Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Neutraligon]

It does, unfortunately all statistics of that time would use the definition of rape that ignores forced to penetrate. It was only recently the definition was changed.

I would then consider gender based statistic before the change invalid. The ones of women specifically would still be valid I imagine (for reported rape atleast) but the ones for men hold absolutely no meaning then.

I would also hold them a suspect, at least the ones about men as victims. I think the FBI changed it only in 2012.

[Quokkastan]

This Question Can Be Answered By Looking At The News And All These Shows That Depict SUCH.

Why Are We Writing Like THIS?

[Neutraligon]

Which is what I consider rape culture. I do not see rape culture as exclusive to women. While I think there are still aspects of rape culture that women face, I think at this point men face higher instances of it.

If more feminists had this perspective they would not be facing the opposition they face. A lot of converts to anti-feminism are there because of this sort of issue.

I think more of us do but we tend to go about our business more quietly and actually helping the victims. As I mentioned previously I call myself a feminist though I do not go to the rallies and am not part of a major group, though I am part of a minor group. I think many who have given up the word feminist hold similar ideas, but like me are disgusted by the Anita Sarkeesians and Lacy Greens. I hold onto the word trying to fight the stupidity put forth by the louder more obnoxious feminists. At some point though, I might end up giving it up if the group moves further and further away from the views I hold.

[Zottistan]

The actual figure is closer to one in eight.

Which is still high enough that I don't understand why you people have to lie to get your point across. One in eight women in a civilized nation being victims of sexual assault is atrocious and completely unacceptable. One in two just isn't believable and destroys your credibility.

The vast majority of women are sexually assaulted in thier lifetime, and a lot of it happens in the college setting. The fact that you find it doubtful doesn't discredit me, it just highlights the biases that patriarchy perpetuate. Women are simply not believed, and sexual assault is always narrowly defined. Sexual assault is unwanted contact, and includes things like groping, staring, cat calling, and non consensual sex. People shrug this off, but even things like the yes/no paradigm propagate rape. Yes doesn't always mean yes, especially when inebriating substances are involved. But this is irrelevant as people disregard women in these situations as having made 'bad decisions' and thus marginalize thier experience of rape.

Do you have access to the study or studies where the 1/2 figure was found? Because if you do I'd like to see it and I'd be happy to point out to you how academic feminists have once again lied to the movement as a whole and bullied anybody who disagreed into silence

[Chestaan]

Have you ever seen the IT Crowd? There's an episode where one of the guys is sexually assaulted by a male masseuse (sorry, I can't remember which of the terms masseuse or masseur refers to men). Basically the main female character finds it hilarious.

Also, in Family Guy, Lois rapes Peter violently and it's portrayed as being absolutely hilarious.

In Family Guy, Stewie brutally assaults Brian and it's portrayed as being absolutely hilarious. Your point? This scene from the IT Crowd might be indicative of something, but Family Guy tends to just make violence funny. It's a thing.

Violence and rape are not the same thing. Also, if it had been Peter that had brutally raped Lois, would the audience have found that to be as funny?

[New Edom]

If more feminists had this perspective they would not be facing the opposition they face. A lot of converts to anti-feminism are there because of this sort of issue.

I think more of us do but we tend to go about our business more quietly and actually helping the victims. As I mentioned previously I call myself a feminist though I do not go to the rallies and am not part of a major group, though I am part of a minor group. I think many who have given up the word feminist hold similar ideas, but like me are disgusted by the Anita Sarkeesians and Lacy Greens. I hold onto the word trying to fight the stupidity put forth by the louder more obnoxious feminists. At some point though, I might end up giving it up if the group moves further and further away from the views I hold.

How do you feel about the fact that major NGOs, liberal/leftist government leaders and academic departments support the Sarkeesian/Green type of perspective? I was just looking at a syllabus for a set of courses which focus on the highly questionable 'ancient matriarchy' theory, so that's still going on.

