Aleppo Crisis

[The Combine Force]

Hmm... did Assad's soldiers eat hearts of civilians? Nope.

A bit of bad press there, but bad press and good press is merely that. Heart eating sounds so horrible, doesn't it? Much more horrible compared to, say, 20,000 to 40,000 dead after a night of bombardment followed by house-to-house sweeps for potential insurgents. The latter sounds almost like war, there's nothing shocking about battle headlines, even though it's an incident that predates the syrian civil war. Just how it reads, innit?

"Hello American tax payers, thank's for supporting us" -Al Qaeda Syrian Rebels

Oh please, where do you have proof of the 20,000 to 40,000 dead? Cliton-Obama Shill sources?

[Novus America]

I wouldn't expect more of today's society.

well I mean table tennis
cmon man you can't shit on the most noble of all olympic sports

Well true, but this goes back to the point that an Allawite tribal dictatorship is not the way to go.

Had the Assad family never illegally seized power via coup in the first place that particular issue would not exist.

the alawites might be back in a position of persecution tho
even though they sort of are right now lol full circle
But in any case, can't blame em, they saw a chance to get on top and took it.

Well yes, the only solution is probably partition at least to the extent of recreating the Allawute state. They and the Sunnis are not going to realistically live together in peace at this point.

Well yes they saw a chance an took it. But these type of regimes rarely last. Assad could always pull a Marcos an run away with his money. You have to know when to stop.

Interesting thing here is Assad's father did not consider Assad particulary fit to rule. He was not the number one choice. He fell into the position after his brother and father died despite not having the training nor aptitude for it.

[Novus America]

Assad tended to prefer artillery. Indirect fire makes for better press than stabbing, you see.

Hmm... did Assad's soldiers eat hearts of civilians? Nope.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-04-23/s ... -all-began
Well there was this.

[Kubra]

A bit of bad press there, but bad press and good press is merely that. Heart eating sounds so horrible, doesn't it? Much more horrible compared to, say, 20,000 to 40,000 dead after a night of bombardment followed by house-to-house sweeps for potential insurgents. The latter sounds almost like war, there's nothing shocking about battle headlines, even though it's an incident that predates the syrian civil war. Just how it reads, innit?

"Hello American tax payers, thank's for supporting us" -Al Qaeda Syrian Rebels

Oh please, where do you have proof of the 20,000 to 40,000 dead? Cliton-Obama Shill sources?

One Robert Fisk for the lower end, the Syrian Human Rights Committee for the higher end. These are the numbers for a 1982 incident in the city of Hama, Syria's own Sabra and Shatila.

[The Combine Force]

"Hello American tax payers, thank's for supporting us" -Al Qaeda Syrian Rebels

Oh please, where do you have proof of the 20,000 to 40,000 dead? Cliton-Obama Shill sources?

One Robert Fisk for the lower end, the Syrian Human Rights Committee for the higher end. These are the numbers for a 1982 incident in the city of Hama, Syria's own Sabra and Shatila.

>1982

So you're saying this has nothing to do with the current fights?

[Novus America]

Well true, but this goes back to the point that an Allawite tribal dictatorship is not the way to go.

Had the Assad family never illegally seized power via coup in the first place that particular issue would not exist.

So you're saying you'd rather support the FSA which is only moderate because it doesn't wear masks and cuts heads off with knives instead of swords? Nice try.

It does not have to be the rebels, who are too much of a divided and mixed bag. It does not need be democracy either. I mean I prefer elected government when there can be a good one but I would be willing to consider other options in this case. A idiot elected leader like Al Maliki is not the solution, but neither is an idiot unelected one like Assad. If a secular dictator is needed, fine. But pick somone who actually has a clue.

I am not sure I would rather have the FSA. But neither Assad nor the FSA is the solution. A inteligent secular Sunni dictator who allows some freedoms like the King of Jordan would be fine.

[Kubra]

well I mean table tennis
cmon man you can't shit on the most noble of all olympic sports

the alawites might be back in a position of persecution tho
even though they sort of are right now lol full circle
But in any case, can't blame em, they saw a chance to get on top and took it.

