Unarmed therapist shot by police - had hands in air, on grnd

[Ifreann]

Would it? Firearms, to the best of my knowledge, function as weapons in that they propel small pieces of metal at rather considerable speeds. They do not, again, to the best of my knowledge, create impenetrable forcefields or deploy impervious armour. Having a gun doesn't mean that one cannot be shot. It doesn't mean that a bomb cannot be placed under one's car. It doesn't mean that one's house cannot be burned down. It doesn't mean that one cannot be attacked from behind with a stick. It doesn't mean that one cannot be stuck with the pointy end of something. I suppose it might stop a bullet if one were shot in the hip from the side, but that seems fairly unlikely.

So, basically you're saying because there's numerous ways for people to be killed they should not be given means of self defense in a line of work that puts them at risk? That's kind of a lame argument to be frank.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that officers are still vulnerable to attack if they are carrying guns. I'm saying this in response to your question about disarmed officers being easy targets for attack. And obviously this is the case. Having a gun doesn't make one a harder target for attack.

Do you have anything else to say to my point about a need for armed officers not being the same thing as a need for all officers to be armed?

Sure, it's not body armor and I'm not saying it's body armor. But if an officer were under fire a gun would probably help as opposed to not having one.

It might. Or it might not. After all, police officers are generally only issued a handgun and, what, two spare magazines? Now I'm no expert on the shooty-shooty-bang-bangs, but I suspect that's not a winning hand in all situations.

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Cops should carry more than just guns on a regular basis. They should also have tasers and tasers bullets. I know there are problems with tasers, but it is better than outright killing people.

Taser bullets? Don't think they exist. Except those taser shotgun things.

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The "problems with tasers" include "not working" and "being occasionally ineffective".

Tranquillizer darts, then?

Also don't work.

[Hurdergaryp]

Tranquillizer darts, then?

Also don't work.

Hrm. Bullet-proof robotic exoskeletons for police officers, then? When offensive measures either don't work or work too well, you may want to look into defensive measures.

[Ifreann]

Also don't work.

Hrm. Bullet-proof robotic exoskeletons for police officers, then? When offensive measures either don't work or work too well, you may want to look into defensive measures.

The Brotherhood of Steel would make great cops.

[Hurdergaryp]

Hrm. Bullet-proof robotic exoskeletons for police officers, then? When offensive measures either don't work or work too well, you may want to look into defensive measures.

The Brotherhood of Steel would make great cops.

Seems like a better choice than Space Marines, yes.

[Zeinbrad]

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

[Hurdergaryp]

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Why not taekwondo?

[Ifreann]

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Cop Fu.

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Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Why not taekwondo?

Taecwopdo.

[Gauthier]

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Cop Fu.

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Why not taekwondo?

Taecwopdo.

Copoeira. I wanna see dancing police officers.

[Ethel mermania]

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Or not to shoot at a mentally disabled child sitting on the ground. I would prefer that.

[States of Glory]

I may be wrong (please correct me if I am), but I believe that Ifreann is Irish. I don't know about the Irish police force and firearms, but I do know that police officers in Northern Ireland are armed (blame the Troubles). It's true, though, that only select officers are armed in the rest of the UK. Even then, guns are only used as a last resort if de-escalation, CS spray, batons and tasers don't work. Even then, cops have to write up a report if they so much as draw their firearm, let alone discharge it.

Now compare that to having your average traffic cop start shooting wildly if someone dares to go half a mile over the speed limit. I'm being hyperbolic, of course, but at this point, I'm sad to say that I won't be surprised.

Drawing your firearm or a CS can is an inherent show of force - one that will probably bring the situation under control.

It's worth being a paperwork-inducing exercise.
Imagine if US police had to justify drawing their firearm.

Yeah, I know, I was trying (and failing, it appears) to depict the UK police system in a more positive light than the US police system.

Clearly, we should teach all cops Kung fu.

Or do nothing because the cops can obviously do no wrong.

[Wrodlo]

The fact that people have to remind themselves there
are good cops is problem enough. In my opinion police
are bad by nature because they are used to suppress
and intimidate. I don't support direct acts of violence
against officers excluding the ones who have declared
that they "...are at war with the ones that they serve" or
have said things like "make no mistake, this is war." I
would rather see their corporate employers killed
because it is all intentional. I think it was in my state
there was a recording of our chief of police saying
something about needing to arrest more minorities
70+% failure on field drug tests just shows that the
for profit prison system doesn't care how much it ruins
lives or who it kills.

