Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[New Anwaria]

Unbelievable.

Literally all I'm saying is that there's a difference to me between whether he intended to rape her from the moment he met her at the goddamned party and whether he got it in his head when she actually passed out. That's literally all I'm saying. I don't see why this is hard for people to grasp. Some outraged persons are saying that he ALWAYS intended to rape her from the moment he saw her.

However I've noticed most people cannot tell the difference, so frankly I couldn't care less. If you want to think I love the guy, go ahead. I'm done talking about this.

In what way, shape or form does that even matter? Rape is rape. Wether you decide to rape someone an hour before you do it, or just encounter a passed out woman and decide you want to rape her just for the lolz is completely irrelevant.

Exactly

[The Lone Alliance]

There's no more a rape culture then there is a pickpocket, murder, robbery, breaking and entering, fraud, and any other form of criminal activity culture.

If anything we have a murder culture, look at how much society and fiction glorifies and talks about murder.
Now compare that to rape?

[New Edom]

I see. So you believe he is beyond redemption? Should he be executed to put in jail for life?

He should be imprisoned for 7-15 years.

And then what? What should his life be like after that?

[Conservatarian States]

You wanna see rape culture? Go to the middle east or Germany. You'll have a fun time there, SJW dummies

[Kernen]

He should be imprisoned for 7-15 years.

And then what? What should his life be like after that?

It should probably be like any other convicted felon's. Why? Should convicted felons be treated like anything but what they are in your book?

[New Edom]

And then what? What should his life be like after that?

It should probably be like any other convicted felon's. Why? Should convicted felons be treated like anything but what they are in your book?

According to people here he's not any convicted felon, he's done one of the worst crimes there is. and I'm suddenly curious: how would any of you feel if you knew someone you worked with or were involved with in some way had been conviected of sexual assault, but had done his time. Would you hire that person, encourage them to marry someone you were related to, give them a letter of reference?

[Kernen]

It should probably be like any other convicted felon's. Why? Should convicted felons be treated like anything but what they are in your book?

According to people here he's not any convicted felon, he's done one of the worst crimes there is. and I'm suddenly curious: how would any of you feel if you knew someone you worked with or were involved with in some way had been conviected of sexual assault, but had done his time. Would you hire that person, encourage them to marry someone you were related to, give them a letter of reference?

You asked how his life should have gone had he served time. What other people think now is irrelevant, as I answered based on the scenario.

No. The law may have to treat them as having served their time, but that doesn't mean I, as a private citizen, have to forgive them.

Rapists take advantage of their victims and violate them in the worst way possible. A conscious choice was made to do so, and I wouldn't be willing to forget that.

[New Edom]

According to people here he's not any convicted felon, he's done one of the worst crimes there is. and I'm suddenly curious: how would any of you feel if you knew someone you worked with or were involved with in some way had been conviected of sexual assault, but had done his time. Would you hire that person, encourage them to marry someone you were related to, give them a letter of reference?

You asked how his life should have gone had he served time. What other people think now is irrelevant, as I answered based on the scenario.

No. The law may have to treat them as having served their time, but that doesn't mean I, as a private citizen, have to forgive them.

Rapists take advantage of their victims and violate them in the worst way possible. A conscious choice was made to do so, and I wouldn't be willing to forget that.

And so would it be reasonable to say that on average such people ought not to be allowed to work with children or teens, work at crisis shelters or the like?

[Kernen]

You asked how his life should have gone had he served time. What other people think now is irrelevant, as I answered based on the scenario.

No. The law may have to treat them as having served their time, but that doesn't mean I, as a private citizen, have to forgive them.

Rapists take advantage of their victims and violate them in the worst way possible. A conscious choice was made to do so, and I wouldn't be willing to forget that.

And so would it be reasonable to say that on average such people ought not to be allowed to work with children or teens, work at crisis shelters or the like?

The law has provided for legal means of separate treatment for such a class of person. The convicted felon carries with him a history that makes employers wary of reoffence. That would be a fair assessment. The situations where this would not be true would be fairly limited. I cannot think of one such example.

[New Edom]

And so would it be reasonable to say that on average such people ought not to be allowed to work with children or teens, work at crisis shelters or the like?

The law has provided for legal means of separate treatment for such a class of person. The convicted felon carries with him a history that makes employers wary of reoffence. That would be a fair assessment. The situations where this would not be true would be fairly limited. I cannot think of one such example.

Then what difference does it make how long he spends in jail?