Well yes, the only solution is probably partition at least to the extent of recreating the Allawute state. They and the Sunnis are not going to realistically live together in peace at this point.

Well yes they saw a chance an took it. But these type of regimes rarely last. Assad could always pull a Marcos an run away with his money. You have to know when to stop.

Interesting thing here is Assad's father did not consider Assad particulary fit to rule. He was not the number one choice. He fell into the position after his brother and father died despite not having the training nor aptitude for it.

Oh no that's also problematic, they're a coastal people and even when it involves getting away from a hated minority ports are just too valuable. Want ports hate alawites, the course of action sorta sets itself.
Assad could have, but his interests were not personal, again, but part of his sectarian position. He can't just up an abandon his people. The alawites, I mean, not those inland sunni's, not even the druze.
Really now, the solution now is to simply let a roman peace occur, in which one side definitively eradicates the other.
That's a notion that sickens me to the bottom of my stomach, I feel shame in even suggesting such, but it's so far proven itself the only lasting cure to the matter of sectarian strife.

[Novus America]

One Robert Fisk for the lower end, the Syrian Human Rights Committee for the higher end. These are the numbers for a 1982 incident in the city of Hama, Syria's own Sabra and Shatila.

>1982

So you're saying this has nothing to do with the current fights?

Way more have died in the current fights. Hundreds of thousands.

[The Combine Force]

So you're saying you'd rather support the FSA which is only moderate because it doesn't wear masks and cuts heads off with knives instead of swords? Nice try.

It does not have to be the rebels, who are too much of a divided and mixed bag. It does not need be democracy either. I mean I prefer elected government when there can be a good one but I would be willing to consider other options in this case. A idiot elected leader like Al Maliki is not the solution, but neither is an idiot unelected one like Assad. If a secular dictator is needed, fine. But pick somone who actually has a clue.

I am not sure I would rather have the FSA. But neither Assad nor the FSA is the solution. A inteligent secular Sunni dictator who allows some freedoms like the King of Jordan would be fine.

"A intelligent secular Sunni dictator who allows some freedoms like the King of Jordan would be fine."

As long as he doesn't bring up Sharia law and remains secular, he's fine with me.
The only thing good about the FSA is the flag doe.

[Kubra]

One Robert Fisk for the lower end, the Syrian Human Rights Committee for the higher end. These are the numbers for a 1982 incident in the city of Hama, Syria's own Sabra and Shatila.

>1982

So you're saying this has nothing to do with the current fights?

I used it of an example of a particular sort of press, compared to another sort of press. What's a bit of heart munching, next to a 152mm howitzer? I think I fear the latter more, to be honest.

[Novus America]

The sooner the Siege of Aleppo is over - and that means one side, likelist Assad one has won - it the better for most of the Civilian Population.

All this humanitarian whinery and neocon wankery ain't gonna change this.

tl;dr: Total War = Shortest War.

Umm ending the siege of Aleppo is not going to solve Syria's long term problems.
And if total war is the shortest war why is this war taking so damn long? And a lot of non total wars have been much shorter?

[The Combine Force]

>1982

So you're saying this has nothing to do with the current fights?

I used it of an example of a particular sort of press, compared to another sort of press. What's a bit of heart munching, next to a 152mm howitzer? I think I fear the latter more, to be honest.

The Syrian rebels (involved or non-involved with the FSA) have a shit ton of good press in the world...
what the hell are you talking about.

ALSO: IT STILL DOESN'T APPROVE OF EATING HEARTS, THAT'S NOT MODERATE.

[Kubra]

I used it of an example of a particular sort of press, compared to another sort of press. What's a bit of heart munching, next to a 152mm howitzer? I think I fear the latter more, to be honest.

The Syrian rebels (involved or non-involved with the FSA) have a shit ton of good press in the world...
what the hell are you talking about.

ALSO: IT STILL DOESN'T APPROVE OF EATING HEARTS, THAT'S NOT MODERATE.

