Unarmed therapist shot by police - had hands in air, on grnd

[Gauthier]

Question: if you shoot at someone, but hit someone else, whose criminal record do you release first?

The one who was hit, duh. All the more important since he didn't die so he's likely to sue.

[New Grestin]

It's like an Onion article in real life or something.

Holy shit. We've reached the nexus point, folks.

Poe's Law is invading real life.

[Giovenith]

Incidents like this make me think that maybe there is a God, but like, he's a really kind of twisted guy who is purposely trying to see just how obviously not a threat and in the right he can make the people shot in these scenarios before people finally collectively deem the cops in the wrong.

"Holy shit man, I made him an educated licensed therapist, set him up with a disabled person, put him in the most submissive position possible, and they STILL shot him! I think next, I'll see what they do when the guy is like, a quadriplegic with a PhD reading to blind orphans..."

[Gauthier]

Incidents like this make me think that maybe there is a God, but like, he's a really kind of twisted guy who is purposely trying to see just how obviously not a threat and in the right he can make the people shot in these scenarios before people finally collectively deem the cops in the wrong.

"Holy shit man, I made him an educated licensed therapist, set him up with a disabled person, put him in the most submissive position possible, and they STILL shot him! I think next, I'll see what they do when the guy is like, a quadriplegic with a PhD reading to blind orphans..."

You mean He didn't give himself a concussion with the facepalm over Philando Castile?

[Neutraligon]

If what the officer said about aiming at the autistic man is true, then he needs to have his fire arm removed and needs to go through training again (among other things). He shot three times, and not only missed three times, he hit an innocent bystander who he claims he was trying to protect. That is incompetence to the extreme, especially when the autistic man was sitting on the ground. How do you miss that shot not once, not trice, but three times and harm a bystander?

[Vashty]

This is why in my country we don't just let the police have guns.

[New Grestin]

"Holy shit man, I made him an educated licensed therapist, set him up with a disabled person, put him in the most submissive position possible, and they STILL shot him! I think next, I'll see what they do when the guy is like, a quadriplegic with a PhD reading to blind orphans..."

In other news, police deployed SWAT teams in Phoenix today after reports came in of a wheelchair bound man playing cards in the park. According to authorities, the SWAT team approached the man, requesting that he put down the cards and raise his hands. The man failed to comply, stating, quote:

"Wait, what?"

According to the officers, they immediately opened fire, claiming the potential for paper-cuts was far too high. Their reasoning for emptying eight full magazines into the man is reported to be "just making sure."

None of the officers will be charged. They are all angels to the community, and their annual blowjobs and cake party will continue as planned.

Back to you, Tom.

[Neutraligon]

This is why in my country we don't just let the police have guns.

Given the size of the US that isn't possible here.

[Vashty]

If what the officer said about aiming at the autistic man is true, then he needs to have his fire arm removed and needs to go through training again (among other things). He shot three times, and not only missed three times, he hit an innocent bystander who he claims he was trying to protect. That is incompetence to the extreme, especially when the autistic man was sitting on the ground. How do you miss that shot not once, not trice, but three times and harm a bystander?

Fuck him.

Should be demoted and moved to a desk job. He is a hazard to his colleagues and the public.

[Vashty]

This is why in my country we don't just let the police have guns.

Given the size of the US that isn't possible here.

well for god's sake at least keep the fucking magazines out the rifle until you need them

[Neutraligon]

Given the size of the US that isn't possible here.

well for god's sake at least keep the fucking magazines out the rifle until you need them

Like I said, in need of serious training when it comes to using firearms. And I mean for the entire force.

[Xenunian Galactic Confederacy]

Amen ! Until this nation can realize that a gun is made for one purpose and one purpose only : TO KILL
NUntil then, let the blood flow so high that creates a river of blood. Let the corpses build av hill and let the stench of there decay fill the land.

You're silly.

No, it is not silly.

You will ALWAYS kill the disabled. ALWAYS. We just have to wait until our disgust becomes so strong that was don't do it anymore.

[Kazirstan]

ACAB

[Quokkastan]

You're silly.

No, it is not silly.

You will ALWAYS kill the disabled. ALWAYS. We just have to wait until our disgust becomes so strong that was don't do it anymore.

Ifreann will?

That doesn't seem like him...

[New Grestin]

No, it is not silly.

You will ALWAYS kill the disabled. ALWAYS. We just have to wait until our disgust becomes so strong that was don't do it anymore.

