Right Wing Discussion Thread the Third

[The Empire of Pretantia]

As we all know, VOID is a cold and calculating puppetmaster who doesn't let personal belief influence his personal belief.

I am having trouble deciphering your meaning; do you mean to say personal belief is both emotional and logical, and that I block my emotional beliefs in favor of logical ones?

I'm saying you're not actually eliminating emotion from the equation.

In fact it's not even really about emotion. Right-wingers don't harbor any particular emotions, and they believe their own ideologies are logical just like you do.

Take, for example, Diopolis. As a Catholicand a heretic he believes God exists, so that plays into his thought process on what's logical.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I am having trouble deciphering your meaning; do you mean to say personal belief is both emotional and logical, and that I block my emotional beliefs in favor of logical ones?

I'm saying you're not actually eliminating emotion from the equation.

In fact it's not even really about emotion. Right-wingers don't harbor any particular emotions, and they believe their own ideologies are logical just like you do.

Odd, though, because people like Dio invoke God all the fucking time, and God is the epitome of illogic.

[Diopolis]

You're not a vulcan, and that doesn't necessarily make you any more logical anyways.

Both true statements, I suppose. Doesn't mean I won't try to avoid emotion as much as possible and keep to my logical decision making I've been doing thus far.

I went through that phase too. Trust me, you'll grow out of it.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I'm saying you're not actually eliminating emotion from the equation.

In fact it's not even really about emotion. Right-wingers don't harbor any particular emotions, and they believe their own ideologies are logical just like you do.

Odd, though, because people like Dio invoke God all the fucking time, and God is the epitome of illogic.

We're not talking about illogic here though, we're talking about emotion.

[Conscentia]

I wasn't referring to emotional reasoning. I was referring to the fact that by in large human beings make judgements unconsciously by integrating information into an internalized worldview before logical reasoning has a chance to occur. The reasoning we present to ourselves afterwards is usually just rationalization.
That's not to say logical reasoning is impossible, or that we shouldn't try, but claiming to be an exclusively logical decision maker is either very uneducated or very arrogant.

What I am saying is I do not require emotion in my decision making. In fact, I tend to avoid emotional decisions. Emotion is chaotic. Messy. I don't like that; I like things to be orderly, nice, and neat. Thus, I eliminated emotion from the equation.

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

[Diopolis]

What I am saying is I do not require emotion in my decision making. In fact, I tend to avoid emotional decisions. Emotion is chaotic. Messy. I don't like that; I like things to be orderly, nice, and neat. Thus, I eliminated emotion from the equation.

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

There have been experiments involving removing the part of the brain that influences emotions.
The subjects did not turn out well.

[Conserative Morality]

Or so you claim.
Most people who claim to be supremely rational are just edgy.

They are enlightened by their own intelligence. In this moment, they are euphoric.

[Zottistan]

What I am saying is I do not require emotion in my decision making. In fact, I tend to avoid emotional decisions. Emotion is chaotic. Messy. I don't like that; I like things to be orderly, nice, and neat. Thus, I eliminated emotion from the equation.

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

Well reason and logic are generally understood to mean slightly different things. "Reasonable" tends to mean something a little more human than formal or mathematical logic.

Which is why the statement "you shouldn't rape children", while alogical, is fairly fucking reasonable.

[Zottistan]

Or so you claim.
Most people who claim to be supremely rational are just edgy.

They are enlightened by their own intelligence. In this moment, they are euphoric.

I just tipped my fedora so hard it fell off.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

They are enlightened by their own intelligence. In this moment, they are euphoric.

I just tipped my fedora so hard it fell off.

Fixed.

[The V O I D]

What I am saying is I do not require emotion in my decision making. In fact, I tend to avoid emotional decisions. Emotion is chaotic. Messy. I don't like that; I like things to be orderly, nice, and neat. Thus, I eliminated emotion from the equation.

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

The way I look at it, I see all the options, their various logical outcomes, and the logic of each option as well as the result. How I decide depends on my calculations. I usually calculate which choice will be of the greatest benefit to myself as well as others, or in some cases, only to myself. Then, I make the choice that fits the bill - and knowing the most likely outcomes of the decision means I know, if it somehow does go wrong, to expect it and respond accordingly.

I think about five steps ahead all the time.

tl;dr my brain goes if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then over and over for each choice and such, and then calculates which holds the greatest benefit to myself and others and/or only to myself.

[Benuty]

Logic and reason in a psychotically irrational species?

That is a good one.

Even Mr. J has logic if you look close. Trust me, its amazing.

Sure, but the Jokers logic is a swirling vortex.

[Zottistan]

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

There have been experiments involving removing the part of the brain that influences emotions.
The subjects did not turn out well.

