Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Nariterrr]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

[Charmera]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

How is it undeniable? And which college campuses?
And I agree that educating is great and all, but we already do that quite a bit.

[Conservatarian States]

Germany is becoming sort of a rape culture, but only idiots say there is in the United States.

[Frenline Delpha]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

How is it undeniable? And which college campuses?
And I agree that educating is great and all, but we already do that quite a bit.

Ze facts told him so. They descended on high and said, "Listen and believe te facts!"

[Gravlen]

Is that really a feminist idea?

I can mention that David Lisak, whom you've referenced before, also claim that convicted rapists are measurably more angry at women and more motivated by a desire to dominate and control them than non-rapists.

To quote from Understanding the Predatory Nature of Sexual Violence where he states that on page 6, he also has this to say on page 3:

Motivations and Taxonomies
One of the most important contributions made by the study of incarcerated sex offenders was the clarification of the role of sexuality in the perpetration of rape. Since rape involves sexual behavior, it was long believed to be primarily motivated by sexual impulse; deviant sexual impulse, but sexual impulse nonetheless. This confusion of context with motivation was clarified mainly by the work of Nicholas Groth, who published a typology of rapists in the 1970’s. Groth labeled each type based on the principle motivation manifested by the rapists in that group.

The two primary and numerically largest types identified by Groth were the “power” rapist and the “anger” rapist. The power rapist was motivated by his need to control and dominate his victim, and inversely, to avoid being controlled by her. The anger rapist was motivated by resentment and a general hostility towards women, and was more prone to inflicting gratuitous violence in the course of a rape. Not surprisingly, these types were rarely found in pure form. Most rapists were actually blends of power and anger motivations; however, a predominance of one or the other was often discernible.

The third and (thankfully) numerically far smaller type was the sadistic rapist. This rapist was motivated by the sexual gratification he experienced when he inflicted pain on his victim. The sadistic rapist has become a staple of the American media, but these, once again, extremely rare cases.

Groth’s identification of anger and power as the primary motivations behind rape has endured, and has become the basis for attempts at defining more refined taxonomies of rape. These efforts have largely yielded modest results, and have focused on identifying blends of power and anger motivations, and on distinguishing developmental antecedents for the various types. Not surprisingly, among those developmental antecedents, one of the most prominent is a history of childhood abuse. Sexual abuse, physical abuse and neglect are all significantly more prevalent in the backgrounds of rapists than in the backgrounds of non-offending men.

Was Nicholas Groth, Ph.D. a clinical psychologist, also a feminist? Possibly. Does this make it a feminist idea? If so, how?

I actually think there is merit in their work regarding some criminal subjects, but not all. I've been studying and reflecting on their work, and while I'm impressed at the same time I am skeptical about eleemnts of it. One is that psychology is a changing field. However all I'm saying about Turner is that this man, who as far as I can tell has not been diagnosed by anyone is being said by some who are angry with him to have the character of a rapist, as though ONLY such people could ever commit a rape. I'm just skeptical about that.

On the other hand, I actually wish that Lisak was taken more seriously when people are talking about this subject, as he's less inclined to focus on culture and more on the behaviour of habitual rapists, who RAINN argues commit most rapes.

Deliberate attempt at avoiding the question I see, so since you chose not to even try to answer we'll make another go at it:

Most people seem to have fallen for the feminist idea that rape is about power and not about sex.

Is that really a feminist idea?

I can mention that David Lisak, whom you've referenced before, also claim that convicted rapists are measurably more angry at women and more motivated by a desire to dominate and control them than non-rapists.

To quote from Understanding the Predatory Nature of Sexual Violence where he states that on page 6, he also has this to say on page 3:

Motivations and Taxonomies
One of the most important contributions made by the study of incarcerated sex offenders was the clarification of the role of sexuality in the perpetration of rape. Since rape involves sexual behavior, it was long believed to be primarily motivated by sexual impulse; deviant sexual impulse, but sexual impulse nonetheless. This confusion of context with motivation was clarified mainly by the work of Nicholas Groth, who published a typology of rapists in the 1970’s. Groth labeled each type based on the principle motivation manifested by the rapists in that group.

