity' is sexual violence, btw. In any case, I don't see anything wrong with how 'male culture' venerates losing ones virginity, unless in a nonconsensual manner, which I don't have any reason to believe is venerated by 'male culture'.

I suspect you use this definition, yes?

Sexual violence is any sexual act or attempt to obtain a sexual act by violence or coercion, unwanted sexual comments or advances, acts to traffic a person or acts directed against a person's sexuality, regardless of the relationship to the victim.

I feel that this definition, which I'm fine with for the most part, is flawed; how is unwanted sexual comments or advances innately violent?

[Arkolon]

Have you ever asked a woman what she thinks of catcalling or how she feels about her first time probably having been something taken from her by a boy who cared more about how cool his friends were going to think he is than keeping a loving relationship?

It still does not equate to sexual violence.

No, but it does reinforce a culture where male sexual violence is normalised. I'd say catcalling is sexual violence, as is social sexual pressure at parties or other social gatherings, and this culture reinforcing mentalities that let teenage boys justify themselves to things like in Steubenville, Ohio is definitely sexual violence.

[Felrik]

I think 'rape culture' is too strong a word for the prevalence of rape in the world today. I mean, it used to be worse back in the day, but it still exists and is seen as being a truly heinous act, so any news of it occurring is listened to. However, I think it is overblown to the point of being seen as a 'culture', when the better way of seeing it is "uncommon but of high concern".

In the Middle East etc. there's definitely a rape culture, in the west no, you could argue a Sub-Rape culture, but the main target of rape culture would be men, seeing as it's trivialised when they're raped.

[Soadino]

Look outside your window, do you see the boogeyman? No? Because he's not real, just like this alleged Rape Culture in the West.

[Alvecia]

Look outside your window, do you see the boogeyman? No? Because he's not real, just like this alleged Rape Culture in the West.

You mean you aren't supposed to see the boogeyman outside of your window?

[Felrik]

It still does not equate to sexual violence.

No, but it does reinforce a culture where male sexual violence is normalised. I'd say catcalling is sexual violence, as is social sexual pressure at parties or other social gatherings, and this culture reinforcing mentalities that let teenage boys justify themselves to things like in Steubenville, Ohio is definitely sexual violence.

"Sexual violence is defined as a sexual act committed against someone without that person's freely given consent. Sexual violence is divided into the following types: Completed or attempted forced penetration of a victim. Completed or attempted alcohol/drug-facilitated penetration of a victim.Apr 21, 2016"

No it isn't, and I don't see how calling a women beautiful would reinforce sexual violence, and when you say social sexual pressure at parties are you referring to the encouragement of losing virginity, if so girls face just as much pressure to lose their virginity as well.

[Costa Fierro]

I'd say catcalling is sexual violence

No it isn't. Violence implies inherent physicality and catcalling does not involve any physical contact.

[Arkolon]

That's where I've found that I was ignorant for many years. Not rape, note that I didn't say rape was part of the male 'growing up' culture, but that sexual violence is. For example, pulling at a party, losing your virginity, catcalling etc are venerated in male culture and while you'd think it's either innocuous or the women don't mind, it took me a long time to realise, after being with many women over the years, that it reinforces this culture of sexual violence towards other women and that it also seeps into the women's senses of sexual submission. Again, as I said before, maybe you don't do it, but to say that these things aren't part of male adolescent/growing-up culture would just be a lie.

A misleading label for a concept, don't ya think? 'Rape culture' implies rape.

Every third post I seem to make in this thread is about how inaccurate the term is.

Any proof as to whether this is true, or is this a general observation you made from anecdotes?

There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into. Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night. Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups. It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

[Mattopilos]

I think 'rape culture' is too strong a word for the prevalence of rape in the world today. I mean, it used to be worse back in the day, but it still exists and is seen as being a truly heinous act, so any news of it occurring is listened to. However, I think it is overblown to the point of being seen as a 'culture', when the better way of seeing it is "uncommon but of high concern".