As a comparison when Same Sex Marriage began to become an issue, Christians had to choose how to respond. Some have chosen to stay totally conseravtive, some even radically so, others have been moderate and tolerant, others have been moderate but made it clear that practices in their Churches will not change though they will support the state's laws, while still others have chosen to embrace SSM. If you take a quick look at the isue this is very clear. This is not so clear in feminism. The voices of feminists like yourself seem entirely marginalized or silenced.

[Galloism]

Don't move the goalposts - we were talking about rape, not "sex abuse" - a much broader category.

Even "sex abuse" is not as disparate as you probably think.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

In 2011, the CDC reported in the last 12 months, 1,929,000 women were raped, while 1,921,000 men were "made to penetrate" which, likely thanks to the sexist work of Mary Koss, was not considered rape, although it damn well should be. Whether an act constitutes rape or not should not depend on the gender of the perpetrator and victim.

Now, you head down to the other sexual violence categories and it's certainly more disparate - but not as much as you might think. 2,389,000 women were coerced sexually, compared with 1,495,000 men. 2,687,000 women suffered unwanted sexual contact, compared with 1,777,000 men. 4,046,000 women suffered noncontact unwanted sexual experiences, compared with 2,829,000 men.

It's all in the report.

Wasn't it only recently that rape started to include made to penetrate? Before that the only way a man could be raped is by another man.

According to the CDC, it still doesn't.

Thank you Mary Koss!

[Setgavarius]

Anywhere people think that what we call rape is normal life and a-okay has a rape culture.

[Wallenburg]

In Family Guy, Stewie brutally assaults Brian and it's portrayed as being absolutely hilarious. Your point? This scene from the IT Crowd might be indicative of something, but Family Guy tends to just make violence funny. It's a thing.

Violence and rape are not the same thing.

Rape is violence. I fail to see how Family Guy's pattern of making a joke of violence is irrelevant when discussing its portrayal of rape.

Also, if it had been Peter that had brutally raped Lois, would the audience have found that to be as funny?

Depends on how they would write it.

[Wallenburg]

According to the CDC, it still doesn't.

Thank you Mary Koss!

Sauce?

[Chestaan]

Violence and rape are not the same thing.

Rape is violence. I fail to see how Family Guy's pattern of making a joke of violence is irrelevant when discussing its portrayal of rape.

Also, if it had been Peter that had brutally raped Lois, would the audience have found that to be as funny?

Depends on how they would write it.

Rape is a form of violence. Some forms of violence are worse than others and less humorous than others as I'm sure we can all agree.

How about if they portrayed it the exact same was as they did with Lois raping Peter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniODOXtqaE

[Neutraligon]

I think more of us do but we tend to go about our business more quietly and actually helping the victims. As I mentioned previously I call myself a feminist though I do not go to the rallies and am not part of a major group, though I am part of a minor group. I think many who have given up the word feminist hold similar ideas, but like me are disgusted by the Anita Sarkeesians and Lacy Greens. I hold onto the word trying to fight the stupidity put forth by the louder more obnoxious feminists. At some point though, I might end up giving it up if the group moves further and further away from the views I hold.

How do you feel about the fact that major NGOs, liberal/leftist government leaders and academic departments support the Sarkeesian/Green type of perspective? I was just looking at a syllabus for a set of courses which focus on the highly questionable 'ancient matriarchy' theory, so that's still going on.

As I said I do not lie nor support most of what Anita says, and the few things I do agree with are more minor. I do not like that many organizations support her.

As a comparison when Same Sex Marriage began to become an issue, Christians had to choose how to respond. Some have chosen to stay totally conseravtive, some even radically so, others have been moderate and tolerant, others have been moderate but made it clear that practices in their Churches will not change though they will support the state's laws, while still others have chosen to embrace SSM. If you take a quick look at the isue this is very clear. This is not so clear in feminism. The voices of feminists like yourself seem entirely marginalized or silenced.

I agree, it is sad. And as more leave, the more marginalized and silenced we become. At some point you just get tired. At some point the group stop representing you, and I am getting really really close to that point. That marginalization is why I write in forums and make youtube comments (I am rather camera shy and bad at speaking so I don't make videos).