Well I don't myself much approve of some nutter wanting to have a go at my blood beater, but between him and getting 50kg worth of high explosives fall next to me, well, I think I'd probably take my chances with the heart muncher. He's harmless, if he had a 152mm howitzer he wouldn't have to bother with the heart munching.

They also have bad press. There's the bit where they did the whole house-to-house extermination bit in latakia, that was pretty bad.

[Dushan]

Umm ending the siege of Aleppo is not going to solve Syria's long term problems.

It will solve the short term problem the Press, the Think Tanks and other associated Elements are whining about though. And possible a lot less People suffer once its over.

And if total war is the shortest war why is this war taking so damn long? And a lot of non total wars have been much shorter?

Point is the longer the War drags on, the more Civilians will suffer, the more will die. A quick and decisive end might be the best.

[Novus America]

Well yes, the only solution is probably partition at least to the extent of recreating the Allawute state. They and the Sunnis are not going to realistically live together in peace at this point.

Well yes they saw a chance an took it. But these type of regimes rarely last. Assad could always pull a Marcos an run away with his money. You have to know when to stop.

Interesting thing here is Assad's father did not consider Assad particulary fit to rule. He was not the number one choice. He fell into the position after his brother and father died despite not having the training nor aptitude for it.

Oh no that's also problematic, they're a coastal people and even when it involves getting away from a hated minority ports are just too valuable. Want ports hate alawites, the course of action sorta sets itself.
Assad could have, but his interests were not personal, again, but part of his sectarian position. He can't just up an abandon his people. The alawites, I mean, not those inland sunni's, not even the druze.
Really now, the solution now is to simply let a roman peace occur, in which one side definitively eradicates the other.
That's a notion that sickens me to the bottom of my stomach, I feel shame in even suggesting such, but it's so far proven itself the only lasting cure to the matter of sectarian strife.

Well I even worked out a partial solution for that. My new Allawite state would only the include the Tartus governorate and the Jableh and Qardaha districts of the Latakia governorate. Latakia wich is about half Sunni would go to the Sunni state so they still get a port.

Otherwise like you say eventually the Allawites, who are only 10% are going to get killed off.

The Alawites can clearly no longer safely control the who country and the hostile majority. Something has to change.

[The Combine Force]

Hmm... did Assad's soldiers eat hearts of civilians? Nope.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-04-23/s ... -all-began
Well there was this.

>Posts western media as a source

[Novus America]

Umm ending the siege of Aleppo is not going to solve Syria's long term problems.

It will solve the short term problem the Press, the Think Tanks and other associated Elements are whining about though. And possible a lot less People suffer once its over.

And if total war is the shortest war why is this war taking so damn long? And a lot of non total wars have been much shorter?

Point is the longer the War drags on, the more Civilians will suffer, the more will die. A quick and decisive end might be the best.

It will not solve anything. It would move press attention away from Aleppo to elsewhere but that is not going to solve Syria's ills.

A quick decisive end to the war is simply not going to happen.

[Kubra]

Umm ending the siege of Aleppo is not going to solve Syria's long term problems.

It will solve the short term problem the Press, the Think Tanks and other associated Elements are whining about though. And possible a lot less People suffer once its over.

And if total war is the shortest war why is this war taking so damn long? And a lot of non total wars have been much shorter?

Point is the longer the War drags on, the more Civilians will suffer, the more will die. A quick and decisive end might be the best.

lol but like no one is a position to put an end to the war
the alawites have lost a third of their manpower in the war, they're currently wholly reliant on imported fighters from Lebanon and Russia, the former getting less and less keen on the war as time drags and the latter being in a position where it basically can't send that much without drawing too much flak on the diplomatic stage.
The sunni's, they got manpower for days, but therein lies a real irony. syrian sunni's that are actively part of the fighting are such a small fraction compared to the estimated number of military aged males in or from syria. Simply put, barely anyone wants to join that shit, and as the years go by it seems that they want to join that shit even less.
Naw, it's endless turf war from now until who knows when.