The two primary and numerically largest types identified by Groth were the “power” rapist and the “anger” rapist. The power rapist was motivated by his need to control and dominate his victim, and inversely, to avoid being controlled by her. The anger rapist was motivated by resentment and a general hostility towards women, and was more prone to inflicting gratuitous violence in the course of a rape. Not surprisingly, these types were rarely found in pure form. Most rapists were actually blends of power and anger motivations; however, a predominance of one or the other was often discernible.

The third and (thankfully) numerically far smaller type was the sadistic rapist. This rapist was motivated by the sexual gratification he experienced when he inflicted pain on his victim. The sadistic rapist has become a staple of the American media, but these, once again, extremely rare cases.

Groth’s identification of anger and power as the primary motivations behind rape has endured, and has become the basis for attempts at defining more refined taxonomies of rape. These efforts have largely yielded modest results, and have focused on identifying blends of power and anger motivations, and on distinguishing developmental antecedents for the various types. Not surprisingly, among those developmental antecedents, one of the most prominent is a history of childhood abuse. Sexual abuse, physical abuse and neglect are all significantly more prevalent in the backgrounds of rapists than in the backgrounds of non-offending men.

Was Nicholas Groth, Ph.D. a clinical psychologist, also a feminist? Possibly. Does this make it a feminist idea? If so, how?

So how is the idea that rape is about power and not about sex a "feminist idea"?

[Jello Biafra]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

I think the point of asking this question is that it's necessary to identify the problem is before you can solve it. Of course, deterring rape culture is something I'd imagine everyone in this thread would want to do - if they believed there were a rape culture in the first place.

[Gravlen]

You say this here, and yet...


...here you continue to insist that it's a provocation. It is not, and continuing to describe clothing as a provocation is, as I said above, playing straight into the mentality of victim blaming. I do not accept the idea that clothing provokes a person into sexual assault, and I do not accept the idea that a person could have avoided sexual assault by dressing differently as there is still no empirical evidence linking a person's choice of attire to sexual assault.


Let me ask you this: Do you think the person dressed the most sexually intriguing is most likely to suffer sexual assault?


That depends on the circumstances and the context, what kind of interest they seek, from whom, and how they feel sexy. And on the flip side, what "provokes interest" among other people varies as well.


Seriously? You really believe that going by popular media is the best way to determine reasons why a person is victimized? That's... disappointing.


Why are you suddenly talking about Feminists^TM?


I can't see how this is relevant to what we were talking about.

1. About clothing: of course it can be. It can be one of several combined factors that make it possible. I'm speaking mostly about date rape here, not intimate partner rape, incest related rape and so on. Contrary to what some like to insist, rape is motivated by lust not by power fantasies; the latter only come into play in some cases where the person realizes "Hey, I can do what I like with this person".

So in this particular regard you think David Lisak, for example, is full of shit? Interesting.

Also, if clothes can be "provocative", then so can the way you look at someone, so you'd better not make eye contact.

What does it matter? I've made it very clear that what a person was wearing is not a factor in whether or not a perpetrator should be blamed for the actions they chose to take, so who cares? I'm talking about clothing merely as one of several factors that people might want to be cautious about in some circumstances.

The problem is that you're speaking with two tongues. You're saying "I don't intend to blame the victim" and then you go ahead and blame the victim.

I'd liken clothing to bacon, really. Bacon sizzling in a pan in a person's home is perfectly ahrmless as long as you don't burn yourself or something. If you bring bacon into some wilderness areas it may provoke a bear into attacking you. If the bear attacks you, what you did was foolish but it doesn't mean you should not get medical attention or that the bear should not be prevented from harming you or others. It's the same thing really.

Absolutely not. What you're saying is that the rapist can't help himself, just like an animal, which is a notion I reject. In doing so, you're alleviating the blame on the rapist. After all, like a bear, how could you expect him to refrain from attacking?

And still, it has not been shown that clothing is a risk factor in sexual assault. You keep insisting that it is, but show no proof of causation.

So women who dress provocatively can certainly do so--I think it's sometimes a selfish, ugly thing to do that promotes promiscuity but I wouldn't outlaw it. However if they were going to do it I'd advise them to keep their eyes open.

If you accept the feminist idea that rape has literally nothign to do with the victim--that they're chosen for esoteric reasons about power games--I can't do much about that.