[Chestaan]

How do you feel about the fact that major NGOs, liberal/leftist government leaders and academic departments support the Sarkeesian/Green type of perspective? I was just looking at a syllabus for a set of courses which focus on the highly questionable 'ancient matriarchy' theory, so that's still going on.

As I said I do not lie nor support most of what Anita says, and the few things I do agree with are more minor. I do not like that many organizations support her.

As a comparison when Same Sex Marriage began to become an issue, Christians had to choose how to respond. Some have chosen to stay totally conseravtive, some even radically so, others have been moderate and tolerant, others have been moderate but made it clear that practices in their Churches will not change though they will support the state's laws, while still others have chosen to embrace SSM. If you take a quick look at the isue this is very clear. This is not so clear in feminism. The voices of feminists like yourself seem entirely marginalized or silenced.

I agree, it is sad. And as more leave, the more marginalized and silenced we become. At some point you just get tired. At some point the group stop representing you, and I am getting really really close to that point.

Have you found that many have been moving away from the organisation in recent times? And if so, what has driven them away?

[Galloism]

According to the CDC, it still doesn't.

Thank you Mary Koss!

Sauce?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

[Neutraligon]

As I said I do not lie nor support most of what Anita says, and the few things I do agree with are more minor. I do not like that many organizations support her.

I agree, it is sad. And as more leave, the more marginalized and silenced we become. At some point you just get tired. At some point the group stop representing you, and I am getting really really close to that point.

Have you found that many have been moving away from the organisation in recent times? And if so, what has driven them away?

Those like me, yes, and for precisely the reason listed above. The group is less and less representing us. Many of us strongly disagree with the authoritarianism that those like Anita represent, and unfortunately that group seems to be more of the mainstream. I would say we are leaving because we are being pushed out.

[Chestaan]

Have you found that many have been moving away from the organisation in recent times? And if so, what has driven them away?

Those like me, yes, and for precisely the reason listed above. The group is less and less representing us. Many of us strongly disagree with the authoritarianism that those like Anita represent, and unfortunately that group seems to be more of the mainstream. I would say we are leaving because we are being pushed out.

That is quite a sad turn of events. From your posts, I would be much happier to see more feminists like you. I might even call myself one if that was the case.

[Wallenburg]

Rape is a form of violence. Some forms of violence are worse than others and less humorous than others as I'm sure we can all agree.

Not really. In real life, violence is inherently unfunny. In storytelling, it can be made humorous based on context, behavior, and portrayal. The type of violence that it is has little to do with it.

How about if they portrayed it the exact same was as they did with Lois raping Peter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniODOXtqaE

That's not really all that funny to begin with, just weird. I'd say it would elicit the same reaction from me if the roles were reversed. That is, "why can't I see half the video, and why is the half that I can see supposed to be funny?"

Sauce?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

That's from 2011.

[Chestaan]

Rape is a form of violence. Some forms of violence are worse than others and less humorous than others as I'm sure we can all agree.

Not really. In real life, violence is inherently unfunny. In storytelling, it can be made humorous based on context, behavior, and portrayal. The type of violence that it is has little to do with it.

How about if they portrayed it the exact same was as they did with Lois raping Peter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniODOXtqaE

That's not really all that funny to begin with, just weird. I'd say it would elicit the same reaction from me if the roles were reversed. That is, "why can't I see half the video, and why is the half that I can see supposed to be funny?"

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

That's from 2011.

I agree that it's not funny, but I think it must be the case that some people do find it funny.

[MERIZoC]

Yes. We can see it in the Brock Turner case, or more recently, the Colorado case. We can see it every time someone says "she was asking for it". We can see it every time someone says "well you shouldn't have dressed like that, shouldn't have gotten drunk". We see it when male rape is dismissed out of hand because men are strong, sexual beings who should have just enjoyed it, and when female rape is dismissed because she made some mistake and its her fault. We can see it in rape threats, or, to a lesser extent, rape jokes, and childish insults. Rape culture isn't about saying rape is ok and perfectly fine and should be legal, its about making excuses.