In the Middle East etc. there's definitely a rape culture, in the west no, you could argue a Sub-Rape culture, but the main target of rape culture would be men, seeing as it's trivialised when they're raped.

Exactly - there is a rape culture, but not in the way people explain it to be (like it is in the middle East).

[Arkolon]

I'd say catcalling is sexual violence

No it isn't. Violence implies inherent physicality and catcalling does not involve any physical contact.

Violence isn't inherently physical action; violence is also the intimidation by the exhibition of overpowering physical force.

[Catochristoferson]

It still does not equate to sexual violence.

No, but it does reinforce a culture where male sexual violence is normalised. I'd say catcalling is sexual violence, as is social sexual pressure at parties or other social gatherings, and this culture reinforcing mentalities that let teenage boys justify themselves to things like in Steubenville, Ohio is definitely sexual violence.

Catcalling?

Are you f***ing kidding me?

How is that violent?

I think 'rape culture' is too strong a word for the prevalence of rape in the world today. I mean, it used to be worse back in the day, but it still exists and is seen as being a truly heinous act, so any news of it occurring is listened to. However, I think it is overblown to the point of being seen as a 'culture', when the better way of seeing it is "uncommon but of high concern".

In the Middle East etc. there's definitely a rape culture, in the west no, you could argue a Sub-Rape culture, but the main target of rape culture would be men, seeing as it's trivialised when they're raped.

I'm not a fan of Islam, but last I checked Islam punished rape through death penalty.

[Mattopilos]

I'm not a fan of Islam, but last I checked Islam punished rape through death penalty.

I think he is suggesting rape is a larger problem in the middle East. Which it is.

[Soadino]

I'm not a fan of Islam, but last I checked Islam punished rape through death penalty.

I think he is suggesting rape is a larger problem in the middle East. Which it is.

And then you have Sweden....

[Felrik]

A misleading label for a concept, don't ya think? 'Rape culture' implies rape.

Every third post I seem to make in this thread is about how inaccurate the term is.

Any proof as to whether this is true, or is this a general observation you made from anecdotes?

There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into. Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night. Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups. It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

I suggest you go out and ask a male or your male friends ( best are the younger people ) how they feel about being demonised for something that mainly affects men, because I didnt realise that this didn't effect women much when compared to men and it eventually hit me when I began meeting victims of this demonisation, who are probably your otherwise average person, and we don't realise we reinforce this demonisation of young males everyday.

[Alvecia]

No it isn't. Violence implies inherent physicality and catcalling does not involve any physical contact.

Violence isn't inherently physical action; violence is also the intimidation by the exhibition of overpowering physical force.

Catcalling does not fit this criteria either.

[Felrik]

No it isn't. Violence implies inherent physicality and catcalling does not involve any physical contact.

Violence isn't inherently physical action; violence is also the intimidation by the exhibition of overpowering physical force.

"Sexual violence is defined as a sexual act committed against someone without that person's freely given consent. Sexual violence is divided into the following types: Completed or attempted forced penetration of a victim. Completed or attempted alcohol/drug-facilitated penetration of a victim.Apr 21, 2016"

I'm sorry what.

[Minzerland]

A misleading label for a concept, don't ya think? 'Rape culture' implies rape.

Every third post I seem to make in this thread is about how inaccurate the term is.[/,quote]
Are you sure it isn't because it's an inaccurate term?

Any proof as to whether this is true, or is this a general observation you made from anecdotes?

There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into. Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night. Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups. It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

Catcalling and walking home alone at night isn't sexual violence, they aren't innately violent; they cause no physical damage. Why the fuck a it listed as violent.

[Frenline Delpha]

Violence isn't inherently physical action; violence is also the intimidation by the exhibition of overpowering physical force.

Catcalling does not fit this criteria either.

Furthermore, catcalling can only be called harrasment if it is done multiple times by the same person and they've been asked to stop.