As before, how is this a "feminist idea"?

2. About literature: feminists are constantly insisting that the arts contribute to rape culture, and that the arts influence how people feel about other people. So either this is a general principle and people can discuss it, or they can't and it's irrelevant when feminists bring it up as well. So I advise you to pick a position, either ignore feminists when they complain about objectification in the arts or accept that analysis from other points of view may be valid.

This is a false dichotomy. The question of risk factors when it comes to rape victims and the impact of culture on people's behaviour are two different ones.

We are talking about whether clothing is a risk factor, and you are insisting that turning to fiction will help make that determnination. That is irrational. We need to look at the facts and not fiction. I mean, if we're going to depend on fiction for things, we're ending up in the completely wrong places: We'll demand that hospitals try to revive a person who's flatlined using a defibrillator, or think that protecting yourself against hacking requires you to type quickly.

Since you like RAINN, I'll add this: Here's their tips for staying safe on campus. You'll note that nowhere in there does it mention not to dress a certain way. That should be a hint for you right there.

[New Edom]

I actually think there is merit in their work regarding some criminal subjects, but not all. I've been studying and reflecting on their work, and while I'm impressed at the same time I am skeptical about eleemnts of it. One is that psychology is a changing field. However all I'm saying about Turner is that this man, who as far as I can tell has not been diagnosed by anyone is being said by some who are angry with him to have the character of a rapist, as though ONLY such people could ever commit a rape. I'm just skeptical about that.

On the other hand, I actually wish that Lisak was taken more seriously when people are talking about this subject, as he's less inclined to focus on culture and more on the behaviour of habitual rapists, who RAINN argues commit most rapes.

Deliberate attempt at avoiding the question I see, so since you chose not to even try to answer we'll make another go at it:

Is that really a feminist idea?

I can mention that David Lisak, whom you've referenced before, also claim that convicted rapists are measurably more angry at women and more motivated by a desire to dominate and control them than non-rapists.

To quote from Understanding the Predatory Nature of Sexual Violence where he states that on page 6, he also has this to say on page 3:

Motivations and Taxonomies
One of the most important contributions made by the study of incarcerated sex offenders was the clarification of the role of sexuality in the perpetration of rape. Since rape involves sexual behavior, it was long believed to be primarily motivated by sexual impulse; deviant sexual impulse, but sexual impulse nonetheless. This confusion of context with motivation was clarified mainly by the work of Nicholas Groth, who published a typology of rapists in the 1970’s. Groth labeled each type based on the principle motivation manifested by the rapists in that group.

The two primary and numerically largest types identified by Groth were the “power” rapist and the “anger” rapist. The power rapist was motivated by his need to control and dominate his victim, and inversely, to avoid being controlled by her. The anger rapist was motivated by resentment and a general hostility towards women, and was more prone to inflicting gratuitous violence in the course of a rape. Not surprisingly, these types were rarely found in pure form. Most rapists were actually blends of power and anger motivations; however, a predominance of one or the other was often discernible.

The third and (thankfully) numerically far smaller type was the sadistic rapist. This rapist was motivated by the sexual gratification he experienced when he inflicted pain on his victim. The sadistic rapist has become a staple of the American media, but these, once again, extremely rare cases.

Groth’s identification of anger and power as the primary motivations behind rape has endured, and has become the basis for attempts at defining more refined taxonomies of rape. These efforts have largely yielded modest results, and have focused on identifying blends of power and anger motivations, and on distinguishing developmental antecedents for the various types. Not surprisingly, among those developmental antecedents, one of the most prominent is a history of childhood abuse. Sexual abuse, physical abuse and neglect are all significantly more prevalent in the backgrounds of rapists than in the backgrounds of non-offending men.

Was Nicholas Groth, Ph.D. a clinical psychologist, also a feminist? Possibly. Does this make it a feminist idea? If so, how?

So how is the idea that rape is about power and not about sex a "feminist idea"?

It's used as one. I don't care where it came from, it's used as a means of saying "male sexuality envisioned by patriarchy is a weapon against women." It's used to support this power dynamic.

If you one more time take me responding not according to your perfect desire as avoiding I will cease responding to you altogether. Just request clarification or something.

