NationStates

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:37 am**

Nacesa Plana wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Is that an appeal to authority wrapped up in an appeal to popularity?

Edit: Also, by banning this "tool to repress women" you are, in a roundabout way, repressing women.

No. But the men behind the burqa may feel repressed. What a pity. They always can leave France and head for USA. A country with no racial, cultural, social and religious problems at all. Oh wait a minute...

Question: If the burkini was banned completely, and then Muslim women substituted it for the Speedo burkini, would you advocate banning the Speedo burkini also?

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:50 am**

Haritopia wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:So Germany's planning on banning the Burka too?

Yes, thankfully. The burqa has no place outside of arabia.

And here in Europe women wear only what we allow them.

Right?

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:31 pm**

Haritopia wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:So Germany's planning on banning the Burka too?

Yes, thankfully. The burqa has no place outside of arabia.

So practicing Al-Islam has no place outside of Arabia, even though most of the world's Muslims live outside Arabia, others not even in the Ummah?

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:33 pm**

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Haritopia wrote:
Yes, thankfully. The burqa has no place outside of arabia.

So practicing Al-Islam has no place outside of Arabia, even though most of the world's Muslims live outside Arabia, others not even in the Ummah?

They never said that. *Nod*

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm**

New haven america wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:So practicing Al-Islam has no place outside of Arabia, even though most of the world's Muslims live outside Arabia, others not even in the Ummah?

They never said that. *Nod*

Niqab is still a part of Al-Islam.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
Haritopia wrote:
Yes, thankfully. The burqa has no place outside of arabia.

And here in Europe women wear only what we allow them.

Right?

Yep, truly impeccable European logic. *Nod*

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:30 pm**

The NRA Republic wrote:67% do not support the ban on burkini, probably muslims or americans who never saw muslims in real life !

"Moderate" islam is a lie

Organisation of Islamic Cooperation :
57 member states ( 1.6bn inhabitants)
The organisation states that it is "the collective voice of the muslim world and works to "safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony"

It's President is Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (who is also the dictator of Turkey), a few quotes from him :

-The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers...

-There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it

-They cry press freedom, but (the raids) have nothing to do with it, we have no concern about what the EU might say, whether the EU accepts us as members or not, we have no such concern. Please keep your wisdom to yourself.

The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation also states that sharia law is the only law that must enforced in muslims lands ( sharia law promote death penalty for non muslims, raped women, homosexuals, people convited of witchcraft ....)

So any sane non muslim person that went to France this year knows that islam as it is today is a THREAT to all the 5.8 bn non muslims in the world.
Seriously they target everyone, a Chinese man was beaten to death by muslims in a vicious racist attack in France a few weeks ago but it seems like 67% of peoples here thinks that islam is a religion of peace !
Fuck off burkini and sharia law !

Well there are moderate muslims who are like,"hey let's all just live and leave each other and not kill apostates or westerners or whatever because they believe killing people is generally wrong." Then there are radical muslims who are like"well, screw the west death to America, hurray for terrorists etc but aren't necessarily willing to actually do the dirty work themselves." Then you have islamic terrorists "who are like death to the infidel, *click*, ...*kaboom*". I'm oversimplifying of course.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:28 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
Haritopia wrote:
Yes, thankfully. The burqa has no place outside of arabia.

And here in Europe women wear only what we allow them.

Right?

In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
New haven america wrote:They never said that. *Nod*

Niqab is still a part of Al-Islam.

Then maybe it should stop being part of Al-Islam, unless you're living in a place where you have to worry about sandstorms there's no reason to wear it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:41 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And here in Europe women wear only what we allow them.

Right?

In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:44 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

Indeed I don't pretend that I agree with what is done in Islamic countries, but then I also see no reason to pretend that I agree with what places in France are doing. Telling a woman what she can or cannot wear, regardless of how much you allow her, is still sexist.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:44 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

How are women in the west oppressed? In feel like that's what your trying to imply.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:44 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

We don't allow people to run around naked either and that's clearly oppression too.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:49 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Ifreann wrote:We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

We don't allow people to run around naked either and that's clearly oppression too.

That would be due to public health concerns.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:50 pm**

Felrik wrote:
Ifreann wrote:We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites, therefore it's not really oppression!

How are women in the west oppressed? In feel like that's what your trying to imply.

I was referencing the topic of the thread.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:55 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:We don't allow people to run around naked either and that's clearly oppression too.