[Felrik]

No, but it does reinforce a culture where male sexual violence is normalised. I'd say catcalling is sexual violence, as is social sexual pressure at parties or other social gatherings, and this culture reinforcing mentalities that let teenage boys justify themselves to things like in Steubenville, Ohio is definitely sexual violence.

Catcalling?

Are you f***ing kidding me?

How is that violent?

In the Middle East etc. there's definitely a rape culture, in the west no, you could argue a Sub-Rape culture, but the main target of rape culture would be men, seeing as it's trivialised when they're raped.

I'm not a fan of Islam, but last I checked Islam punished rape through death penalty.

Sorry should have cleared it up, but I meant that rape is a larger problem there then here.

[Felrik]

I think he is suggesting rape is a larger problem in the middle East. Which it is.

And then you have Sweden....

That's what happens when you try to bring in people from a third world country and intergrate them into a extremely liberal country like Sweden.

[Costa Fierro]

There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into.

So you're making an assumption?

Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night.

The best advice you can give to anyone is no advice at all. We're not here so you can drop a few "home truths" on us. We're here to discuss whether or not rape culture exists in the West and it is evidently clear that it does not.

Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups.

Because it is. Feminism invented rape culture. Primarily it invented rape culture to ensure that women who were raped got better treatement from the authorities than men did.

It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

Women don't face this culture. This is what is so sad about people like you. You clearly have no idea that what you're posting is just bullshit guilt forced upon men because of the transgressions made by a few deranged criminals.

Are feminists going to devote all their time to defend and promote awareness of female on male rape? Fuck no. Feminists actively deny that men can be raped. To them, male rape doesn't exist and even if it did, men always want sex, so why would they say no to someone who offers it to them? And they're relying on you to buy into that stereotype that men cannot be raped so that they can continue to "liberate" or "empower" women by absolving them of any responsibility and any agency for their actions.

Face it man, you've basically castrated yourself by believing anything they've said.

[Arkolon]

Every third post I seem to make in this thread is about how inaccurate the term is.


There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into. Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night. Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups. It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

I suggest you go out and ask a male or your male friends ( best are the younger people ) how they feel about being demonised for something that mainly affects men, because I didnt realise that this didn't effect women much when compared to men and it eventually hit me when I began meeting victims of this demonisation, who are probably your otherwise average person, and we don't realise we reinforce this demonisation of young males everyday.

I am a male with many male friends. This would have been a witty comment if it made sense.

Every third post I seem to make in this thread is about how inaccurate the term is.[/,quote]
Are you sure it isn't because it's an inaccurate term?

There are no statistics - there can't be - and there are no scientific journals to peer into. Male culture in the West is pretty uniform, and I think the best advice I can give anyone who doesn't believe the things I'm saying to go ask a woman, or your female friends, about what they think the role of women is in male (especially teenage/young adult) culture and how they feel about catcalling or walking alone at night. Because I used to be the type of person that would post in this thread saying things like how I'd never do that, my friends wouldn't do that, this is bullshit made by interest groups. It eventually hit me when I began meeting victims, who are probably your otherwise average person, and women who face this culture that I, or others, reinforce(d) every day.

Catcalling and walking home alone at night isn't sexual violence, they aren't innately violent; they cause no physical damage. Why the fuck a it listed as violent.

No it isn't. Violence implies inherent physicality and catcalling does not involve any physical contact.

Violence isn't inherently physical action; violence is also the intimidation by the exhibition of overpowering physical force.

No, but it does reinforce a culture where male sexual violence is normalised. I'd say catcalling is sexual violence, as is social sexual pressure at parties or other social gatherings, and this culture reinforcing mentalities that let teenage boys justify themselves to things like in Steubenville, Ohio is definitely sexual violence.

Catcalling?

Are you f***ing kidding me?

How is that violent?

Out of interest, have you ever seen a woman, or women, being catcalled?

[Mattopilos]

And then you have Sweden....

That's what happens when you try to bring in people from a third world country and intergrate them into a extremely liberal country like Sweden.

Yeah, the culture is so different that there is bound to be issues in that way.