[Kernen]

The law has provided for legal means of separate treatment for such a class of person. The convicted felon carries with him a history that makes employers wary of reoffence. That would be a fair assessment. The situations where this would not be true would be fairly limited. I cannot think of one such example.

Then what difference does it make how long he spends in jail?

Because jail accomplishes more than simply branding an individual with a record. Were that the case, criminal trials would be the end of the criminal justice system. They punish individuals by limiting their freedoms for a predetermined amount of time, and separate them from society for society's safety and benefit.

[Kravanica]

The law has provided for legal means of separate treatment for such a class of person. The convicted felon carries with him a history that makes employers wary of reoffence. That would be a fair assessment. The situations where this would not be true would be fairly limited. I cannot think of one such example.

Then what difference does it make how long he spends in jail?

To cut him off from society so that he can harm no one else.

Is there a point to this long line of questioning? He's a rapist. His life will be difficult, and that's no one's doing but his own. He violated another human being in one of the worst says imaginable.

[Des-Bal]

So are you convinced that he's an inherently terrible person?

I cannot imagine a scenario where he isn't.

[New Edom]

Then what difference does it make how long he spends in jail?

Because jail accomplishes more than simply branding an individual with a record. Were that the case, criminal trials would be the end of the criminal justice system. They punish individuals by limiting their freedoms for a predetermined amount of time, and separate them from society for society's safety and benefit.

So let's be clear on this: they are punished but not forgiven? Then they continue to be punished, do they not?

[Kernen]

Because jail accomplishes more than simply branding an individual with a record. Were that the case, criminal trials would be the end of the criminal justice system. They punish individuals by limiting their freedoms for a predetermined amount of time, and separate them from society for society's safety and benefit.

So let's be clear on this: they are punished but not forgiven? Then they continue to be punished, do they not?

No, they are punished and proactive steps are taken to protect the vulnerable from being placed in a vulnerable position with the convicted. In much the same way that child molesters are kept from working with children, or bank fraud steed are prevented from working in finance. The goal is not punishment by the government, but risk mitigation.

I, however, am not the government. I am not required to accept a felon's reintegration into the fabric of community that surrounds me. I am entitled to hold whatever prejudices I so desire, I just can't protract them through the law.

[New Edom]

Then what difference does it make how long he spends in jail?

To cut him off from society so that he can harm no one else.

Is there a point to this long line of questioning? He's a rapist. His life will be difficult, and that's no one's doing but his own. He violated another human being in one of the worst says imaginable.

No he didn't. He fingered a drunk passed out woman in an alley. That's a contemnptible act, but it's hardly one of the worst ways imaginable. I'll give you a list:

- People who have been abducted and gang raped for days
- People who have been raped, violently assaulted and left for dead
- People who have been tortured
- People who were held as hostages in deprived conditions in terror of their livs for weeks, months or even years
- Children and teens who were under authorities who violated them repeatedly and made it seem normal

I could go on but you get the idea. This non-consenting drunken fumble in the alley doesn't even qualify. She's moving on with her life, doing okay, apparently, has had millions of people outpouring sympathy for her. She didn't even remember what happened until pepole told her.

Yes it was a crime. It's also not the end of the world. As people have pointed out repeatedly, they'd never trust someone liek that. He will bear the R for rapist for the rest of his life. And if as some say he IS a rapist--sexual violator, whatever you call him, jail won't reform him, and the time in jail won't be long enough that he's going to come out too aged and weak to do anything. So more jail time solves nothing. Or you can hope that a person can actually learn their lesson.

And hey, if some of you believe someone who violates someone else (sorry a woman, since we're talking rape culture theory here) is beyond redemption, just advocate for the death penalty for the crime in every case, no plea bargaining, no nothing. Just the needle, noose, chair, bullet, whatever.

[Kernen]

To cut him off from society so that he can harm no one else.

Is there a point to this long line of questioning? He's a rapist. His life will be difficult, and that's no one's doing but his own. He violated another human being in one of the worst says imaginable.

No he didn't. He fingered a drunk passed out woman in an alley. That's a contemnptible act, but it's hardly one of the worst ways imaginable. I'll give you a list:

- People who have been abducted and gang raped for days
- People who have been raped, violently assaulted and left for dead
- People who have been tortured
- People who were held as hostages in deprived conditions in terror of their livs for weeks, months or even years
- Children and teens who were under authorities who violated them repeatedly and made it seem normal

I could go on but you get the idea. This non-consenting drunken fumble in the alley doesn't even qualify. She's moving on with her life, doing okay, apparently, has had millions of people outpouring sympathy for her. She didn't even remember what happened until pepole told her.