[Neutraligon]

Those like me, yes, and for precisely the reason listed above. The group is less and less representing us. Many of us strongly disagree with the authoritarianism that those like Anita represent, and unfortunately that group seems to be more of the mainstream. I would say we are leaving because we are being pushed out.

That is quite a sad turn of events. From your posts, I would be much happier to see more feminists like you. I might even call myself one if that was the case.

Oh the view I put forth here are not necessarily part of my feminism. Here's the thing I do not see supporting feminism and supporting men's rights as exclusive. However, I do not necessarily see supporting men's rights as a part of feminism, the same way I do not see how an African American group needs to support say, Native American issues. I call myself a feminist because I support certain women's issues, and equality for women within those issues. If there was a similar group for men I would also be a part of that group (since the group of tutors I am in has somewhat expanded what we do) for the same reason.

My problem with many of the rather loud and obnoxious feminists is not that they do not support men's rights as feminists, my issue with them in particular is that they actively harm men's rights, and say that it is a part of feminism to do so.

[Wallenburg]

I agree that it's not funny, but I think it must be the case that some people do find it funny.

Some people find child murder funny.

[Chestaan]

That is quite a sad turn of events. From your posts, I would be much happier to see more feminists like you. I might even call myself one if that was the case.

Oh the view I put forth here are not necessarily part of my feminism. Here's the thing I do not see supporting feminism and supporting men's rights as exclusive. However, I do not necessarily see supporting men's rights as a part of feminism, the same way I do not see how an African American group needs to support say, Native American issues. I call myself a feminist because I support certain women's issues, and equality for women within those issues. If there was a similar group for men I would also be a part of that group (since the group of tutors I am in has somewhat expanded what we do) for the same reason.

I would be happy to support feminism that took that form. Sadly, at the moment, I don't think the feminist movement is much like that. Specifically I am sick of the attitude that if you bring up men's issues that you are against women or somehow a misogynist.

[Galloism]

Rape is a form of violence. Some forms of violence are worse than others and less humorous than others as I'm sure we can all agree.

Not really. In real life, violence is inherently unfunny. In storytelling, it can be made humorous based on context, behavior, and portrayal. The type of violence that it is has little to do with it.

How about if they portrayed it the exact same was as they did with Lois raping Peter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DniODOXtqaE

That's not really all that funny to begin with, just weird. I'd say it would elicit the same reaction from me if the roles were reversed. That is, "why can't I see half the video, and why is the half that I can see supposed to be funny?"

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtm ... ss6308a1_e

That's from 2011.

It's the most recent report. No report has been released since the 2011 report.

[Neutraligon]

Oh the view I put forth here are not necessarily part of my feminism. Here's the thing I do not see supporting feminism and supporting men's rights as exclusive. However, I do not necessarily see supporting men's rights as a part of feminism, the same way I do not see how an African American group needs to support say, Native American issues. I call myself a feminist because I support certain women's issues, and equality for women within those issues. If there was a similar group for men I would also be a part of that group (since the group of tutors I am in has somewhat expanded what we do) for the same reason.

I would be happy to support feminism that took that form. Sadly, at the moment, I don't think the feminist movement is much like that. Specifically I am sick of the attitude that if you bring up men's issues that you are against women or somehow a misogynist.

I made an edit that is rather important here

My problem with many of the rather loud and obnoxious feminists is not that they do not support men's rights as feminists, my issue with them in particular is that they actively harm men's rights, and say that it is a part of feminism to do so.

So yeah, I agree with you. I have a big issue with where mainstream feminism is heading. I keep the word because in my own way I am trying to fight against it. Problem is I and many like me are not interested in going on news shows or making videos of ourselves.

[Wallenburg]

It's the most recent report. No report has been released since the 2011 report.

That's quite unfortunate. I guess that might be another thing that Congress has prohibited the CDC from researching.