[Ethel mermania]

While this instance is completely unacceptable, it is patently ridiculous to imply that this is at all a common occurrence in the US. It is an exceedingly rare occurrence, and the vast majority of officers never fire their weapon in their entire career. If the Police were so gung-ho about killing people wantonly, you would think that more than 1000 cases would exist last year of police homicide (The vast majority of which involved an individual utilizing a deadly weapon on another person). Partigularly given that there are 1 million officers in the US.

That said, there is a an issue with how law enforcement deals with these instances that do arise, and a significant bias does exist in favor of officers regardless of whether or not deadly force is justified. I am absolutely in support of dealing with these instances through an independent agency, preferably one that is out of state.

I honestly wouldn't mind a federal agency for this purpose, particularly when a death is involved. It wouldn't even have to be a really big agency - I'll bet the FBI would allow them to use their lab and so forth.

In a disconnected agency, case done by a federal prosecutor, the impartiality of it would be difficult to challenge.

i dont mind the state doing it, if it is a local cop, or the feds if it is a state cop. but i do agree the local jurisdiction should not do the decision to indict, or the evaluation of the evidence

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

So the local police union representative has come out and made a statement on the situation and well, it's really not very good.

Bullet that struck caregiver was meant to protect him, police union prez says

The North Miami police officer who shot an unarmed, black mental health worker caring for a patient actually took aim at the autistic man next to him, but missed, the head of the police union said Thursday.

It was a stunning admission from the police officer and from John Rivera, who heads up Miami-Dade’s Police Benevolent Association. But it was one meant to calm the fears of a nation besieged with cellphone videos of police shooting and sometimes killing unarmed black men.

In this case, Rivera said, the officer ended up wounding the man he was trying to save.

“I couldn’t allow this to continue for the community’s sake,” Rivera said Thursday during a hastily called press conference at the union’s Doral office. “Folks, this is not what the rest of the nation is going through.”

North Miami police and investigators have been tight-lipped since the Monday shooting, even as video of most of the encounter has been released. The story gained international attention and public pressure for answers mounted.

Earlier Thursday, North Miami Police Chief Gary Eugene spoke briefly for the first time, but said little other than that no weapon had been found and that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement had taken over the investigation.

The chief didn’t take any questions and refused to name the officer. The city said he is a 30-year-old Hispanic male who has been on the force for four years. As Eugene was leaving the podium, he refused to answer even more questions.

Rivera called the officer who shot Charles Kinsey, “decorated” and said he was a member of city’s SWAT team. The name of the autistic man hasn’t been released. He appears to be a white Hispanic on the video.

On Monday, a North Miami police officer shot Kinsey, 47, after, police said, mistakenly believing that Kinsey was going to be killed by the 23-year-old autistic man playing with a toy truck who was sitting on the ground next to him. Rivera said the officer feared the autistic man had a weapon.

Police raced to Northeast 127th Street and 14th Avenue after receiving a 911 call saying there was a man in the roadway with a gun who was going to kill himself. When they got there, they found the man sitting on the ground with his truck and Kinsey, who was trying to coax the man back inside the nearby mental health center, MacTown Panther Group Home.

When police barked orders for the two to lie down with their hands up, Kinsey complied.

“Mr. Kinsey did everything right,” Rivera said.

The autistic man ignored the orders of police yelling for the men to lie down. Some of the officers were behind poles on the street. Others were behind their patrol vehicles.

Then, while Kinsey was lying supine with his hands in the air and the autistic man sat beside him, an officer fired three rounds from an assault rifle, according to North Miami police. One bullet found a target — Kinsey.

He was shot in the leg and transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he continues to recover. Kinsey is expected to be released this week.

According to a law-enforcement source, the officer who shot Kinsey was taking cover behind a squad car and fired from at least 50 yards away. He shot after another officer, in a radio transmission, suggested the autistic man was loading his weapon, which turned out to be the toy truck, the source said.

In interviews, Kinsey said he repeatedly told police while he was lying on the ground that there was no weapon and not to shoot. Rivera said North Miami police couldn’t hear his cries. The union president didn’t know how far the police were from Kinsey.

Most of the confrontation was captured on a cellphone camera and the video has caused a buzz around the world. It was released to the Miami Herald by Kinsey’s attorney Hilton Napoleon.

Calls and texts to Napoleon were not returned Thursday. The attorney didn’t say if portions of the video were edited out. It doesn’t appear to show the actual shooting.

On Wednesday, only two days after the shooting, Napoleon said he was already in settlement discussions with North Miami’s manager.

The shooting took place about a block from the MacTown Panther Group Home at 1365 NE 128th St. It’s a slightly run-down home with a hibiscus hedge, a blue basketball hoop and a weed-filled planter.