Yes it was a crime. It's also not the end of the world. As people have pointed out repeatedly, they'd never trust someone liek that. He will bear the R for rapist for the rest of his life. And if as some say he IS a rapist--sexual violator, whatever you call him, jail won't reform him, and the time in jail won't be long enough that he's going to come out too aged and weak to do anything. So more jail time solves nothing. Or you can hope that a person can actually learn their lesson.

And hey, if some of you believe someone who violates someone else (sorry a woman, since we're talking rape culture theory here) is beyond redemption, just advocate for the death penalty for the crime in every case, no plea bargaining, no nothing. Just the needle, noose, chair, bullet, whatever.

All of your examples are demonstrably bodily violations. You've just added different moods of aggravating circumstances or compounded them. That doesn't change the nature of the violation itself. The crime you describe is functionally similar, and can be treated the same way.

The death penalty for sexual violence increases the likelihood of the victim being murdered to prevent the discovery of the violator. Plea bargaining is a function of judicial economy, and serves a role as a societal benefit that often outweighs the cost to justice. And not all of us support the death penalty, even for rape.

None of that was effective arguing.

[New Edom]

No he didn't. He fingered a drunk passed out woman in an alley. That's a contemnptible act, but it's hardly one of the worst ways imaginable. I'll give you a list:

- People who have been abducted and gang raped for days
- People who have been raped, violently assaulted and left for dead
- People who have been tortured
- People who were held as hostages in deprived conditions in terror of their livs for weeks, months or even years
- Children and teens who were under authorities who violated them repeatedly and made it seem normal

I could go on but you get the idea. This non-consenting drunken fumble in the alley doesn't even qualify. She's moving on with her life, doing okay, apparently, has had millions of people outpouring sympathy for her. She didn't even remember what happened until pepole told her.

Yes it was a crime. It's also not the end of the world. As people have pointed out repeatedly, they'd never trust someone liek that. He will bear the R for rapist for the rest of his life. And if as some say he IS a rapist--sexual violator, whatever you call him, jail won't reform him, and the time in jail won't be long enough that he's going to come out too aged and weak to do anything. So more jail time solves nothing. Or you can hope that a person can actually learn their lesson.

And hey, if some of you believe someone who violates someone else (sorry a woman, since we're talking rape culture theory here) is beyond redemption, just advocate for the death penalty for the crime in every case, no plea bargaining, no nothing. Just the needle, noose, chair, bullet, whatever.

All of your examples are demonstrably bodily violations. You've just added different moods of aggravating circumstances or compounded them. That doesn't change the nature of the violation itself. The crime you describe is functionally similar, and can be treated the same way.

The death penalty for sexual violence increases the likelihood of the victim being murdered to prevent the discovery of the violator. Plea bargaining is a function of judicial economy, and serves a role as a societal benefit that often outweighs the cost to justice. And not all of us support the death penalty, even for rape.

None of that was effective arguing.

I don't know how much you have suffered in life, or known suffering, but it really is about the degrees. It really does make a difference.

As a Christian I believe in forgiveness and reconciliation, and believe that any person can commit an act of sin, including terrible ones. I know people who have forgiven people who killed those they cared for. Some pepole cannot bring themselves to do this. Forgiveness doesn't mean acceptance of the harm done or the actions chosen it means refusing to take revenge on them, refusing to give them back what they gave you when there is no need to defend yourself from them any longer. So I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Kernen]

I don't know how much you have suffered in life, or known suffering, but it really is about the degrees. It really does make a difference.

Indeed. And sexual violation is an extreme degree of violation.

As a Christian I believe in forgiveness and reconciliation, and believe that any person can commit an act of sin, including terrible ones.

Good for you. Why should we?

I know people who have forgiven people who killed those they cared for. Some pepole cannot bring themselves to do this.

I certainly could not. I find forgiveness of that caliber to be weakness. A compensation for moral weakness and chronic inaction.

Forgiveness doesn't mean acceptance of the harm done or the actions chosen it means refusing to take revenge on them, refusing to give them back what they gave you when there is no need to defend yourself from them any longer. So I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am not defending myself by refusing to forgive or forget. I am defending the vulnerable by being unwilling to let a proven predator walk among the undefended without so much as a warning cry.

