Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Alvecia]

Rape culture implies that Rape is a normal part of our culture...

don't know about you but unless you live in your parents basement or just don't have a social life you would know that 99% of people would say that is bullshit.

Exactly.

Eh.
Culture doesn't have to be a big thing. It can also be quite small. Workplace culture for example can take place in an office with revatively miniscule amounts of people compared to the national or global scale.

These little cultures can also coexist within the larger community culture.

[Settrah]

Exactly.

Eh.
Culture doesn't have to be a big thing. It can also be quite small. Workplace culture for example can take place in an office with revatively miniscule amounts of people compared to the national or global scale.

These little cultures can also coexist within the larger community culture.

Except people don't talk about rape culture as if it was a small thing.

[Mattopilos]

Eh.
Culture doesn't have to be a big thing. It can also be quite small. Workplace culture for example can take place in an office with revatively miniscule amounts of people compared to the national or global scale.

These little cultures can also coexist within the larger community culture.

Except people don't talk about rape culture as if it was a small thing.

The issue is the very phrase is vague. Culture can be ANY type of culture of any size and any place.

[Alvecia]

Eh.
Culture doesn't have to be a big thing. It can also be quite small. Workplace culture for example can take place in an office with revatively miniscule amounts of people compared to the national or global scale.

These little cultures can also coexist within the larger community culture.

Except people don't talk about rape culture as if it was a small thing.

What people talk about doesn't define what it can be.

[Nazeroth]

There is no rape culture for it implies acceptance...

now if you look at some Islamic nations and how their women are treated...that's rape culture.

[Settrah]

There is no rape culture for it implies acceptance...

now if you look at some Islamic nations and how their women are treated...that's rape culture.

Or in other words, freedom of religion.

[Jello Biafra]

My point was that rape isn't something that's widely accepted and praised as a normalised and OK practice, which is what a rape culture would be, which is what people try to paint it as. A rape subculture might exist in some form, but it's not widely accepted and is very likely an undesirable anomie to the general social context. I don't agree that we're in a culture that accepts and rewards rape. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but more people are offended and against rape than those that champion it.

But you'll always get sociopaths. No amount of feminist literature will ever change that.

If the people who rape are sociopaths, and the people who admire rapists are sociopaths, what percentage of people are you viewing as being sociopaths?
Also, what would be your definition of 'widely accepted' with regard to rape?

[Frenline Delpha]

My point was that rape isn't something that's widely accepted and praised as a normalised and OK practice, which is what a rape culture would be, which is what people try to paint it as. A rape subculture might exist in some form, but it's not widely accepted and is very likely an undesirable anomie to the general social context. I don't agree that we're in a culture that accepts and rewards rape. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but more people are offended and against rape than those that champion it.

But you'll always get sociopaths. No amount of feminist literature will ever change that.

If the people who rape are sociopaths, and the people who admire rapists are sociopaths, what percentage of people are you viewing as being sociopaths?
Also, what would be your definition of 'widely accepted' with regard to rape?

Less than the amount of transgenders in the world.

[Settrah]

If the people who rape are sociopaths, and the people who admire rapists are sociopaths, what percentage of people are you viewing as being sociopaths?
Also, what would be your definition of 'widely accepted' with regard to rape?

Less than the amount of transgenders in the world.

I'd put sociopathy as much higher and more statistically frequent than that, personally.

For clarification. When I say widely accepted in regards to rape, I'm talking about the notion of a whole culture rewarding sexual assault as something worthy of respect. Unfortunately, you do get individuals like this, but I don't know of any whole communities in this day and age with this attitude.

[Sheariliik]

Yes, in the sense that their are cultural attitudes/groups that condone, trivialize, or turn a blind eye toward rape.

However, they are not the entirety of our current culture, and I'm not convinced they're the majority, though that may be just idealism/optimism speaking.

So, bottom line, rape culture exists, but some people overestimate its prominence somewhat.