At one point Thursday a blue minivan filled with special-needs folks pulled up and workers escorted them by hand into the home. Neighbors say it’s not uncommon for adults to go on walks around the neighborhood, often in groups and always with a caretaker.

Kinsey was shot just around the corner from the home, in front of an electrical grid station. Calls to MacTown president and CEO Clint Bower were not returned Thursday.

The shooting of Kinsey and the video that accompanied the stories caused an uproar. Thursday night about 40 Black Lives Matter protestors stormed into the North Miami police department demanding that the officer who shot Kinsey be fired.

Earlier in the day, Democratic U.S. Congresswoman Frederica Wilson of Miami Gardens visited North Miami Thursday and made a brief statement saying, “We’re all in shock today,” and calling for officers to be trained in dealing with autism and mental-health issues.

Rivera said it wasn’t clear Thursday if the officer who fired his weapon had undergone Crisis Intervention Training. The session is required in many departments when an officer joins and is urged as a refresher in ensuing years. It is not required in North Miami.

Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said her office would wait for the findings of the FDLE investigation before determining if the officer should face criminal charges.

Despite Rivera’s admission, firearms experts and civil liberty groups expressed dismay at the shooting, mostly laying the blame on improper training and poor decision-making.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida called for North Miami police to review its use-of-force policies and how they equip officers in dealing with autistic and mentally ill people.

In his statement, ACLU Executive Director Howard Simon cited the recent shooting deaths of Philando Castile in Minnesota, Alton Sterling in Louisiana and Vernell Bing in Jacksonville. Simon said of the 598 people the ACLU has documented who were shot and killed by police in the U.S. this year, 88 were unarmed.

“Kinsey or his patient could easily have become No. 89,” he said. “There must be a thorough and independent investigation into this shooting that covers both whether officers violated internal use of deadly force policies and whether criminal charges should be brought.”

Retired firearms expert Robert Hoelscher, who spent 50 years with the Miami-Dade Police Department, said it’s hard to perceive how the situation was misjudged, but it was — grossly.

“I wish there was something positive I could say. You arrive on scene and a guy’s playing with a toy truck. Why do you bring out the assault rifle?” Hoelscher asked. “You can’t get enough training when you’re dealing with lethal force. This is as bad a situation as I’ve ever seen. It’s a good thing he was obviously a lousy marksman.”

Rivera, at the end of his press conference Thursday, read from a statement he said was from the North Miami officer who shot Kinsey.

“I took this job to save lives and help people,” the officer said. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something that I’m not.”

So we're left with a situation where not only was an autistic man with a toy truck perceived to be enough of a threat by police officers, despite Kinsey's word, that the officer in question opened fire on the autistic man but missed and hit Kinsey instead. Worse, the officer is apparently a SWAT team member. This is a pretty monumental fuckup no matter how you spin it.

[Neutraligon]

So the local police union representative has come out and made a statement on the situation and well, it's really not very good.

Bullet that struck caregiver was meant to protect him, police union prez says

The North Miami police officer who shot an unarmed, black mental health worker caring for a patient actually took aim at the autistic man next to him, but missed, the head of the police union said Thursday.

It was a stunning admission from the police officer and from John Rivera, who heads up Miami-Dade’s Police Benevolent Association. But it was one meant to calm the fears of a nation besieged with cellphone videos of police shooting and sometimes killing unarmed black men.

In this case, Rivera said, the officer ended up wounding the man he was trying to save.

“I couldn’t allow this to continue for the community’s sake,” Rivera said Thursday during a hastily called press conference at the union’s Doral office. “Folks, this is not what the rest of the nation is going through.”

North Miami police and investigators have been tight-lipped since the Monday shooting, even as video of most of the encounter has been released. The story gained international attention and public pressure for answers mounted.

Earlier Thursday, North Miami Police Chief Gary Eugene spoke briefly for the first time, but said little other than that no weapon had been found and that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement had taken over the investigation.

The chief didn’t take any questions and refused to name the officer. The city said he is a 30-year-old Hispanic male who has been on the force for four years. As Eugene was leaving the podium, he refused to answer even more questions.

Rivera called the officer who shot Charles Kinsey, “decorated” and said he was a member of city’s SWAT team. The name of the autistic man hasn’t been released. He appears to be a white Hispanic on the video.

On Monday, a North Miami police officer shot Kinsey, 47, after, police said, mistakenly believing that Kinsey was going to be killed by the 23-year-old autistic man playing with a toy truck who was sitting on the ground next to him. Rivera said the officer feared the autistic man had a weapon.