[Kubra]

Oh no that's also problematic, they're a coastal people and even when it involves getting away from a hated minority ports are just too valuable. Want ports hate alawites, the course of action sorta sets itself.
Assad could have, but his interests were not personal, again, but part of his sectarian position. He can't just up an abandon his people. The alawites, I mean, not those inland sunni's, not even the druze.
Really now, the solution now is to simply let a roman peace occur, in which one side definitively eradicates the other.
That's a notion that sickens me to the bottom of my stomach, I feel shame in even suggesting such, but it's so far proven itself the only lasting cure to the matter of sectarian strife.

Well I even worked out a partial solution for that. My new Allawite state would only the include the Tartus governorate and the Jableh and Qardaha districts of the Latakia governorate. Latakia wich is about half Sunni would go to the Sunni state so they still get a port.

Otherwise like you say eventually the Allawites, who are only 10% are going to get killed off.

The Alawites can clearly no longer safely control the who country and the hostile majority. Something has to change.

I mean, they could barely before, but this doesn't solve every problem. The rest of the minorities are in just as shit of situations, and they all can't simply be given countries.
I suppose if the alawites win they could go back to trying to be more sunni again, maybe put in a sham lower house. Sham lower houses are underrated.

[Novus America]

Well I even worked out a partial solution for that. My new Allawite state would only the include the Tartus governorate and the Jableh and Qardaha districts of the Latakia governorate. Latakia wich is about half Sunni would go to the Sunni state so they still get a port.

Otherwise like you say eventually the Allawites, who are only 10% are going to get killed off.

The Alawites can clearly no longer safely control the who country and the hostile majority. Something has to change.

I mean, they could barely before, but this doesn't solve every problem. The rest of the minorities are in just as shit of situations, and they all can't simply be given countries.
I suppose if the alawites win they could go back to trying to be more sunni again, maybe put in a sham lower house. Sham lower houses are underrated.

Well yeah, it does not solve all the problems. Which is why I like the King of Jordan type guy. He is a Sunni but minorities do okay, actually some 150,000 Iraqi Christians moved to Jordan. And their king does the sham lower house thing like a boss. Not saying Jordan is some paradise, it is not but it is much better than Syria for sure.

Syria does have sham legislature, just does not do a good job at it.

[Freefall11111]

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-04-23/s ... -all-began
Well there was this.

>Posts western media as a source

This isn't 4chan, get that shit out of here.

[Dushan]

It will not solve anything. It would move press attention away from Aleppo to elsewhere but that is not going to solve Syria's ills.

It will likely lead to a collapse of some of the so called "moderate" rebel Factions, if not their entire Front. For them the War will be likely over unless the join ISIS or some local Sunni Power (or Hillary Clinton) decides that it can't take the loss of Aleppo and joins the mayham.

A quick decisive end to the war is simply not going to happen.

If Aleppo falls it could be a major turning point in the War.

lol but like no one is a position to put an end to the war
the alawites have lost a third of their manpower in the war, they're currently wholly reliant on imported fighters from Lebanon and Russia, the former getting less and less keen on the war as time drags and the latter being in a position where it basically can't send that much without drawing too much flak on the diplomatic stage.
The sunni's, they got manpower for days, but therein lies a real irony. syrian sunni's that are actively part of the fighting are such a small fraction compared to the estimated number of military aged males in or from syria. Simply put, barely anyone wants to join that shit, and as the years go by it seems that they want to join that shit even less.
Naw, it's endless turf war from now until who knows when.

From a viewpoint of War Economics and Manpower etc this is all true and I agree with your assassment.

However from a military viewpoint a single decisive Victory - such as a collapse of the Aleppo Front - or series thereof could have a major effect on the course and potentially the outcome of the War. If not for tactical or strategical reasons then for political and psychological reasons.

[The Combine Force]

>Posts western media as a source

This isn't 4chan, get that shit out of here.

Not an argument, back to reddit you go.

[Freefall11111]

This isn't 4chan, get that shit out of here.

Not an argument, back to reddit you go.

Neither is posting a meme titled "rapefugees" with no citations, back to /pol/ you go.

[Dushan]

>Posts western media as a source

This isn't 4chan, get that shit out of here.

Still true though.