[Wrodlo]

The "problems with tasers" include "not working" and "being occasionally ineffective".

Tranquillizer darts, then?

No don't be silly let the
police use lethal force immediately. I've seen cops pull tasers a couple times but guns are a favorite! Lethal force is acceptable when restraining a patient too, trust me! The only reason why they don't kill the patient is because they don't have enough training.

[The Alexanderians]

The mentally disabled person had no right to be blocking a roadway, with their condition being no excuse. I think that perhaps the mental health center should be held legally liable for allowing this person to escape.

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

[Hurdergaryp]

The mentally disabled person had no right to be blocking a roadway, with their condition being no excuse. I think that perhaps the mental health center should be held legally liable for allowing this person to escape.

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

Statements such as the one made by Saiwania tend to be facilitated by a lack of knowledge, experience and empathy, so you probably have a point there.

[Imperializt Russia]

The "problems with tasers" include "not working" and "being occasionally ineffective".

Tranquillizer darts, then?

Even less effective by a wide margin. At least when taser does work, it takes effect immediately.

Drawing your firearm or a CS can is an inherent show of force - one that will probably bring the situation under control.

It's worth being a paperwork-inducing exercise.
Imagine if US police had to justify drawing their firearm.

Yeah, I know, I was trying (and failing, it appears) to depict the UK police system in a more positive light than the US police system.

I was suggesting it would be good for the standard of US policing if they did have to justify drawing their firearms.

[Saiwania]

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

[Luminesa]

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

Dude. It's not like he was there because he wanted to block traffic. He was probably lost and confused.

[Grenartia]

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

You have no idea what autism even is, do you?

[Xenunian Galactic Confederacy]

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

You have no idea what autism even is, do you?

Most people don't. That is why they misunderstand people with developmental disabilities and with a mental illness. Unless they react like the cops decree they should act, then trouble starts.
We need a better solution.

[Llamalandia]

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

Ok, well sure. Then the police should do what they do with everyone else, assess the situation and disarm the suspect if necessary and arrest him. You don't need to shoot at people to get them out of the road way at least not In This situation. Again, who knows maybe there is more to the story but so far it looks like cops way overreacted.

[Llamalandia]

You have no idea what autism even is, do you?

Most people don't. That is why they misunderstand people with developmental disabilities and with a mental illness. Unless they react like the cops decree they should act, then trouble starts.
We need a better solution.

Well even if they were resisting the cops, the escalation shouldn't go from talking straight to shooting without something in between. Again, I get they originally thought the at least one of the two people was armed but it should have been pretty clears that wasn't the case, at which point simply taking them into custody and making a couple of phone calls likely would have solved the problem.

[Imperializt Russia]

...You've never seen a severely autistic person for a length of time before have you?

I know that they are too absorbed in what they're doing but I still don't see it as a valid excuse to obstruct traffic. They need to keep out of the street like regular pedestrians and if they don't, they shall be punished. If it would be cruel to do so, whoever looks after them can perhaps be punished on their behalf.

You say "valid excuse" as though you think he intended to block traffic and just didn't know better.
He almost certainly didn't know where he was, else he wouldn't be blocking traffic.

[States of Glory]

Yeah, I know, I was trying (and failing, it appears) to depict the UK police system in a more positive light than the US police system.

I was suggesting it would be good for the standard of US policing if they did have to justify drawing their firearms.

Indeed. Wait, what are we even disagreeing on?

Ok, well sure. Then the police should do what they do with everyone else, assess the situation and disarm the suspect if necessary and arrest him.

I don't think that's what they do with everyone else. By the looks of it, instantly shooting people appears to the most common course of action to any problem. Zero percent recidivism rate, amirite?

[Saiwania]

I don't think anyone is really arguing that they should've been shot for ignoring an order. The police officer was clearly out of line. But with the approach that I favor, I cannot guarantee that the autistic person wouldn't get manhandled. If they don't get out of the way, they have to get moved by force. I'd at least be in favor of the toy truck being confiscated. The therapist can perhaps be given a ticket for letting their patient get lost.

[Grenartia]

I don't think anyone is really arguing that they should've been shot for ignoring an order. The police officer was clearly out of line. But with the approach that I favor, I cannot guarantee that the autistic person wouldn't get manhandled. If they don't get out of the way, they have to get moved by force. I'd at least be in favor of the toy truck being confiscated. The therapist can perhaps be given a ticket for letting their patient get lost.

Such edge.