To burkini or not burkini, that’s the question.

[The Alexanderians]

I'm aware of your poor efforts at reflection of my accusation. I have indeed said how it is sexism. You are choosing for the women because you do not believe them to be able to make the choice for themselves, that muslim women are forced to wear them, that the idea they might have chosen to do so is unthinkable.

That women might "chose" to wear it won't make it any less a symbol of woman's oppression than that jews might chose to wear nazi uniforms will make them any less symbol of jew's oppression.
Pointing that out isn't sexism. It's refusing to acknowledge the symbolic behind them and continue to do as if "they're just normal clothes" that is.
Also, your point might have some weight if I argued for banning this clothing on the ground that it was sexist. I'm however for banning it because it's a symbol of religious extremism and cultural backwardness which makes your whole argument be as empty as the vagues ad hominem you throw.
Keep calling me a racist, sexist or islamophobe all you want tho. You're just showing how meaningless those words have become in your mouth.

So there for you legislate that they must wear something else ironically doing what you supposedly think you are saving them from sexist enforcement of clothing standards. It's xenophobic because you target Muslims almost exclusively (discrimination and civil rights violations of Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses not withstanding). This particular case of xenophobia brought on because the bans are motivated by what the French perceive to be foreign and tied to the immigrants. Like Ifrean has pointed out the French don't seem to be going after the nuns now are they?

Once more, let me get this straight. Banning symbol of religious extremism is sexist because Muslims are the ones who're the most religious extremists?
Wow. You aren't so much proving how "xenophobe" France supposedly is than proving our own point, so thanks I suppose.
As for the nuns, veils aren't banned so there is no problem with their outfit.

You toss around extremism without knowing what that means. Subscribing to what your religion prescribes as proper wear is not extremism, Extremism is determined by the individual and you haven't shown how and Islamic clothing is extremist or sexist except by mouthing off on topics you display little actual knowledge about. You made some false equivalence that makes Godwin revolve in his grave and expect your logic to track. You have some weird sense of cultural imperialism and unfounded superiority over other's peoples culture which is in fact xenophobia. To top it off you've given no support for any of your claims. I expect you to provide some and I'll take some pleasure in telling you why it's wrong.

[Neutraligon]

That women might "chose" to wear it won't make it any less a symbol of woman's oppression than that jews might chose to wear nazi uniforms will make them any less symbol of jew's oppression.
Pointing that out isn't sexism. It's refusing to acknowledge the symbolic behind them and continue to do as if "they're just normal clothes" that is.
Also, your point might have some weight if I argued for banning this clothing on the ground that it was sexist. I'm however for banning it because it's a symbol of religious extremism and cultural backwardness which makes your whole argument be as empty as the vagues ad hominem you throw.
Keep calling me a racist, sexist or islamophobe all you want tho. You're just showing how meaningless those words have become in your mouth.

Once more, let me get this straight. Banning symbol of religious extremism is sexist because Muslims are the ones who're the most religious extremists?
Wow. You aren't so much proving how "xenophobe" France supposedly is than proving our own point, so thanks I suppose.
As for the nuns, veils aren't banned so there is no problem with their outfit.

You toss around extremism without knowing what that means. Subscribing to what your religion prescribes as proper wear is not extremism, Extremism is determined by the individual and you haven't shown how and Islamic clothing is extremist or sexist except by mouthing off on topics you display little actual knowledge about. You made some false equivalence that makes Godwin revolve in his grave and expect your logic to track. You have some weird sense of cultural imperialism and unfounded superiority over other's peoples culture which is in fact xenophobia. To top it off you've given no support for any of your claims. I expect you to provide some and I'll take some pleasure in telling you why it's wrong.

The part about putting down anglo-saxon logic war particularly interesting with respect that the xenophobia.

[Gravlen]

No you have twice claimed it, you have twice not shown that it is solely a symbol of it. You claiming something doe snot mean you have shown it to actually be true
Sure, we can look to other culture for that. Jews where for a very long to separated both in law and by practice, and so maintained their own unique subgroups within larger cultures. This happened in France, in America, in Russia, hell it happened in practically every Western country.Banning the burkini will have the same affect. And no I was not the one to set the condition, you were, by claiming that the burini is only a symbol of the oppression of women. To show that you must then show that no woman can choose to wear the burkini. This by the way is why I have said you have not shown it at all, let alone twice. I on the meantime do not actually need to show that women have chosen to do it, only that by limiting their choice, you are in fact acting no different from the Muslim countries you are supposedly fighting. And no we are not taking the choice away at all, you by banning it are blatantly taking the choice away because they are by law not allowed to wear it. At least if the law does not blatantly make it illegal to wear the illusion of choice, and possibly actual choice exists.

