Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Tananat]

You're either being intentionally blind to the point of Slutwalks, or you really are ignorant of their point, which seems odd for someone who posts often and at length on feminist issues. Perhaps you should read more widely than just A Voice for Men?

The point of Slutwalks is to combat the victim blaming that goes on in the media, the public and in certain talks whereby a victim of rape, usually a women but I can see parallels whenever someone talks about how men can't be raped or how an erection equals consent, is somehow responsible for the vile crime committed against them because of the way they are dressed.

What do Slutwalk protesters want done exactly? Do they want rapists, harassers and abusers to get more jail time? Or do they want a different kind of sentencing? How would they like police to examine evidence when someone brings an accusation against someone for sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape? Is there a standard idea about this? How would they like women's sexuality or nudity to be depicted publicly?

When Free the Nipple advocates are protesting, are they suggesting that people should embrace a clothing optional lifestyle? Are they suggesting that women should not sexualize their own breasts as some women do? Should young women not do sexting because it objectifies themselves? Do the protestors believe that there is a lack of women being allowed to express themselves physically in places where there is little to no male shirtlesnes? Do they want swimming pools and beaches to be topless?

And do both groups want pornography banned? And if so, what does that mean? What is classified, according to them, as pornography? Just whatever their country's censorship board has declared to be pornography?

All questions easily answered by a google search. I am not your researcher, do it yourself.

[New Edom]

What do Slutwalk protesters want done exactly? Do they want rapists, harassers and abusers to get more jail time? Or do they want a different kind of sentencing? How would they like police to examine evidence when someone brings an accusation against someone for sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape? Is there a standard idea about this? How would they like women's sexuality or nudity to be depicted publicly?

When Free the Nipple advocates are protesting, are they suggesting that people should embrace a clothing optional lifestyle? Are they suggesting that women should not sexualize their own breasts as some women do? Should young women not do sexting because it objectifies themselves? Do the protestors believe that there is a lack of women being allowed to express themselves physically in places where there is little to no male shirtlesnes? Do they want swimming pools and beaches to be topless?

And do both groups want pornography banned? And if so, what does that mean? What is classified, according to them, as pornography? Just whatever their country's censorship board has declared to be pornography?

All questions easily answered by a google search. I am not your researcher, do it yourself.

Well I didn't bring it up, and I have already studied it and have an opinion which I shared about it, so I'm afraid you have not convinced me and doubtless will not convince others. How about it folks? Shall Slutwalk and Free the Nipple be my next subject for a thread? After all if their own advocates will not share information on their goals, someone ought to.

[Jochizyd Republic]

In the Indian Subcontinent, yes. In America, no.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

What do Slutwalk protesters want done exactly? Do they want rapists, harassers and abusers to get more jail time? Or do they want a different kind of sentencing? How would they like police to examine evidence when someone brings an accusation against someone for sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape? Is there a standard idea about this? How would they like women's sexuality or nudity to be depicted publicly?

When Free the Nipple advocates are protesting, are they suggesting that people should embrace a clothing optional lifestyle? Are they suggesting that women should not sexualize their own breasts as some women do? Should young women not do sexting because it objectifies themselves? Do the protestors believe that there is a lack of women being allowed to express themselves physically in places where there is little to no male shirtlesnes? Do they want swimming pools and beaches to be topless?

And do both groups want pornography banned? And if so, what does that mean? What is classified, according to them, as pornography? Just whatever their country's censorship board has declared to be pornography?

All questions easily answered by a google search. I am not your researcher, do it yourself.

The claimant needs to prove it.

[Marcurix]

In the Indian Subcontinent, yes. In America, no.

*cough*

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-l ... e5bc752ac1

[Tananat]

All questions easily answered by a google search. I am not your researcher, do it yourself.

The claimant needs to prove it.

Which would apply, had I made a claim. Which I didn't.

I could recommend a good reading comprehension course if you need it.

[New Edom]

The claimant needs to prove it.

Which would apply, had I made a claim. Which I didn't.

I could recommend a good reading comprehension course if you need it.

As I said, then I'm not taking your remarks seriously. I'm going to assume you don't know what you're talking about.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The claimant needs to prove it.

Which would apply, had I made a claim. Which I didn't.

I could recommend a good reading comprehension course if you need it.

Maybe some writing lessons would help you.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The claimant needs to prove it.

Which would apply, had I made a claim. Which I didn't.

I could recommend a good reading comprehension course if you need it.

Nonetheless I would rather not debating something so trivial.

[Tananat]

Which would apply, had I made a claim. Which I didn't.

I could recommend a good reading comprehension course if you need it.

As I said, then I'm not taking your remarks seriously. I'm going to assume you don't know what you're talking about.

That is amusing. I've already said what Slutwalks are. That you either ignored it or missed it is your own issue.

