Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Jez Corbyn]

I oppose all kinds of rape and have stood up against it my entire life. To prevent rape, a Labour government will move to segregate trains by sex so that women can be safe vile, disgusting and lecherous men.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I oppose all kinds of rape and have stood up against it my entire life. To prevent rape, a Labour government will move to segregate trains by sex so that women can be safe vile, disgusting and lecherous men.

The best parody accounts on this site know when to not chime in, at least not in character. Learn from their example.

[Yootxtlalkaan]

Not in Western Culture that's for fucking sure. Anyone who believes that the West is a rape culture has never spent more than an hour out in public. They are the same people who will believe that black people are still oppressed in the US and that the wage gap is real.

those are all blatantly true, so… yeah? i guess?

re: death penalty for rape - i oppose the death penalty in all cases, but rape should probably be punished more severely than murder

[Individual Thought Patterns]

Not in Western Culture that's for fucking sure. Anyone who believes that the West is a rape culture has never spent more than an hour out in public. They are the same people who will believe that black people are still oppressed in the US and that the wage gap is real.

those are all blatantly true, so… yeah? i guess?

re: death penalty for rape - i oppose the death penalty in all cases, but rape should probably be punished more severely than murder

There is no wage gap.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't actually know what you mean by this.

Rape isn't subjective. The death penalty isn't subjective. Whether or not it's rational isn't subjective.

Do you just mean that it's subjective whether or not we agree on the 'extreme'-ness of the penalty?

The method of punishment is subjective - people have different ideas for what should be done.

Then their reasoning might be subjective. The method of punishment is absolutely objective.

[Grave_n_idle]

As in you worry that that might be what I'm advocating, or that IS what I'm advocating and it worries you?

Because I can set your mind at rest on at least one of those.

I do advocate a death penalty for rape.

Barbaric, simply barbaric.

On the contrary, allowing monsters to predate on our children because we are too squeamish to properly deal with it - that's barbaric.

[Grave_n_idle]

As in you worry that that might be what I'm advocating, or that IS what I'm advocating and it worries you?

Because I can set your mind at rest on at least one of those.

I do advocate a death penalty for rape.

Do you also advocate the death penalty for murder, kidnapping and treason?

Not as a blanket rule, but I certainly do believe that it's a necessary evil and it can certainly be argued for any of the more extreme crimes.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Barbaric, simply barbaric.

On the contrary, allowing monsters to predate on our children because we are too squeamish to properly deal with it - that's barbaric.

Would it not be misfortunete for the perpetrator to face social agony forever until his or her death, committing this act plants a black mark upon the perpetrator causing his or her hardships to only increase from the normal hardships that a average person would have, basically causing a social suicide.
I'd also like to mention that rape is too fickle of a crime to prove, after all proof that the person convicted and jailed for "raping someone" didn't do it comes out everyday, therefore the idea of having a death sentence for such a crime is a mistake that I hope society will not make.

[Pirelin]

Not in Western Culture that's for fucking sure. Anyone who believes that the West is a rape culture has never spent more than an hour out in public. They are the same people who will believe that black people are still oppressed in the US and that the wage gap is real.

Agreed. They are also the Cultural Marxists who support the destruction of white culture.

[Chestaan]

Barbaric, simply barbaric.

On the contrary, allowing monsters to predate on our children because we are too squeamish to properly deal with it - that's barbaric.

Allowing people like you to advocate the death of others is barbaric. Even though I vehemently oppose the death penalty in all cases I can see the reasoning behind supporting it for murder charges, you take from the criminal what they took from the victim. But for things like rape, assault, armed robbery etc. that doesn't apply.

And a prison term also prevents "monsters" from committing crimes.

[Farnhamia]

I oppose all kinds of rape and have stood up against it my entire life. To prevent rape, a Labour government will move to segregate trains by sex so that women can be safe vile, disgusting and lecherous men.

Parody accounts, like satire, are difficult to pull off. Your posts are bordering on spam now. Give it a rest.

[Liriena]

The 19th century called. It wants its bad anthropology back.

West is best.

1. Eh, that's debatable. Sure, our civilization came up with the ideas of secular humanism, liberal democracy, socialism, etc., and gave us the industrial revolution, along with a ton of scientific and technological developments. But on the other hand, those developments include the industries that have polluted our world to the point of threatening all life on it, and the creation of weapons of mass destruction. Also, the West was the first to industrialize war and genocide, with all that entailed.
2. Even if the West is "best", the fact remains that the West is not "more evolved", which would imply that the West is naturally superior to all other civilizations, and that all civilizations can be measured in a linear fashion, with the West being the finish line. That line of thought was at the core of 19th century anthropology, and it was as stupid back then as it is today.

[New Edom]

Barbaric, simply barbaric.