I've twice explained my reasonment, I won't do you the injure of repeating it once more. Just go back to my previous posts if you've still didn't understood it yet.
You're the one to have set this condition. I only need to prove that the Burkini is a symbol of oppression of women to show that it is a symbol of oppression of women. The rest is superfluous objectives I've no need to fulfill.
Moreover, yes we're taking away the illusion of the choice. That's better than allowing said illusion to continue to exist and thus give to more Islamists a free pass to continue to bully women into submission.

Explain to me what, exactly, makes these symbols of oppression?

[The Alexanderians]

No woman should have to look like Kenny!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I've twice explained my reasonment, I won't do you the injure of repeating it once more. Just go back to my previous posts if you've still didn't understood it yet.
You're the one to have set this condition. I only need to prove that the Burkini is a symbol of oppression of women to show that it is a symbol of oppression of women. The rest is superfluous objectives I've no need to fulfill.
Moreover, yes we're taking away the illusion of the choice. That's better than allowing said illusion to continue to exist and thus give to more Islamists a free pass to continue to bully women into submission.

Explain to me what, exactly, makes these symbols of oppression?

Because we're practicing Al-Islam and not running around naked.

[Jumalariik]

I DINT KNO THAT CHRISTINITY WAZ ROM THE MIDLEE EEST OMG OMG OMG OMG !!!!!!ONE!!!!!!!one!!!!!1!!!!!!!!u!!!!!!1
Y WE EAT SHELLFILSH


It's not as though France has been Christian for over 1 thousand years or something... or as though France was peacefully and willingly converted and eventually became a center of the Christian world.... no..... clearly Islam has equal claim to being an integral part of French culture.... clearly.... yes... Christmas has no precedence in France. Ramadan is equally common in France................. yes.......

Im sorry you have trouble understanding what the word native means but I cant help you with that. Perhaps english courses?

I know that, I just don't know if it has a possible bearing on anything on the planet.

[Nacesa Plana]

Hyper secular? No. We merely know that religion is as private as one's sex life and view shoving it in people's face as rather disgusting.
And, thankfully, the World don't care about what you wish and neither do I.

So apparently going out to the beach in clothing that they feel comfortable wearing is shoving it in people's faces. Who knew? I guess that means nuns should never be allowed in public, after all that is shoving their religion in people's faces.

Nuns have a choice not to wear their uniform. And they often do.

[Nacesa Plana]

I've twice explained my reasonment, I won't do you the injure of repeating it once more. Just go back to my previous posts if you've still didn't understood it yet.
You're the one to have set this condition. I only need to prove that the Burkini is a symbol of oppression of women to show that it is a symbol of oppression of women. The rest is superfluous objectives I've no need to fulfill.
Moreover, yes we're taking away the illusion of the choice. That's better than allowing said illusion to continue to exist and thus give to more Islamists a free pass to continue to bully women into submission.

Explain to me what, exactly, makes these symbols of oppression?

It's like comparing scouts uniforms...



...with these ones...



...and later act like it are the same uniforms.

[Kubumba Tribe]

So apparently going out to the beach in clothing that they feel comfortable wearing is shoving it in people's faces. Who knew? I guess that means nuns should never be allowed in public, after all that is shoving their religion in people's faces.

Nuns have a choice not to wear their uniform. And they often do.

So nuns have the choice to wear their uniform in the church or in public? If in the church, does the Bible say that's ok?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Explain to me what, exactly, makes these symbols of oppression?

It's like comparing scouts uniforms...



...with these ones...



...and later act like are the same uniforms.

How.

[Nacesa Plana]

Like staying muslim at all? Maybe their husband insists that she not work and she wants to work. Maybe her husband insist she wear a burkini and she does not want to. There are a lot of possibilities.

She might not want to wear the burkini,but she still has to dress modestly. But if she left Al-Islam, then nevermind.

So, she has not the option to dress "immodestly"?



A woman that's forced by her husband culture to wear the burkini, can she wear the above in public?

[Nacesa Plana]

Nuns have a choice not to wear their uniform. And they often do.

So nuns have the choice to wear their uniform in the church or in public? If in the church, does the Bible say that's ok?

I don't think the Bible is talking about nuns. They didn't exist yet. However, according the Bible all women should wear a veil.
And most don’t. The culture evolved. Few Christians, except maybe the fundies, consider unveiled women as immodestly.

Nuns aren't associated with violent extremism. Doesn't mean a nun can't be violent.
The burqa or burkini is associated with violent extremism. Doesn't mean that all women wearing a burqa or burkini are violent.

Context. Association. It's of no use to compare a nun with the burkini.

[Nacesa Plana]

The burkini is more than a tool to suppress women, it's more than a fundie symbol.

They did some time ago an experiment.