[New Edom]

You know, I think this discussion is useless actually. No matter what I say, people keep accusing me of blaming victims, people keep insisting that nothing I say maes any sense, so I'm starting to come to a point where I don't care anymore. I might as well be a mean spirited person if I cannot convince people of anything. I dont' thin I'm a stupid person but I keep being treated like one. None of my words mean anythign to this anyway. I might as well simply vote for people who are utterly reactionary and refuse to be concerned about this stuff ever again. I think I've wasted my time with all this.

[The Lone Alliance]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

I think the point of asking this question is that it's necessary to identify the problem is before you can solve it. Of course, deterring rape culture is something I'd imagine everyone in this thread would want to do - if they believed there were a rape culture in the first place.

I think the only reason it's become more popular is because there are more people in college these days, rape always happens, rape always will happen.

Crimes happen, people will do bad and illegal things simply because they can. The world is not a nice place.

[Gravlen]

Deliberate attempt at avoiding the question I see, so since you chose not to even try to answer we'll make another go at it:



So how is the idea that rape is about power and not about sex a "feminist idea"?

It's used as one. I don't care where it came from,

Can you clarify why you are describing it as a "feminist idea" if you don't care about its origins?

it's used as a means of saying "male sexuality envisioned by patriarchy is a weapon against women." It's used to support this power dynamic.

Can you clarify how that makes the researchers wrong? Can you clarify if you are disputing the findings presented above because you disagree with the conclusions some feminists are drawing from the findings? Just to clarify, that's an odd way to go about it, if that's the case.

If you one more time take me responding not according to your perfect desire as avoiding I will cease responding to you altogether. Just request clarification or something.

Clarification requested.

[Des-Bal]

You know, I think this discussion is useless actually. No matter what I say, people keep accusing me of blaming victims, people keep insisting that nothing I say maes any sense, so I'm starting to come to a point where I don't care anymore. I might as well be a mean spirited person if I cannot convince people of anything. I dont' thin I'm a stupid person but I keep being treated like one. None of my words mean anythign to this anyway. I might as well simply vote for people who are utterly reactionary and refuse to be concerned about this stuff ever again. I think I've wasted my time with all this.

You started a thread, made some terrible arguments, dodged questions that probed them, and then got angry that the people questioning you didn't give up and go away. This isn't you being bullied.

[Tananat]

You know, I think this discussion is useless actually. No matter what I say, people keep accusing me of blaming victims, people keep insisting that nothing I say maes any sense, so I'm starting to come to a point where I don't care anymore. I might as well be a mean spirited person if I cannot convince people of anything. I dont' thin I'm a stupid person but I keep being treated like one. None of my words mean anythign to this anyway. I might as well simply vote for people who are utterly reactionary and refuse to be concerned about this stuff ever again. I think I've wasted my time with all this.

Let's not pretend you had any intention in making this topic other than to victim blame and attempt to dispute rape culture and blame it all on the evil feminists who oppress you so much.

[Bloody Xmas]

It's used as one. I don't care where it came from, it's used as a means of saying "male sexuality envisioned by patriarchy is a weapon against women." It's used to support this power dynamic.

Male (heterosexual) sexuality isn't ALWAYS "a weapon against women".
Very often it's so. Not always.

[Settrah]

There is a rape culture, but it doesn't affect women. Rape culture is defined as a culture that trivialises and downplays non consensual sexual assault as if it was normalised. No part of that at all describes the rape that occurs on women in any civilised society, let alone the developed world. And it's laughable to believe it does. People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so. Because rape on women is a crime, and the authorities will persecute and arrest the male rapist. How the fuck is that a culture that trivialises and normalises rape (hashtag shut the fuck up teenage tumblr feminists)? Ok sure, there will be people (interpreted as misogynists) that are perhaps desensitised to that kind of sensitive issue, verging on sociopathic and unfeeling, sure, a goddamn minority statistic... not the majority, not a goddamn culture. You know who is most affected by a rape culture? Men. Women too I suppose, but mostly men. In prisons, every day. And it's treated as a joke. Think about that one. Not out on the streets, but within criminal institutions. And think about how many innocent people get wrongly incarcerated. You gals still wanna bitch?

The ratio for men being raped compared to women being raped is probably 3:1. Sexual assault on women is a problem, a huge problem, but not the biggest sexual assault problem, and it isn't a rape culture.