Police raced to Northeast 127th Street and 14th Avenue after receiving a 911 call saying there was a man in the roadway with a gun who was going to kill himself. When they got there, they found the man sitting on the ground with his truck and Kinsey, who was trying to coax the man back inside the nearby mental health center, MacTown Panther Group Home.

When police barked orders for the two to lie down with their hands up, Kinsey complied.

“Mr. Kinsey did everything right,” Rivera said.

The autistic man ignored the orders of police yelling for the men to lie down. Some of the officers were behind poles on the street. Others were behind their patrol vehicles.

Then, while Kinsey was lying supine with his hands in the air and the autistic man sat beside him, an officer fired three rounds from an assault rifle, according to North Miami police. One bullet found a target — Kinsey.

He was shot in the leg and transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he continues to recover. Kinsey is expected to be released this week.

According to a law-enforcement source, the officer who shot Kinsey was taking cover behind a squad car and fired from at least 50 yards away. He shot after another officer, in a radio transmission, suggested the autistic man was loading his weapon, which turned out to be the toy truck, the source said.

In interviews, Kinsey said he repeatedly told police while he was lying on the ground that there was no weapon and not to shoot. Rivera said North Miami police couldn’t hear his cries. The union president didn’t know how far the police were from Kinsey.

Most of the confrontation was captured on a cellphone camera and the video has caused a buzz around the world. It was released to the Miami Herald by Kinsey’s attorney Hilton Napoleon.

Calls and texts to Napoleon were not returned Thursday. The attorney didn’t say if portions of the video were edited out. It doesn’t appear to show the actual shooting.

On Wednesday, only two days after the shooting, Napoleon said he was already in settlement discussions with North Miami’s manager.

The shooting took place about a block from the MacTown Panther Group Home at 1365 NE 128th St. It’s a slightly run-down home with a hibiscus hedge, a blue basketball hoop and a weed-filled planter.

At one point Thursday a blue minivan filled with special-needs folks pulled up and workers escorted them by hand into the home. Neighbors say it’s not uncommon for adults to go on walks around the neighborhood, often in groups and always with a caretaker.

Kinsey was shot just around the corner from the home, in front of an electrical grid station. Calls to MacTown president and CEO Clint Bower were not returned Thursday.

The shooting of Kinsey and the video that accompanied the stories caused an uproar. Thursday night about 40 Black Lives Matter protestors stormed into the North Miami police department demanding that the officer who shot Kinsey be fired.

Earlier in the day, Democratic U.S. Congresswoman Frederica Wilson of Miami Gardens visited North Miami Thursday and made a brief statement saying, “We’re all in shock today,” and calling for officers to be trained in dealing with autism and mental-health issues.

Rivera said it wasn’t clear Thursday if the officer who fired his weapon had undergone Crisis Intervention Training. The session is required in many departments when an officer joins and is urged as a refresher in ensuing years. It is not required in North Miami.

Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said her office would wait for the findings of the FDLE investigation before determining if the officer should face criminal charges.

Despite Rivera’s admission, firearms experts and civil liberty groups expressed dismay at the shooting, mostly laying the blame on improper training and poor decision-making.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida called for North Miami police to review its use-of-force policies and how they equip officers in dealing with autistic and mentally ill people.

In his statement, ACLU Executive Director Howard Simon cited the recent shooting deaths of Philando Castile in Minnesota, Alton Sterling in Louisiana and Vernell Bing in Jacksonville. Simon said of the 598 people the ACLU has documented who were shot and killed by police in the U.S. this year, 88 were unarmed.

“Kinsey or his patient could easily have become No. 89,” he said. “There must be a thorough and independent investigation into this shooting that covers both whether officers violated internal use of deadly force policies and whether criminal charges should be brought.”

Retired firearms expert Robert Hoelscher, who spent 50 years with the Miami-Dade Police Department, said it’s hard to perceive how the situation was misjudged, but it was — grossly.

“I wish there was something positive I could say. You arrive on scene and a guy’s playing with a toy truck. Why do you bring out the assault rifle?” Hoelscher asked. “You can’t get enough training when you’re dealing with lethal force. This is as bad a situation as I’ve ever seen. It’s a good thing he was obviously a lousy marksman.”

Rivera, at the end of his press conference Thursday, read from a statement he said was from the North Miami officer who shot Kinsey.

“I took this job to save lives and help people,” the officer said. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something that I’m not.”

So we're left with a situation where not only was an autistic man with a toy truck perceived to be enough of a threat by police officers, despite Kinsey's word, that the officer in question opened fire on the autistic man but missed and hit Kinsey instead. Worse, the officer is apparently a SWAT team member. This is a pretty monumental fuckup no matter how you spin it.