There have been really interesting experiments done with patients who had their brain hemispheres separated as part of epilepsy treatment, where they would show information to the left eye, so only the right brain would receive it (the right brain generally not managing language or our internal narrative), and then the left hand (right brain) would respond in some way. The experimenters then asked the patient why they did that, and their left brain, correcting their internal narrative, made up some bullshit excuse for them.

The patient (in their left brain) thought they'd been planning it all along.

So yeah, you might think you're a near perfectly logical being, but you're deluding yourself.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Even Mr. J has logic if you look close. Trust me, its amazing.

Sure, but the Jokers logic is a swirling vortex.

MY PUDDIN'S LOGIC IS THE BEST LOGIC! YOUR THE PROBLEM, NOT HIM!

[Conscentia]

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

Well reason and logic are generally understood to mean slightly different things. "Reasonable" tends to mean something a little more human than formal or mathematical logic.

Which is why the statement "you shouldn't rape children", while alogical, is fairly fucking reasonable.

I thought it was clear I was using it in a stricter sense - as a synonym of "logical", as opposed as a synonym of "sensible". The online thesauruses confirm my use isn't so unusual.

[Zottistan]

Well reason and logic are generally understood to mean slightly different things. "Reasonable" tends to mean something a little more human than formal or mathematical logic.

Which is why the statement "you shouldn't rape children", while alogical, is fairly fucking reasonable.

I thought it was clear I was using it in a stricter sense - as a synonym of "logical", as opposed as a synonym of "sensible". The online thesauruses confirm my use isn't so unusual.

I guess so.

[Conscentia]

Rubbish. Reason is value-neutral - it cannot be used to make decisions, only to describe the options. Values are determined emotionally, not by reason.

The way I look at it, I see all the options, their various logical outcomes, and the logic of each option as well as the result. How I decide depends on my calculations. I usually calculate which choice will be of the greatest benefit to myself as well as others, or in some cases, only to myself. Then, I make the choice that fits the bill - and knowing the most likely outcomes of the decision means I know, if it somehow does go wrong, to expect it and respond accordingly.

I think about five steps ahead all the time.

tl;dr my brain goes if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then over and over for each choice and such, and then calculates which holds the greatest benefit to myself and others and/or only to myself.

[The V O I D]

The way I look at it, I see all the options, their various logical outcomes, and the logic of each option as well as the result. How I decide depends on my calculations. I usually calculate which choice will be of the greatest benefit to myself as well as others, or in some cases, only to myself. Then, I make the choice that fits the bill - and knowing the most likely outcomes of the decision means I know, if it somehow does go wrong, to expect it and respond accordingly.

I think about five steps ahead all the time.

tl;dr my brain goes if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then, if>then over and over for each choice and such, and then calculates which holds the greatest benefit to myself and others and/or only to myself.

I can't make you believe me. But that is how I work. So far, it has worked as I expected it to work.

[Yorkers]

My political views summed up in Hollywood fashion:

America is for the Americans.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

My political views summed up in Hollywood fashion:

(Image)
(Image)

America is for the Americans.

[Eisarn-Ara]

My political views summed up in Hollywood fashion:

(Image)
(Image)

America is for the Americans.

Those are "Conquered Indians", get it right.

[Conscentia]

(Image)

I can't make you believe me. But that is how I work. So far, it has worked as I expected it to work.

Even if it is how you work, you're still using emotional bias to preference one of the options above all others so you're still mistaken in saying "I do not require emotion in my decision making".

[The V O I D]

I can't make you believe me. But that is how I work. So far, it has worked as I expected it to work.

Even if it is how you work, you're still using emotional bias to preference one of the options above all others so you're still mistaken in saying "I do not require emotion in my decision making".

Not using emotional bias. I am looking at the options and calculating which one benefits me the most and has the most positive outcome for me. If there is an emotional bias, I suppose you could say 'greed' or 'selfishness'.

[Zottistan]

Even if it is how you work, you're still using emotional bias to preference one of the options above all others so you're still mistaken in saying "I do not require emotion in my decision making".

Not using emotional bias. I am looking at the options and calculating which one benefits me the most and has the most positive outcome for me. If there is an emotional bias, I suppose you could say 'greed' or 'selfishness'.

Action requires desire and desire is by definition an emotional bias.

[The V O I D]

Not using emotional bias. I am looking at the options and calculating which one benefits me the most and has the most positive outcome for me. If there is an emotional bias, I suppose you could say 'greed' or 'selfishness'.

Action requires desire and desire is by definition an emotional bias.

Not really; I don't necessarily desire the outcomes of my decisions. For example, I was presented once with several choices, each of which had a fairly negative outcomes, and the option I desired was one of the more negative ones. I had to ignore that desire to achieve the option which was of the greater benefit to me, because the other option had too negative of an outcome to be acceptable.