[Galloism]

There is a rape culture, but it doesn't affect women. Rape culture is defined as a culture that trivialises and downplays non consensual sexual assault as if it was normalised. No part of that at all describes the rape that occurs on women in any civilised society, let alone the developed world. And it's laughable to believe it does. People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so. Because rape on women is a crime, and the authorities will persecute and arrest the male rapist. How the fuck is that a culture that trivialises and normalises rape (hashtag shut the fuck up teenage tumblr feminists)? Ok sure, there will be people (interpreted as misogynists) that are perhaps desensitised to that kind of sensitive issue, verging on sociopathic and unfeeling, sure, a goddamn minority statistic... not the majority, not a goddamn culture. You know who is most affected by a rape culture? Men. Women too I suppose, but mostly men. In prisons, every day. And it's treated as a joke. Think about that one. Not out on the streets, but within criminal institutions. And think about how many innocent people get wrongly incarcerated. You gals still wanna bitch?

The ratio for men being raped compared to women being raped is probably 3:1. Sexual assault on women is a problem, a huge problem, but not the biggest sexual assault problem, and it isn't a rape culture.

I don't think you can say with a straight face that three times as many men are raped as women.

It's probably close to 1:1, give or take a small margin.

[PaNTuXIa]

We are asking the wrong question. It may be better to ask if there is a rape culture, how do we deter it? It is undeniable that rapes on college campuses have become more popular, but asking if a rape culture exist does not solve the problem. What does is educating college youth how to avoid, detect advances of, and report rape.

Come on, Nat. You're better than this.

[Settrah]

There is a rape culture, but it doesn't affect women. Rape culture is defined as a culture that trivialises and downplays non consensual sexual assault as if it was normalised. No part of that at all describes the rape that occurs on women in any civilised society, let alone the developed world. And it's laughable to believe it does. People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so. Because rape on women is a crime, and the authorities will persecute and arrest the male rapist. How the fuck is that a culture that trivialises and normalises rape (hashtag shut the fuck up teenage tumblr feminists)? Ok sure, there will be people (interpreted as misogynists) that are perhaps desensitised to that kind of sensitive issue, verging on sociopathic and unfeeling, sure, a goddamn minority statistic... not the majority, not a goddamn culture. You know who is most affected by a rape culture? Men. Women too I suppose, but mostly men. In prisons, every day. And it's treated as a joke. Think about that one. Not out on the streets, but within criminal institutions. And think about how many innocent people get wrongly incarcerated. You gals still wanna bitch?

The ratio for men being raped compared to women being raped is probably 3:1. Sexual assault on women is a problem, a huge problem, but not the biggest sexual assault problem, and it isn't a rape culture.

I don't think you can say with a straight face that three times as many men are raped as women.

It's probably close to 1:1, give or take a small margin.

I'm sure it was at one point. I'll be honest I haven't double checked the exact ratio in quite a while. I'm just going on what I knew before. But what we've got to understand is that while we can work out these ratios, we can only do it with information and reports that we have, which doesn't include several cases that go unreported and silenced. Men in prisons are likely the majority of those lost, silenced cases that we just brush over.

[Galloism]

I don't think you can say with a straight face that three times as many men are raped as women.

It's probably close to 1:1, give or take a small margin.

I'm sure it was at one point. I'll be honest I haven't double checked the exact ratio in quite a while. I'm just going on what I knew before. But what we've got to understand is that while we can work out these ratios, we can only do it with information and reports that we have, which doesn't include several cases that go unreported and silenced. Men in prisons are likely the majority of those lost, silenced cases.

Prison rape doesn't generally make it into the general population statistics, although prison rape in male prisons does generally tend to be higher than female prisons (and where the rapist is a guard, the majority of those rapists are female).

It may even be true that more men are raped than women on a yearly basis, but there's really no rational basis for a 3:1 ratio. We do know that the CDC reports, among the general population, that approximately 1,929,000 women were raped in the last 12 months, while approximately 1,921,000 men were made to penetrate (which would be rape by any sane definition). Those raped by the CDC's definition (penetrated by someone else) were too few in the last 12 months to accurately estimate, but that doesn't mean 'zero'.