What "cultural attitudes" are there that trivialize rape? Though this is anecdotal, do you know any man that would not be outraged by actual rape? Why isn't rape more common if nobody cares whether or not it happens. Why have two of the most vocal celebrities about rape culture, Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer, both of whom claim to have been raped (it's more likely that Dunham actually raped her sister; she discusses it in Not That Kind of Girl), never filed a police report, and only talk about it on twitter, and actively try to prevent actual rape victims from going to the only people who can make things right, the police, and instead suggest ranting about it on twitter? Before cultural attitudes about punishment for crimes changed, people were often killed for committing such a heinous act. Its the same feminists who actively suggest that there is a pervasive "rape culture" in the United States that also suggest that we should get rid of the death penalty and harsher sentences. Meanwhile, serious men and women debate [url=abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3985832]the merits of castrating rapists[/url] to prevent them from ever such a reprehensible crime again.

What he said!

[New Edom]

Less than the amount of transgenders in the world.

I'd put sociopathy as much higher and more statistically frequent than that, personally.

For clarification. When I say widely accepted in regards to rape, I'm talking about the notion of a whole culture rewarding sexual assault as something worthy of respect. Unfortunately, you do get individuals like this, but I don't know of any whole communities in this day and age with this attitude.

I think you're right, but I'd add to that that the supposedly strong culture of victim blaming, ignoring victims' rights, objectification leading to rape, etc, is a confused mess. How can objectification lead to rape but how a victim dresses cannot? How can we blame victims to the point of insnaity while getting infuriated that a victim was raped? The insistence that it is ONLY this 'rape culture' dea that happens is simply a theory taken out of proportion, which we must remember was put on the map by radical feminists who believed in patriarchy theory and insisted that that theory should inform public policy regarding women's rights.

[Jello Biafra]

For clarification. When I say widely accepted in regards to rape, I'm talking about the notion of a whole culture rewarding sexual assault as something worthy of respect. Unfortunately, you do get individuals like this, but I don't know of any whole communities in this day and age with this attitude.

Is there any attitude that 100% of the people in a given community share the same opinion of?

[Frenline Delpha]

For clarification. When I say widely accepted in regards to rape, I'm talking about the notion of a whole culture rewarding sexual assault as something worthy of respect. Unfortunately, you do get individuals like this, but I don't know of any whole communities in this day and age with this attitude.

Is there any attitude that 100% of the people in a given community share the same opinion of?

No, but there are opinions that less than 1% of any given community agree on.

[Jello Biafra]

The idea that rape is solely about power and not sex is a highly disputed one. I posted research on this earlier in the thread, bare with me while I find it as I am on my phone.

Edit: This link for now but I have others:

http://quillette.com/2016/01/02/to-rape ... not-power/

If rapists are primarily motivated by the desire for power and domination, then one would expect them to prefer middle-aged, career women.

This doesn't follow.

[Nazeroth]

There is no rape culture for it implies acceptance...

now if you look at some Islamic nations and how their women are treated...that's rape culture.

Or in other words, freedom of religion.

In their minds maybe

[Chestaan]

The idea that rape is solely about power and not sex is a highly disputed one. I posted research on this earlier in the thread, bare with me while I find it as I am on my phone.

Edit: This link for now but I have others:

http://quillette.com/2016/01/02/to-rape ... not-power/

If rapists are primarily motivated by the desire for power and domination, then one would expect them to prefer middle-aged, career women.

This doesn't follow.

Even without that part, it still makes a good case that sex is a motive behind rape. If rape has nothing to do with sex, then how come it is the young that are mostly the victims of rape? Surely if someone was just in it for the power then the best targets would be the old and frail who cannot defend themselves?

[CyberSomalia]

No.

And if there is a rape culture, it's the fault of the boomers.

[New Edom]

This doesn't follow.

Even without that part, it still makes a good case that sex is a motive behind rape. If rape has nothing to do with sex, then how come it is the young that are mostly the victims of rape? Surely if someone was just in it for the power then the best targets would be the old and frail who cannot defend themselves?

I agree. Furthermore, when it takes place among other social animals, the primary purpose is mating. Rape is not really unnatural, it's anti-social.

Also as you said, what difference does it make? It ONLY makes a difference if you're pushing the rape culture/patriarchy theory model, which stresses that dealing with the social issues is the best way to deal with rape. I disagree. Its a criminal matter and should be treated as such. With criminal matters, the basic impulses--the desire to own things, the right to be frustrated or angry at events or people, transportation and driving, in other words other majojr areas of crime--are soley jdged as criminal based on the respect for the property and person of others, and that's good enough as a starting point.