On the contrary, allowing monsters to predate on our children because we are too squeamish to properly deal with it - that's barbaric.

Then I hope you are equally concerned with the lack of data and analysis about female abusers of children, women, men and the elderly. Do you advocate for further research into this?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

West is best.

1. Eh, that's debatable. Sure, our civilization came up with the ideas of secular humanism, liberal democracy, socialism, etc., and gave us the industrial revolution, along with a ton of scientific and technological developments. But on the other hand, those developments include the industries that have polluted our world to the point of threatening all life on it, and the creation of weapons of mass destruction. Also, the West was the first to industrialize war and genocide, with all that entailed.
2. Even if the West is "best", the fact remains that the West is not "more evolved", which would imply that the West is naturally superior to all other civilizations, and that all civilizations can be measured in a linear fashion, with the West being the finish line. That line of thought was at the core of 19th century anthropology, and it was as stupid back then as it is today.

We can only get better it seems, or we fail and collapse.

[New Edom]

1. Eh, that's debatable. Sure, our civilization came up with the ideas of secular humanism, liberal democracy, socialism, etc., and gave us the industrial revolution, along with a ton of scientific and technological developments. But on the other hand, those developments include the industries that have polluted our world to the point of threatening all life on it, and the creation of weapons of mass destruction. Also, the West was the first to industrialize war and genocide, with all that entailed.
2. Even if the West is "best", the fact remains that the West is not "more evolved", which would imply that the West is naturally superior to all other civilizations, and that all civilizations can be measured in a linear fashion, with the West being the finish line. That line of thought was at the core of 19th century anthropology, and it was as stupid back then as it is today.

We can only get better it seems, or we fail and collapse.

I don't agree with that analysis. The march of civilizations is a hard one to judge in hindsight, but what we do know is that it generally works. Every great civilization that existed has existed for one reason alone: because the control over violence and resources worked reasonably weol. At some point they all overreached themselves. Then they had to adapt and lose a lot of their power or they simply died out altogether.

So we have, interestingly, remnants of several once great empires in our world today that preserved enough of their histories to learn from their lessons. Britain, Turkey, China, Spain, Portugal, Japan, India among them.

The legacy of Anglosphere civilization I would argue is lagely commerce and civil service. The notion of merit in service through economics and government has generally worked rather well, for all its flaws. This makes it possible to replicate work being done and has been sought after for imitation. A couple of critical flaws though are corruption of capitalism--reducing fair competition with monopolies and financial empire buidling that reduces rather than encourages personal initiative--and even more than this the dangerous flaw most empires have been subject to--the idea that the values and virtues established are inherent to the people who live where they were established and not simply systems that developed and can be used by anyone. This is a very natural thing to think and believe, but it's dangerous for that very reason. So I think that the West has done very well, as civilizations go, but is struggling now to figure out where to go next. Who would have thought in the fifteenth century that the West would be where it is now? A lot of divided little kingdoms, principalities and duchies all quarreling one another, devasted by plagues and endless wars, in a world where the great civilizations of the era dominated existing trade routes and controlled vast fleets and armies? Yes, the West has achieved extraordinary things, but we must be humble before the accidents and fogs of history.

Having said all that, after brief replies could we please get back on topic?

[Grave_n_idle]

On the contrary, allowing monsters to predate on our children because we are too squeamish to properly deal with it - that's barbaric.

Then I hope you are equally concerned with the lack of data and analysis about female abusers of children, women, men and the elderly. Do you advocate for further research into this?

Why do you keep saying stuff like this? Have you literally not read any of my posts, are you really forgetful, or are you deliberately pretending it hasn't already been repeatedly and consistently addressed?

[Grave_n_idle]

Allowing people like you to advocate the death of others is barbaric.

I find that position laughable.

If rape or murder is 'barbaric', then 'barbaric' has a certain connotation that free speech shouldn't have.

Even though I vehemently oppose the death penalty in all cases I can see the reasoning behind supporting it for murder charges, you take from the criminal what they took from the victim. But for things like rape, assault, armed robbery etc. that doesn't apply.

That's a primitive 'reasoning' for a death penalty, and not one I would endorse. I don't argue for a death penalty for anything as petty as vengeance, and never have.

And a prison term also prevents "monsters" from committing crimes.

Until the 'monster' gets out, By whatever means.

There's only one absolute, 100% preventative against recidivism.

[Grave_n_idle]

Would it not be misfortunete for the perpetrator to face social agony forever until his or her death, committing this act plants a black mark upon the perpetrator causing his or her hardships to only increase from the normal hardships that a average person would have, basically causing a social suicide.

That sounds horrific. Why would I want to create such cruelty?