A group of people were locked in a house. The first days everyone was talking and making fun with each other.
Later they divided the group. Half had to wear a blue shirt, the others a red shirt.
Almost instantly the members of the red and blue group didn’t interact with each other anymore, while they did with the members of their own ‘tribe’.
A bit later both groups by themselves installed cultural laws. It was by instance forbidden for a blue person to talk with a red equivalent. Few did and were considered as traitors.

Completely irrational, but so are humans.

A burkini is achieving the same. It creates a space between you and me, it’s dividing the society.

[Wallenburg]

The burkini is more than a tool to suppress women, it's more than a fundie symbol.

They did some time ago an experiment.

A group of people were locked in a house. The first days everyone was talking and making fun with each other.
Later they divided the group. Half had to wear a blue shirt, the others a red shirt.
Almost instantly the members of the red and blue group didn’t interact with each other anymore, while they did with the members of their own ‘tribe’.
A bit later both groups by themselves installed cultural laws. It was by instance forbidden for a blue person to talk with a red equivalent. Few did and were considered as traitors.

Completely irrational, but so are humans.

A burkini is achieving the same. It creates a space between you and me, it’s dividing the society.

You know what? You're absolutely right. To solve such divisiveness, I have a solution: every man, woman, and child shall be prohibited from wearing anything but plain gray cotton clothing. These clothes shall be offered exclusively as full-length gray slacks, gray socks and sneakers, and gray t-shirts, except where environmental conditions require for different kinds of gray clothing. All glasses shall be prohibited except for gray ones. All hair must be died gray.

Divisive clothing will no longer be a problem.

[Neutraligon]

So apparently going out to the beach in clothing that they feel comfortable wearing is shoving it in people's faces. Who knew? I guess that means nuns should never be allowed in public, after all that is shoving their religion in people's faces.

Nuns have a choice not to wear their uniform. And they often do.

So do Muslim women.

[The Alexanderians]

She might not want to wear the burkini,but she still has to dress modestly. But if she left Al-Islam, then nevermind.

So, she has not the option to dress "immodestly"?



A woman that's forced by her husband culture to wear the burkini, can she wear the above in public?

Why do you assume these women are forced and not choosing what they wear.

[Nacesa Plana]

So, she has not the option to dress "immodestly"?



A woman that's forced by her husband culture to wear the burkini, can she wear the above in public?

Why do you assume these women are forced and not choosing what they wear.

You say here and now, a woman wearing the burqa or burkini can opt to wear this...



...in public? Without any consequence?

[The Alexanderians]

Why do you assume these women are forced and not choosing what they wear.

You say here and now, a woman wearing the burqa or burkini can opt to wear this...



...in public? Without any consequence?

Answer my question then I answer yours

[Neutraligon]

You say here and now, a woman wearing the burqa or burkini can opt to wear this...

(Image)

...in public? Without any consequence?

Answer my question then I answer yours

Funny thing I would wear a Hijab or burkini long before I wore that outfit. Some hijabs and burkinis are pretty fashionable. That outfit on the other hand is hideous.

[Wallenburg]

You say here and now, a woman wearing the burqa or burkini can opt to wear this...

(Image)

...in public? Without any consequence?

We are certainly not saying that, especially if the woman were wearing a burqini. After all, can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be to wear both a burqini and that dress at the same time?

[The Alexanderians]

Answer my question then I answer yours

Funny thing I would wear a burqa or burkini long before I wore that outfit. Some burqas and burkinis are pretty fashionable. That outfit on the other hand is hideous.

I'm going with tacky

[Neutraligon]

Funny thing I would wear a burqa or burkini long before I wore that outfit. Some burqas and burkinis are pretty fashionable. That outfit on the other hand is hideous.

I'm going with tacky

That too.
As to the outfit vs a burqa thing, I still think I would wear the burqa first (thinking on it again), I would absolutely wear a hijab or burkini first.

[Nacesa Plana]

You say here and now, a woman wearing the burqa or burkini can opt to wear this...

(Image)

...in public? Without any consequence?

We are certainly not saying that, especially if the woman were wearing a burqini. After all, can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be to wear both a burqini and that dress at the same time?

It's always uncomfortable to wear a burkini. Or do you think women like to cover themselves in sweat?

[Neutraligon]

We are certainly not saying that, especially if the woman were wearing a burqini. After all, can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be to wear both a burqini and that dress at the same time?

It's always uncomfortable to wear a burkini. Or do you think women like to cover themselves in sweat?

Why would a burkini be sweaty when it is made out of the same material as other swimwear. And...some women do like being sweaty.

[Wallenburg]

We are certainly not saying that, especially if the woman were wearing a burqini. After all, can you imagine how uncomfortable it would be to wear both a burqini and that dress at the same time?

It's always uncomfortable to wear a burkini. Or do you think women like to cover themselves in sweat?

I did not realize that wearing clothes == covered in sweat.