Instead of demanding me play 50 questions to elaborate on concepts that you should know about if you want to even begin to address the subject of rape culture in the west, perhaps you should actually go and try to learn about these things. That is, if you have the time to take out from drafting your next 'all feminists r ebul' blog post.

[New Edom]

As I said, then I'm not taking your remarks seriously. I'm going to assume you don't know what you're talking about.

That is amusing. I've already said what Slutwalks are. That you either ignored it or missed it is your own issue.

Instead of demanding me play 50 questions to elaborate on concepts that you should know about if you want to even begin to address the subject of rape culture in the west, perhaps you should actually go and try to learn about these things. That is, if you have the time to take out from drafting your next 'all feminists r ebul' blog post.

Look at my link from my previous page. It shows clearly that it is not just anti-feminists who are dubious about the value of Slutwalks. And I'd add Free the Nipple to that.

There was a movie made about that a few years ago, and one of the things you can't help but notice is that you never see any shirtless men, nor do you see any harmful instances of pornography. It would have been like seeing a civil rights movie where you never see any actual hardships but hear them vaguely referred to. Nor did the film make it clear HOW going topless helped exactly.

[The Great state of Atlantis]

Rape culture..... mmmmm.... I thought that was a term coined by Anita "Let's make a video!" Scamkeesian, Zoe "Videogame" Crywolf and Chanty "Shut the fuck up!" Bigred. Nope, it exists in the more benighted parts of the world but in the enlightened parts... nah.

[Atomwaffen]

No.

[Community Values]

What is rape culture?

I was under the impression that it was acceptance of rape. Is it more subtle?

[Hirota]

What is rape culture?

I was under the impression that it was acceptance of rape. Is it more subtle?

The OP has multiple examples of the definition of rape culture. Wikipedias definitions is as good a starting point as any of the others.

[New Edom]

Rape culture..... mmmmm.... I thought that was a term coined by Anita "Let's make a video!" Scamkeesian, Zoe "Videogame" Crywolf and Chanty "Shut the fuck up!" Bigred. Nope, it exists in the more benighted parts of the world but in the enlightened parts... nah.

Rape culture came into focus because of radical feminists. I find it fascinating that modern mainstream '3rd Wave Intersectional' feminists fail often to recognize their own radical origins and assume that radicals are more extreme than they are--it has become normalized.

One of my serious issues with the term is the people who wrote books and made films about it. Mary Daly, Susan Brownmiller, Margaret Lazarus and others. This movement has had as its central notion the idea that men are basically hostile towards women. What's interesting is that in spite of this position it captured so much imagination and became canon for the modern era. Now people hardly question these ideas at all, yet they are not based on scholarly research that was seriously peer reviewed by people outside of the movement. It has simply become 'true'.

So in the present century, the majority of feminists as far as I can tell accept their ideas, and many who support women's rights do as well. This is a revolutionary thing; it is the equivalent to the Nicene Creed for feminism. However the genius of the 3rd Wave is that they have put it in the terms that are popular for the 21st Century: it's softened, sentimental and reduced to a series of sound bytes. So an old fashioned 2nd Wave radfem like say Chessmistress around here sounds jarring to them--she is blatantly adversarial towards masculinity and and old fashioned enemy of patriarchy. They have created a pretence that fighting rape culture doesn't really involve anything adversarial and combative.

Well, that's not true. Activists opposed to rape culture are generally opposed to due process, democracy and freedom of expression, but the modern ones are really good at making it seem like they're just concerned for a good cause. Their main targets are people who know next to nothing about feminism but want to be good to women and LGBTQ whatever people.

[Des-Bal]

What I'm trying to say is that some seem to be saying that from the moment he tried to hook up with her he intended to rape her. I argue that he probably didn't and just wanted sex no matter what.

Then you're arguing he was innocent of the crime he was charged with. Intent to rape requires intent to rape. Actual rape only requires that the defendant intended to act.

[New Edom]

What I'm trying to say is that some seem to be saying that from the moment he tried to hook up with her he intended to rape her. I argue that he probably didn't and just wanted sex no matter what.

Then you're arguing he was innocent of the crime he was charged with. Intent to rape requires intent to rape. Actual rape only requires that the defendant intended to act.

No, I'm not. I mean "from the moment he met her". You can intend to rape someone in Canada at least if for instance they pass out during sex because they're drunk and are no longer responsive but you continue anyway. I'm talking about the difference between assuming that while he was in the building with her and saw her dancing he thought "aha, a rape victim" or if he decided to keep having sexual actions with an unconscious woman while they were in the alley.

[Des-Bal]

No, I'm not. I mean "from the moment he met her". You can intend to rape someone in Canada at least if for instance they pass out during sex because they're drunk and are no longer responsive but you continue anyway. I'm talking about the difference between assuming that while he was in the building with her and saw her dancing he thought "aha, a rape victim" or if he decided to keep having sexual actions with an unconscious woman while they were in the alley.