I'd also like to mention that rape is too fickle of a crime to prove, after all proof that the person convicted and jailed for "raping someone" didn't do it comes out everyday, therefore the idea of having a death sentence for such a crime is a mistake that I hope society will not make.

I'm not advocating for a death penalty for every case.

[New Edom]

Then I hope you are equally concerned with the lack of data and analysis about female abusers of children, women, men and the elderly. Do you advocate for further research into this?

Why do you keep saying stuff like this? Have you literally not read any of my posts, are you really forgetful, or are you deliberately pretending it hasn't already been repeatedly and consistently addressed?

It is a simple yes or no question. And I keep saying things like this because I think it needs to be said for the record as overwhelmingly feminnist writers, posters, commentators are focused on bad men and victimized women. Even people who think they are trying to be fair focus a lot on numbers.

[Nazeroth]

I find it odd how feminists will erect anti-christian tents and have their little rallies but rarley make that big of a deal about Islamic treatment of women throughout the middle east and africa

We have it made in the west, spoiled and ignorant of how bad it is in other places.

[New Edom]

I find it odd how feminists will erect anti-christian tents and have their little rallies but rarley make that big of a deal about Islamic treatment of women throughout the middle east and africa

We have it made in the west, spoiled and ignorant of how bad it is in other places.

A good example of this is the Free the Nipple or Slutwalk movements. They apparently combat rape culture but it is not really clear how, and there is no real clear or thoughtful conversation surrounding them, though there is a lot of outpouring of feeling.

[Tananat]

I find it odd how feminists will erect anti-christian tents and have their little rallies but rarley make that big of a deal about Islamic treatment of women throughout the middle east and africa

We have it made in the west, spoiled and ignorant of how bad it is in other places.

A good example of this is the Free the Nipple or Slutwalk movements. They apparently combat rape culture but it is not really clear how, and there is no real clear or thoughtful conversation surrounding them, though there is a lot of outpouring of feeling.

You're either being intentionally blind to the point of Slutwalks, or you really are ignorant of their point, which seems odd for someone who posts often and at length on feminist issues. Perhaps you should read more widely than just A Voice for Men?

The point of Slutwalks is to combat the victim blaming that goes on in the media, the public and in certain talks whereby a victim of rape, usually a women but I can see parallels whenever someone talks about how men can't be raped or how an erection equals consent, is somehow responsible for the vile crime committed against them because of the way they are dressed.

[New Edom]

A good example of this is the Free the Nipple or Slutwalk movements. They apparently combat rape culture but it is not really clear how, and there is no real clear or thoughtful conversation surrounding them, though there is a lot of outpouring of feeling.

You're either being intentionally blind to the point of Slutwalks, or you really are ignorant of their point, which seems odd for someone who posts often and at length on feminist issues. Perhaps you should read more widely than just A Voice for Men?

The point of Slutwalks is to combat the victim blaming that goes on in the media, the public and in certain talks whereby a victim of rape, usually a women but I can see parallels whenever someone talks about how men can't be raped or how an erection equals consent, is somehow responsible for the vile crime committed against them because of the way they are dressed.

What do Slutwalk protesters want done exactly? Do they want rapists, harassers and abusers to get more jail time? Or do they want a different kind of sentencing? How would they like police to examine evidence when someone brings an accusation against someone for sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape? Is there a standard idea about this? How would they like women's sexuality or nudity to be depicted publicly?

When Free the Nipple advocates are protesting, are they suggesting that people should embrace a clothing optional lifestyle? Are they suggesting that women should not sexualize their own breasts as some women do? Should young women not do sexting because it objectifies themselves? Do the protestors believe that there is a lack of women being allowed to express themselves physically in places where there is little to no male shirtlesnes? Do they want swimming pools and beaches to be topless?

And do both groups want pornography banned? And if so, what does that mean? What is classified, according to them, as pornography? Just whatever their country's censorship board has declared to be pornography?

[New Edom]

Something to add: I'm not the only one who is dubious about Slutwalks who has good questions about it, there are others who are actually feminists who also have some concerns. Look here

[Betoni]

The topic seems relevant so I'll just go ahead. How would you people go ahead and change porn? I'll admit, I'm a avid consumer and I really have kind of began to loathe the whole industry, just as I'm a smoker and trying to quit and hating the industry. Honestly I see porn as more of a problem. I know great movies can arouse almost as a great feeling as a real life event when done right, and I know that porn has never done that for me. I just quite don't understand why there are no such sexually stimulating pieces of movies out there as there are of horror, drama and comedy. Well.. I do understand that once you are finished you prolly want to delete your browser history and all. So not the best marketing opportunity. Still, I think that if actual people who were interested in making a sexual movie with even a slightest notion of making a movie were interested they could kind of revolutionize the porn world. There is a huge market there and kids watching porn these days at ever younger age, they could make a real difference.