Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Arkolon]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

[New Owca]

Male rape, like female rape, is trivialised by a few vocal individual wankers. I will concede that male rape is not seen as seriously as female rape, but thatw a statistical thing and we all know that statistics can be very, very faulty. I've read that only around 10% of rapes occur to a male and thats obviously a faulty stat - men may be disinclined to report it or lack evidence to prove what happened.
On the other hand, I wouldnt say that the majority of people trivialise rape, male or female. Some people might not get it - my mum once thought that men couldnt get erect unless they wanted it, for an anecdotal example, and I doubt shes the only one - but the act of rape itself is seen as very serious, whether it happens to men or women.

Might I ask where you live? It might help me understand the cultural differences between yourself and I.

I am sorry but when I read about male rape many of the comments I see are about how the boy should be happy that his teacher raped him. We see rape trivialized all the time when it comes to prison rape. That video, the things he said, those comments are all to common. I live in Utah, and grew up in MD, to very different cultures...with the exact same problem.

The problem with Prison Rape is that its seen as a comuppance - something the prisoner deserves for what they did. I guess most people think of rapists and murderers as opposed to, say, dodgy bean counters and embezzlers. I had an argument with my Dad not that long ago. A woman had kidnapped a boy, tortured him and killed him. When she was convicted, a crowd of people threw eggs and stuff at her whilst the cops escorting her did nothing. Dad said that was okay, she deserved it. Its a common theme with prisoners in that they are acceptable targets to hurt or degrade - its not just rape and its not just men.

The kid being molested, and I have some experience with this, will result in thatat teacher will be dealt with according to her superiors, which is typically permanent suspension and a place on the sex offenders register. If it were a rape culture, that teacher would be free to do as she wished without punishment.

[New Owca]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

"Our Western Culture." Dont make me laugh. From my experience, western culture is the most open to violations of gender roles. Western Culture has fuck all to do with anything. It doesnt glorify female submission or "machism" at all. What evidence do you have?

[Neutraligon]

I am sorry but when I read about male rape many of the comments I see are about how the boy should be happy that his teacher raped him. We see rape trivialized all the time when it comes to prison rape. That video, the things he said, those comments are all to common. I live in Utah, and grew up in MD, to very different cultures...with the exact same problem.

The problem with Prison Rape is that its seen as a comuppance - something the prisoner deserves for what they did. I guess most people think of rapists and murderers as opposed to, say, dodgy bean counters and embezzlers. I had an argument with my Dad not that long ago. A woman had kidnapped a boy, tortured him and killed him. When she was convicted, a crowd of people threw eggs and stuff at her whilst the cops escorting her did nothing. Dad said that was okay, she deserved it. Its a common theme with prisoners in that they are acceptable targets to hurt or degrade - its not just rape and its not just men.

The kid being molested, and I have some experience with this, will result in thatat teacher will be dealt with according to her superiors, which is typically permanent suspension and a place on the sex offenders register. If it were a rape culture, that teacher would be free to do as she wished without punishment.

Incorrect, rape culture does not mean no one is punished, it is how people treat those who are raped, the excuses they make for the rapist, etc. The fact that a large group of commenters say that the boy should be proud of the fact she raped him is an aspect of rape culture. And, the idea that they deserve it because they are criminals is itself an aspect of rape culture, hell the idea that anyone deserves rape is quintessential rape culture.

[Pandeeria]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

Saying our culture tolerates, or even encourages rape, is one of the most ridiculous claims you can make. On the contrary, rape is seen as disgusting, horrible, and is illegal in all developed nations.

[Neutraligon]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

Saying our culture tolerates, or even encourages rape, is one of the most ridiculous claims you can make. On the contrary, rape is seen as disgusting, horrible, and is illegal in all developed nations.

Except when it comes to prison rape, or rape of teenage boys. Then the criminal deserves it, or the boy should be proud he got raped by that hot teacher.

[Arkolon]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

"Our Western Culture." Dont make me laugh. From my experience, western culture is the most open to violations of gender roles. Western Culture has fuck all to do with anything. It doesnt glorify female submission or "machism" at all. What evidence do you have?