I don't understand why that's a significanct difference, it's the difference between deciding to rape her at one point or a point seconds or perhaps minutes later.

[New Edom]

No, I'm not. I mean "from the moment he met her". You can intend to rape someone in Canada at least if for instance they pass out during sex because they're drunk and are no longer responsive but you continue anyway. I'm talking about the difference between assuming that while he was in the building with her and saw her dancing he thought "aha, a rape victim" or if he decided to keep having sexual actions with an unconscious woman while they were in the alley.

I don't understand why that's a significanct difference, it's the difference between deciding to rape her at one point or a point seconds or perhaps minutes later.

Because there's a difference between planning to murder someone and doing it in a fit of rage. The same thing in my opinion applies to how you morally judge someone when it comes to rape. Some people in their moral outrage see him as a monster when I simply see him as careless and entitled in a way that made him a criminal in those few minutes. I'm not talking about legal distinctions.

[Des-Bal]

Because there's a difference between planning to murder someone and doing it in a fit of rage. The same thing in my opinion applies to how you morally judge someone when it comes to rape. Some people in their moral outrage see him as a monster when I simply see him as careless and entitled in a way that made him a criminal in those few minutes. I'm not talking about legal distinctions.

That's an awful comparison. He saw this woman was in a vulnerable position and he tried to rape her, whether he decided that when she was drunk to the point of intoxication or after she lost consciousness he made the exact same decision for the exact same reason.

[New Edom]

Because there's a difference between planning to murder someone and doing it in a fit of rage. The same thing in my opinion applies to how you morally judge someone when it comes to rape. Some people in their moral outrage see him as a monster when I simply see him as careless and entitled in a way that made him a criminal in those few minutes. I'm not talking about legal distinctions.

That's an awful comparison. He saw this woman was in a vulnerable position and he tried to rape her, whether he decided that when she was drunk to the point of intoxication or after she lost consciousness he made the exact same decision for the exact same reason.

I don't think it's an awful comparison. A crime of passion is a crime of passion. I would argue that she suffered less than say someone who was crippled for life in a drunk driving collision or who lost a loved one to murder that took place in a fit of rage or as part of a violent assault. This does not mean that she did not suffer, but those things are worse and harder to recover from. Yet we can accept that they might have been caused by passion and selfish foolishness than out of an actual cold blooded desire to commit the crime.

[Alsheb]

That's an awful comparison. He saw this woman was in a vulnerable position and he tried to rape her, whether he decided that when she was drunk to the point of intoxication or after she lost consciousness he made the exact same decision for the exact same reason.

I don't think it's an awful comparison. A crime of passion is a crime of passion. I would argue that she suffered less than say someone who was crippled for life in a drunk driving collision or who lost a loved one to murder that took place in a fit of rage or as part of a violent assault. This does not mean that she did not suffer, but those things are worse and harder to recover from. Yet we can accept that they might have been caused by passion and selfish foolishness than out of an actual cold blooded desire to commit the crime.

You can't rape anyone out of foolishness, mate. Rape is by definition an act that is carried out consciously and deliberately.

[New Edom]

I don't think it's an awful comparison. A crime of passion is a crime of passion. I would argue that she suffered less than say someone who was crippled for life in a drunk driving collision or who lost a loved one to murder that took place in a fit of rage or as part of a violent assault. This does not mean that she did not suffer, but those things are worse and harder to recover from. Yet we can accept that they might have been caused by passion and selfish foolishness than out of an actual cold blooded desire to commit the crime.

You can't rape anyone out of foolishness, mate. Rape is by definition an act that is carried out consciously and deliberately.

Unbelievable.

Literally all I'm saying is that there's a difference to me between whether he intended to rape her from the moment he met her at the goddamned party and whether he got it in his head when she actually passed out. That's literally all I'm saying. I don't see why this is hard for people to grasp. Some outraged persons are saying that he ALWAYS intended to rape her from the moment he saw her.

However I've noticed most people cannot tell the difference, so frankly I couldn't care less. If you want to think I love the guy, go ahead. I'm done talking about this.

[Kelinfort]

Rape is a general intent crime, in a general intent crime you can't use voluntary intoxication as a defense. If you chose to become intoxicated that choice carries over to your actions while intoxicated. Specific intent crimes require that you wanted to cause a specific result, if you can't form that thought your culpability is lessened, if he had been charged with rape it wouldn't matter that he was drunk.

What I'm trying to say is that some seem to be saying that from the moment he tried to hook up with her he intended to rape her. I argue that he probably didn't and just wanted sex no matter what.

I argue that he probably didn't and just wanted sex no matter what.

Yeah, that end part contradicts the part above it.