Most of all, however, I am refusing to accept that justice is done by administering a lenient sentence. Actions contrary to the social norms of society so severe as to violate another's implicit right to bodily sovereignty deserve punitive action. The laws of our society have laid out how much punitive action is generally necessary. This rapist is not serving that time. That is unquestionably an injustice to society.

[New Edom]

I don't know how much you have suffered in life, or known suffering, but it really is about the degrees. It really does make a difference.

Indeed. And sexual violation is an extreme degree of violation.

As a Christian I believe in forgiveness and reconciliation, and believe that any person can commit an act of sin, including terrible ones.

Good for you. Why should we?

I know people who have forgiven people who killed those they cared for. Some pepole cannot bring themselves to do this.

I certainly could not. I find forgiveness of that caliber to be weakness. A compensation for moral weakness and chronic inaction.

Forgiveness doesn't mean acceptance of the harm done or the actions chosen it means refusing to take revenge on them, refusing to give them back what they gave you when there is no need to defend yourself from them any longer. So I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree on this one.

I am not defending myself by refusing to forgive or forget. I am defending the vulnerable by being unwilling to let a proven predator walk among the undefended without so much as a warning cry.

Most of all, however, I am refusing to accept that justice is done by administering a lenient sentence. Actions contrary to the social norms of society so severe as to violate another's implicit right to bodily sovereignty deserve punitive action. The laws of our society have laid out how much punitive action is generally necessary. This rapist is not serving that time. That is unquestionably an injustice to society.

Maybe she wouldn't have been so vulnerable if she had not gotten so drunk.

[Kernen]

Indeed. And sexual violation is an extreme degree of violation.



Good for you. Why should we?


I certainly could not. I find forgiveness of that caliber to be weakness. A compensation for moral weakness and chronic inaction.



I am not defending myself by refusing to forgive or forget. I am defending the vulnerable by being unwilling to let a proven predator walk among the undefended without so much as a warning cry.

Most of all, however, I am refusing to accept that justice is done by administering a lenient sentence. Actions contrary to the social norms of society so severe as to violate another's implicit right to bodily sovereignty deserve punitive action. The laws of our society have laid out how much punitive action is generally necessary. This rapist is not serving that time. That is unquestionably an injustice to society.

Maybe she wouldn't have been so vulnerable if she had not gotten so drunk.

Maybe murder victims wouldn't have been so vulnerable if they carried a gun. Maybe children shouldn't be so vulnerable to physical abuse by adults. Maybe the workers in the World Trade Center should have made themselves less vulnerable to incoming airplanes.

It is not the victim's fault for being targeted by a human predator. The victim should have a right to be drunk and remain unmolested, just like any person should have the right to be unable to protect themselves and remain unmugged.

[Galloism]

Maybe she wouldn't have been so vulnerable if she had not gotten so drunk.

New Edom, shame on you. I can't believe you went there.

I can't believe you just said that.

This may sound flippant, but I'm actually quite serious. Go to your room and think about what you've done.

[Des-Bal]

Maybe she wouldn't have been so vulnerable if she had not gotten so drunk.

While encouraging people not to make themselves vulnerable is a good policy we should not reward offenders for limiting their predatory behavior to people who can't defend themselves.

[Des-Bal]

Maybe murder victims wouldn't have been so vulnerable if they carried a gun. Maybe children shouldn't be so vulnerable to physical abuse by adults. Maybe the workers in the World Trade Center should have made themselves less vulnerable to incoming airplanes.

It is not the victim's fault for being targeted by a human predator. The victim should have a right to be drunk and remain unmolested, just like any person should have the right to be unable to protect themselves and remain unmugged.

While it is utterly fucking abominable to assign blame to a victim you aren't making good comparisons. The victim in the Brock Turner case did something very foolish, she voluntarily drank to the point of total intoxication and comparing that to a person not carrying a gun, being a child, or not being prepared for a terrorist attack is fundamentally dishonest.
A person should be able to stand in dark alley with their headphones on counting out their life savings and be totally unharmed, they should be able to do that. The problem is that doing that absolutely will make them a target for the worst kind of people. We need to acknowledge that yes what a person does can make them vulnerable but the fact that people prey on vulnerable people makes their actions more despicable not less.

[Kernen]

Maybe she wouldn't have been so vulnerable if she had not gotten so drunk.

New Edom, shame on you. I can't believe you went there.

I can't believe you just said that.

This may sound flippant, but I'm actually quite serious. Go to your room and think about what you've done.

Are you really so shocked? It was an inevitable conclusion based on the arguments made by New Edom. The only shocking act is that it was admitted so readily.