Patriarchal family structure, double standard on virginity, and very fluid male social status are cornerstones of Western culture. Not sure what that has to do with Western culture being permissive about gender roles, a separate feminist struggle. I think I gave up the denialism after the first few times I saw catcalling in action, and the very telling expression when the offenders notice other men walking a bit behind their female friends. Sounds like a lot of things make you laugh, but it was witnessing these, obviously violent in nature, that made me stop laughing and treat the issue more seriously.

[Pandeeria]

Saying our culture tolerates, or even encourages rape, is one of the most ridiculous claims you can make. On the contrary, rape is seen as disgusting, horrible, and is illegal in all developed nations.

Except when it comes to prison rape, or rape of teenage boys. Then the criminal deserves it, or the boy should be proud he got raped by that hot teacher.

I don't think anyone really justifies when a guy in high schools sleeps with his teacher. Hell, the teacher at present is punished definitely by losing their job, and if the guy underaged, then jail time. I don't see how that is encouraging rape.

Prison rape is at our level of society seen as horrible. The fact you brought up is a sign that we view prison rape as bad. However, in prisons, where they're essentially another bubble of people with a different culture, I could see the argument of why there is rape culture there.

But in our general, western society, there is no rape culture.

[Arkolon]

I'd say so. I'm a straight, white male in a comfortable social strata so for a long time I could only consider violence against women something that is rare or far from our Western world, but after growing up, meeting women and getting out of my bubble I've come to notice that there is a real culture of male violence that's absolutely tolerated, if not culturally encouraged. Women aren't scared in a cowardly way, but they have every right to be fearful, since our Western cultural norms glorify machism and female submission. I'll be hopeful and say this never, or very rarely ever happens in the bubble where I am, and coincidentally where many NSers find themselves, but otherwise the fact that there are somethings women who walk streets alone have to get used to is scathing evidence enough, to me, to say there is a 'rape culture' in the way feminists use the term.

Saying our culture tolerates, or even encourages rape, is one of the most ridiculous claims you can make. On the contrary, rape is seen as disgusting, horrible, and is illegal in all developed nations.

Maybe 'rape culture' is a very inaccurate way to reduce the topic into a single term. Nowhere did I say that rape in and of itself is tolerated and encouraged, more that passive, subconscious and social violence/aggressiveness against women (which is what I believe feminists mean by 'rape culture') is tolerated and/or encouraged. We've all heard friends make the chloroform joke, we've all heard instances where a relationship ends when the sex does, we've all seen catcalling in action, and some of us know, unfortunately, more than a small number of people who would take advantage of a pretty, inebriated woman. It doesn't have to be you (judging by the typical NS demographic, which I belong to, we wouldn't even notice this existing had we not first read about the feminist cause online or in print), but just that this happens is symbolic of cultural tolerance of it all.

[The Kievan People]

Patriarchal family structure, double standard on virginity, and very fluid male social status are cornerstones of Western culture.

This is the entire world.

[Arkolon]

Patriarchal family structure, double standard on virginity, and very fluid male social status are cornerstones of Western culture.

This is the entire world.

After the arrival of the white man, yes. Many cultures do not have a patriarchal family structure (Mosuo, Manipur, even the Mayans to name three), virginity is very closely linked to Abrahamic culture, and social fluidity is an artefact of democratic society.

[Pandeeria]

Saying our culture tolerates, or even encourages rape, is one of the most ridiculous claims you can make. On the contrary, rape is seen as disgusting, horrible, and is illegal in all developed nations.

Maybe 'rape culture' is a very inaccurate way to reduce the topic into a single term. Nowhere did I say that rape in and of itself is tolerated and encouraged, more that passive, subconscious and social violence/aggressiveness against women (which is what I believe feminists mean by 'rape culture') is tolerated and/or encouraged. We've all heard friends make the chloroform joke, we've all heard instances where a relationship ends when the sex does, we've all seen catcalling in action, and some of us know, unfortunately, more than a small number of people who would take advantage of a pretty, inebriated woman. It doesn't have to be you (judging by the typical NS demographic, which I belong to, we wouldn't even notice this existing had we not first read about the feminist cause online or in print), but just that this happens is symbolic of cultural tolerance of it all.