That would be due to public health concerns.

Not especially depending on weather conditions, it's still more about appearances than it is health.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:56 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:That would be due to public health concerns.
Not especially depending on weather conditions, it's still more about appearances than it is health.

And that means it's okay to ban this one specific article of clothing. Other countries are worse and it's not like people can run around naked.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:00 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
Felrik wrote:
How are women in the west oppressed? In feel like that's what your trying to imply.

I was referencing the topic of the thread.

But you did imply that they are oppressed in the original post.

"We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites"

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:00 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:That would be due to public health concerns.
Not especially depending on weather conditions, it's still more about appearances than it is health.

Umm, yes. I mean I personally think the only required piece of clothing should be underwear of some sort to help prevent the spread of diseases. But then, we do see men walking around in boxers without tops. It seems that once again women are discriminated against because they are not allowed to walk around in boxers without tops.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:02 pm**

Felrik wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I was referencing the topic of the thread.

But you did imply that they are oppressed in the original post.

"We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites"

That would be the reference to the topic of the thread.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:05 pm**

Ifreann wrote:
Felrik wrote:
But you did imply that they are oppressed in the original post.

"We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites"

That would be the reference to the topic of the thread.

My Apologies.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:10 pm**

Felrik wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I was referencing the topic of the thread.

But you did imply that they are oppressed in the original post.

"We don't oppress women as much as Islamismistites"

Laws are oppression in general, but the line is where you find the oppression to be reasonable or not.

Ifreann just believes that it's unreasonable oppression to oppress Muslims by denying them the right to oppress themselves.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:14 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:Ifreann just believes that it's unreasonable oppression to oppress Muslims by denying them the right to oppress themselves.

...

It is literally impossible to oppress yourself.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:23 pm**

Wallenburg wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:Ifreann just believes that it's unreasonable oppression to oppress Muslims by denying them the right to oppress themselves.

...

It is literally impossible to oppress yourself.

Self Flagellation ring a bell?
Not to mention that some people consider the Burka to be a symbol of oppression, so if you willingly wear it then under that view you're oppressing yourself.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:39 pm**

Nacesa Plana wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:Answer my question then I answer yours

An enormous list of Muslim women testified they had no choice. To give you some names: Chahdortt Djavann, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Samira Bellil, Fadéla Amara, ...

Worldwide most Muslim women are forced to wear a goody-goody veil. In some countries by law, in other countries it's a man who's deciding they have to wear it. And if they do not, the women are beaten or locked up at home.

Sometimes they have a choice, but when they opt not for the veil, they are excluded from the family or local community. What a choice.

And if the above is not applicable, how much choice do you have when they ~~learn~~ indoctrinate you the veil is a better option. You're a so called better Muslima, you're showing more respect for the almighty, you are not naked, etc…

I've a Muslim friend, she has 2 children, aged 9 and 11 years. She's wearing a veil, her children only when they go the Muslim school in the weekend.

She said her oldest child may choose next year if she want to wear the veil permanently or not. But does the child have a real choice? Not, not all. That child is currently learning in the Muslim school that being unveiled is close to disgust.

I suppose to your credit I never asked for a good answer. A list hardly proves that all women are forced to wear them it doesn't even prove a sizable minority it just proves those women listed are forced. If they are somehow forced in France then you are attacking the symptoms not the cause by banning free women from freely choosing to wear what they want. You should instead support domestic violence shelters. To your last point, children don't have a choice period. Doesn't matter be they Muslim, atheist, or freaking praying to sonic the hedgehog; children have the majority of their lives determined by their legal guardians this is just the facts of the world. Does it suck for them? Sure but that's the way it is.

Now my answer: Yes in an 'enlightened' and 'free' nation women can wear what ever clothing they want no matter how tacky, promiscuous, or conservative the clothing is. Because free will and the freedom to choose are supposed to be held in high regard regardless of how many Frenchmen get triggered by it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:19 pm**

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And here in Europe women wear only what we allow them.

Right?

In Europe you're allowed to wear almost anything but a few outfits...
Under Islamism women are only allowed to wear one outfit.
Clearly it's the same!

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Niqab is still a part of Al-Islam.

Then maybe it should stop being part of Al-Islam, unless you're living in a place where you have to worry about sandstorms there's no reason to wear it.

Al-Islam doesn't go off the whims of Humans. If it did, we would be in a world of hurt.

NationStates

To burkini or not burkini, that’s the question.