[Amadel]

More "crying wolf" rape culture than actual rape culture. For genuine rape culture and patriarchy, as well as any regimes where women are treated as second class citizens, I refer you to Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Western society, with all it's flaws and faults, is nowhere near these extremes to be labeled a patriarchy, or being mysoginist towards women.

[Settrah]

More "crying wolf" rape culture than actual rape culture. For genuine rape culture and patriarchy, as well as any regimes where women are treated as second class citizens, I refer you to Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Western society, with all it's flaws and faults, is nowhere near these extremes to be labeled a patriarchy, or being mysoginist towards women.

True. But hey, middle class white tumblrette pseudo intellectuals need to feel victimised somehow.

[New Edom]

More "crying wolf" rape culture than actual rape culture. For genuine rape culture and patriarchy, as well as any regimes where women are treated as second class citizens, I refer you to Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Western society, with all it's flaws and faults, is nowhere near these extremes to be labeled a patriarchy, or being mysoginist towards women.

True. But hey, middle class white tumblrette pseudo intellectuals need to feel victimised somehow.

I've given this a lot of thought, and I suspect it is more about a sense of general guilt than anything else often combined with a sense of shock and a sense of outrage. However it often goes in the wrong direction and attacks anything resembling its possible enemies. So yeah, being outraged about sexual assault is actually a good thing. Not being able to distinguish between callousness about sexual assault and people just having a different view on handling it than you do is simply stupid. There isn't a giant Anti-Rape God in the sky telling people what is right and wrong; it's something people need to figure out.

[Settrah]

True. But hey, middle class white tumblrette pseudo intellectuals need to feel victimised somehow.

I've given this a lot of thought, and I suspect it is more about a sense of general guilt than anything else often combined with a sense of shock and a sense of outrage. However it often goes in the wrong direction and attacks anything resembling its possible enemies. So yeah, being outraged about sexual assault is actually a good thing. Not being able to distinguish between callousness about sexual assault and people just having a different view on handling it than you do is simply stupid. There isn't a giant Anti-Rape God in the sky telling people what is right and wrong; it's something people need to figure out.

I think it's important that people know exactly what they're opposing. Sexual assault is terrible, and no one should have to go through it. And by all means, fight the enemy. But creating a global perception that the whole world encourages rape, and will praise your rapist, is not a great mindset to thrust upon naive and impressionable youths. IMO.

[Conserative Morality]

More "crying wolf" rape culture than actual rape culture. For genuine rape culture and patriarchy, as well as any regimes where women are treated as second class citizens, I refer you to Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Western society, with all it's flaws and faults, is nowhere near these extremes to be labeled a patriarchy, or being mysoginist towards women.

"Other places are worse" /=/ a defense

Western society can be misogynistic without being anywhere near as bad or misogynistic as other societies. Doesn't mean we should ignore it.

[New Edom]

I've given this a lot of thought, and I suspect it is more about a sense of general guilt than anything else often combined with a sense of shock and a sense of outrage. However it often goes in the wrong direction and attacks anything resembling its possible enemies. So yeah, being outraged about sexual assault is actually a good thing. Not being able to distinguish between callousness about sexual assault and people just having a different view on handling it than you do is simply stupid. There isn't a giant Anti-Rape God in the sky telling people what is right and wrong; it's something people need to figure out.

I think it's important that people know exactly what they're opposing. Sexual assault is terrible, and no one should have to go through it. And by all means, fight the enemy. But creating a global perception that the whole world encourages rape, and will praise your rapist, is not a great mindset to thrust upon naive and impressionable youths. IMO.

Too many of the people promoting these ideas are:
1. Radical feminists with an ideological agenda
2. Leftist reactionaries striking at their political opponents
3. Liberal opportunists striking at their opponents
4. Conservative opportunists striking at their opponents
5. Ignorant people who just swallow what they were told in a Gender Studies program
6. People who have been hurt in life and are given a simple reciple or solution for it
7. People who are afraid of evil in the world and stand behind an ideology to protect them

A nice mess, huh?

[Ashkenazima]

There is a real "rape culture."
It exists in the world of pornography; not the whole thing by any means, but there is a part of it that embraces violent sex acts. There is also sex trafficking culture.

Outside of that though, there is sex, a lack of self control, and blatant idiocy. It's not the patriarchy's fault if you get drunk, willingly go home with a guy, and wake up with regrets. The lack of personal responsibility and self control in this society is simply astonishing.