Is everyone who makes a holocaust joke a Hitler-loving Nazi apologist? Is everyone who makes a black joke a racist, KKK-supporter?

[Arkolon]

Maybe 'rape culture' is a very inaccurate way to reduce the topic into a single term. Nowhere did I say that rape in and of itself is tolerated and encouraged, more that passive, subconscious and social violence/aggressiveness against women (which is what I believe feminists mean by 'rape culture') is tolerated and/or encouraged. We've all heard friends make the chloroform joke, we've all heard instances where a relationship ends when the sex does, we've all seen catcalling in action, and some of us know, unfortunately, more than a small number of people who would take advantage of a pretty, inebriated woman. It doesn't have to be you (judging by the typical NS demographic, which I belong to, we wouldn't even notice this existing had we not first read about the feminist cause online or in print), but just that this happens is symbolic of cultural tolerance of it all.

Is everyone who makes a holocaust joke a Hitler-loving Nazi apologist? Is everyone who makes a black joke a racist, KKK-supporter?

No, but every Holocaust joke is an insult to its victims and every black joke an insult to their struggle against discrimination.

[New Owca]

The problem with Prison Rape is that its seen as a comuppance - something the prisoner deserves for what they did. I guess most people think of rapists and murderers as opposed to, say, dodgy bean counters and embezzlers. I had an argument with my Dad not that long ago. A woman had kidnapped a boy, tortured him and killed him. When she was convicted, a crowd of people threw eggs and stuff at her whilst the cops escorting her did nothing. Dad said that was okay, she deserved it. Its a common theme with prisoners in that they are acceptable targets to hurt or degrade - its not just rape and its not just men.

The kid being molested, and I have some experience with this, will result in thatat teacher will be dealt with according to her superiors, which is typically permanent suspension and a place on the sex offenders register. If it were a rape culture, that teacher would be free to do as she wished without punishment.

Incorrect, rape culture does not mean no one is punished, it is how people treat those who are raped, the excuses they make for the rapist, etc. The fact that a large group of commenters say that the boy should be proud of the fact she raped him is an aspect of rape culture. And, the idea that they deserve it because they are criminals is itself an aspect of rape culture, hell the idea that anyone deserves rape is quintessential rape culture.

With ctiminals, it is a wish to cause pain. Rape causes pain. People like seeing criminals in pain. Shanking, breaking bones, rape - it doesnt matter. Its not the rape, its the pain aspect.

As for the kid, I dont really know what to say to that. I know any manager worth their salt would call in CPS and dismiss the teacher, but I dont how how big this group of commenters were or how old they were, etc. It could be a generational thing for all we know.

[The Alexanderians]

Except when it comes to prison rape, or rape of teenage boys. Then the criminal deserves it, or the boy should be proud he got raped by that hot teacher.

I don't think anyone really justifies when a guy in high schools sleeps with his teacher. Hell, the teacher at present is punished definitely by losing their job, and if the guy underaged, then jail time. I don't see how that is encouraging rape.

Prison rape is at our level of society seen as horrible. The fact you brought up is a sign that we view prison rape as bad. However, in prisons, where they're essentially another bubble of people with a different culture, I could see the argument of why there is rape culture there.

But in our general, western society, there is no rape culture.

Actually female teachers that have sex with students get much lighter prison sentences than the men who do the same.

[New Owca]

Is everyone who makes a holocaust joke a Hitler-loving Nazi apologist? Is everyone who makes a black joke a racist, KKK-supporter?

No, but every Holocaust joke is an insult to its victims and every black joke an insult to their struggle against discrimination.

Have you ever realised people use humour to get through bad times? You're too bloody sensitive...

[Arkolon]

No, but every Holocaust joke is an insult to its victims and every black joke an insult to their struggle against discrimination.

Have you ever realised people use humour to get through bad times? You're too bloody sensitive...

I'll let someone else have this bait.

[Hirota]

I don't think anyone really justifies when a guy in high schools sleeps with his teacher. Hell, the teacher at present is punished definitely by losing their job, and if the guy underaged, then jail time.