Toss in the prison rape on both sides, and it's very plausible, even somewhat likely, that more men are raped than women among adults in the last 12 months, but there's no way you'd get to 3:1.

[Jello Biafra]

People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so.

Or alternatively, they admire the rapist.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so.

Or alternatively, they admire the rapist.

Or stand outside their houses with guns.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/armed-protesters-gather-outside-stanford-rapist-brock-turners-home-following-early-prison-release-20160904-gr8o0h.html

[Frenline Delpha]

Or alternatively, they admire the rapist.

Or stand outside their houses with guns.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/armed-protesters-gather-outside-stanford-rapist-brock-turners-home-following-early-prison-release-20160904-gr8o0h.html

But, people obviously love rape. You must be misrepresenting their purpose. Obviously, they wanted to give Brock Turner the guns so he could rape more people.

[Hirota]

People find out that a women has been raped, and they are disgusted and horrified, and rightly so.

Or alternatively, they admire the rapist.

You posted this before, without noticing this actually proven there is no rape culture, but rather at best a sub culture, and even then according to your own source as soon as one boy realised the victim was passed out, he immediately stopped. It appears you've made the same mistake, or have decided to willfully ignore your own evidence to push an agenda.

I should note, you asked me a question I didn't notice until now.

Because we live in a democracy where the majority opinion holds sway, 50.1%

This article about a survey is old, but in 1988 at least, the vast majority of 6th-9th graders approved of marital rape. Could we say that 6th-9th graders in 1988 had a rape culture?

I assume you refer to this:

Among married couples rape is permissible, said 87 percent of the boys and 79 percent of the girls

Without seeing a primary source and the methodology employed within the survey rather than a secondary source which may or may not have an agenda to deliberately or unintentionally distort the survey, I'm not prepared to speculate.

Nonetheless, Rape Culture is defined in several of the examples in the OP as a society-wide acceptance of rape. Neither of your examples demonstrate anything other than a subculture amongst young teens, which is troubling and a source of some concern, but not demonstrative of a wider problem. At best you could say that in the demographic of 1700 sixth to ninth graders in Rhode Island in 1988 there was a rape subculture, and you could say there is perhaps some evidence of that perpetuating. But the fact the state has successfully prosecuted the two attackers is evidence no widespread tolerance of rape exists in our society.

[Chestaan]

It's used as one. I don't care where it came from,

Can you clarify why you are describing it as a "feminist idea" if you don't care about its origins?

it's used as a means of saying "male sexuality envisioned by patriarchy is a weapon against women." It's used to support this power dynamic.

Can you clarify how that makes the researchers wrong? Can you clarify if you are disputing the findings presented above because you disagree with the conclusions some feminists are drawing from the findings? Just to clarify, that's an odd way to go about it, if that's the case.

If you one more time take me responding not according to your perfect desire as avoiding I will cease responding to you altogether. Just request clarification or something.

Clarification requested.

The idea that rape is solely about power and not sex is a highly disputed one. I posted research on this earlier in the thread, bare with me while I find it as I am on my phone.

Edit: This link for now but I have others:

http://quillette.com/2016/01/02/to-rape ... not-power/

[Impireacht]

You know, I think this discussion is useless actually. No matter what I say, people keep accusing me of blaming victims, people keep insisting that nothing I say maes any sense, so I'm starting to come to a point where I don't care anymore. I might as well be a mean spirited person if I cannot convince people of anything. I dont' thin I'm a stupid person but I keep being treated like one. None of my words mean anythign to this anyway. I might as well simply vote for people who are utterly reactionary and refuse to be concerned about this stuff ever again. I think I've wasted my time with all this.

Let's not pretend you had any intention in making this topic other than to victim blame and attempt to dispute rape culture and blame it all on the evil feminists who oppress you so much.

New Edom: I think it was a useful thread, and some of the demographics were pretty shocking, like the possibility of a 1:1 gender ratio in rape, which kind of disproves rape culture as we know it. The only reason you've been constantly put down and shamed is because that's the only way that the feminists can still cling to their side of the debate. The poll speaks for itself.

Tannat: No offense, but that could be interpreted as flaming. Also, shaming people is stopping low, and tends to be done once you've run out of reason and evidence to apply in a debate... think of a decent retaliation, or admit defeat.