True in general, but evidence shows that women are sentenced less harshly than men for sex offences, and generally better through the whole process.

I don't see how that is encouraging rape.

Uh-huh. Thats not the definition as proposed in the OP. I'd argue the lax sentencing trends demonstrate an inclination to normalise rape by female perpetrators.

[The Kievan People]

After the arrival of the white man, yes. Many cultures do not have a patriarchal family structure (Mosuo, Manipur, even the Mayans to name three), virginity is very closely linked to Abrahamic culture, and social fluidity is an artefact of democratic society.

All known societies are and were partriarchal in the sense modern feminists understand it. Matrilineal family units did not change that men remained socially dominant over women, especially in sex.

There was absolutely no contradiction in a warrior from clan headed by a women going out and capturing some sex slaves. Respect for the mother is NOT the same as respect for women in general.

[The Serbian Empire]

Yes, but it's restricted to religious fundamentalist communities and prisons. Effectively, places where the only way to express power is to force one's self onto others. Otherwise, it's the actions of the individual and not the culture itself.

[New Owca]

This is the entire world.

After the arrival of the white man, yes. Many cultures do not have a patriarchal family structure (Mosuo, Manipur, even the Mayans to name three), virginity is very closely linked to Abrahamic culture, and social fluidity is an artefact of democratic society.

MEEEP, WRONG! The Basques, who were white, Europes first Absolutely Cognatic inheritence laws for a monarchy - in the middle ages. Celtic Tribes often used women warriors, as did the Mongols. Spartans valued their women, as "only Spartan women give birth to real men". I will concede that it is religious cultures that made virginity and shit valuable, but its not The White Man™ who caused these supposed negative attributes. Also, what Patriarchal Structure? Does that exist outside backwter puritanical cults anymore?

[New Owca]

Have you ever realised people use humour to get through bad times? You're too bloody sensitive...

I'll let someone else have this bait.

Nothibg is off limits to humour. Nothing at all. Thought crimes are not real crimes. How does it feel to be so weak that words can hurt you?

[Chikyo]

It seems to be less about a victim and taking care of them when it does happen and more about the outcry from third parties afterwards. I feel the numbers are very tampered with. this nonsense that what what it last? 1 in 5 women have or will be raped. its preposterous.

[Arkolon]

After the arrival of the white man, yes. Many cultures do not have a patriarchal family structure (Mosuo, Manipur, even the Mayans to name three), virginity is very closely linked to Abrahamic culture, and social fluidity is an artefact of democratic society.

All known societies are and were partriarchal in the sense modern feminists understand it. Matrilineal family units did not change that men remained socially dominant over women, especially in sex.

There was absolutely no contradiction in a warrior from clan headed by a women going out and capturing some sex slaves. Respect for the mother is NOT the same as respect for women in general.

The matriarch (Ah mi, or elder female, in Chinese) is the head of the house. The Ah mi has absolute power;[6] she decides the fate of all those living under her roof. The matriarch also manages the money and jobs of each family member.[8] When the Ah mi wishes to pass her duties on to the next generation, she will give this female successor the keys to the household storage,[6] signifying the passing on of property rights and responsibility.

The Mosuo are the textbook example.

Also note that I emphasised the patriarchal family structure, admittedly men dominate Mosuo politics but that falls out of the scope of family structure.

[MERIZoC]

No, but every Holocaust joke is an insult to its victims and every black joke an insult to their struggle against discrimination.

Have you ever realised people use humour to get through bad times? You're too bloody sensitive...

Humor about a horrible event, when it is used as a means of coping, or outlook, has to actually do those things. Alt right memes aren't about coping with trauma, or knocking the person who inflicted it down a peg. They're taking an oppressed group and making them the butt of a joke. Its pretty pathetic really.

Now, are these jokes the end of the world? No, of course not. But to get back to the topic of the thread, they contribute to a culture, where we're at the very least desensitized to something. And eventually its gonna become subconsciously acceptable. When we talk about rape culture we aren't talking about people trying to make rape legal or any nonsense like that. We're talking about people making excuses, blaming victims, all sorts of things.