Like I said a few posts up

If what the officer said about aiming at the autistic man is true, then he needs to have his fire arm removed and needs to go through training again (among other things). He shot three times, and not only missed three times, he hit an innocent bystander who he claims he was trying to protect. That is incompetence to the extreme, especially when the autistic man was sitting on the ground. How do you miss that shot not once, not trice, but three times and harm a bystander?

[Imperializt Russia]

"I hate to hear others paint me as something I'm not"

OK. You're a boob, sir. An incompetent fucking boob.

My question is, if the guy was allegedly going to kill himself, and that is why the police responded, why did they shoot anyone? That is a situation that specifically calls for nobody to be shot.

We had to shoot him to stop him from shooting himself.

[Heavonia]

mfw

Like, seriously. My only words can be 'how do you fuck up this badly?' Like, you've got to actually try in order to accomplish this level of cockery. I can't imagine the amount of shit that would descend from the heavens if this happened where I work.

[Hurdergaryp]

mfw

Like, seriously. My only words can be 'how do you fuck up this badly?' Like, you've got to actually try in order to accomplish this level of cockery. I can't imagine the amount of shit that would descend from the heavens if this happened where I work.

Cop has gun. Cop spots target. Cop shoots. But maybe I'm being too simplistic here, even though it would explain the whole mess.

[Ethel mermania]

mfw

Like, seriously. My only words can be 'how do you fuck up this badly?' Like, you've got to actually try in order to accomplish this level of cockery. I can't imagine the amount of shit that would descend from the heavens if this happened where I work.

Cop has gun. Cop spots target. Cop shoots. But maybe I'm being too simplistic here, even though it would explain the whole mess.

As gallo said eariler the amount of training police get to deal with the mentally ill is woefully inadequate, even in the better police departments. Which is bizarre since, aside from incidnets like this, which when its a white mentally ill kid gets killed, it generates 0 press attention, so many "real criminals", have mental health issues.

[Hurdergaryp]

Cop has gun. Cop spots target. Cop shoots. But maybe I'm being too simplistic here, even though it would explain the whole mess.

As gallo said eariler the amount of training police get to deal with the mentally ill is woefully inadequate, even in the better police departments. Which is bizarre since, aside from incidnets like this, which when its a white mentally ill kid gets killed, it generates 0 press attention, so many "real criminals", have mental health issues.

A few decades ago, the authorities in the US decided to close down most mental institutions. The direct consequence was a dramatic increase in homeless people and violent crime, because those budget-balancing bozos apparently ignored the unwelcome fact that there are quite a few people who actually need to be hospitalized. Seems like the police still hasn't caught up with the times, but that probably also has to do with the decreased quality of police recruits in the USA. The military tends to pick up the more talented people that normally would have been available for the police force since the George W. Bush presidency, after all.

[Ethel mermania]

As gallo said eariler the amount of training police get to deal with the mentally ill is woefully inadequate, even in the better police departments. Which is bizarre since, aside from incidnets like this, which when its a white mentally ill kid gets killed, it generates 0 press attention, so many "real criminals", have mental health issues.

A few decades ago, the authorities in the US decided to close down most mental institutions. The direct consequence was a dramatic increase in homeless people and violent crime, because those budget-balancing bozos apparently ignored the unwelcome fact that there are quite a few people who actually need to be hospitalized. Seems like the police still hasn't caught up with the times, but that probably also has to do with the decreased quality of police recruits in the USA. The military tends to pick up the more talented people that normally would have been available for the police force since the George W. Bush presidency, after all.

No, the institutions were horrible places, the amount of abuse those people took was astounding. There is a need for some institutions, but most mentally ill do much better in a group home enviorment. As big a jack ass Geraldo Rivera may ever become. He is a hero to me for how he exposed what happened in mental institutions in Ny, paricularly a place called willowbrook.

[Hurdergaryp]

A few decades ago, the authorities in the US decided to close down most mental institutions. The direct consequence was a dramatic increase in homeless people and violent crime, because those budget-balancing bozos apparently ignored the unwelcome fact that there are quite a few people who actually need to be hospitalized. Seems like the police still hasn't caught up with the times, but that probably also has to do with the decreased quality of police recruits in the USA. The military tends to pick up the more talented people that normally would have been available for the police force since the George W. Bush presidency, after all.

No, the institutions were horrible places, the amount of abuse those people took was astounding. There is a need for some institutions, but most mentally ill do much better in a group home enviorment. As big a jack ass Geraldo Rivera may ever become. He is a hero to me for how he exposed what happened in mental institutions in Ny, paricularly a place called willowbrook.

Group home environments are indeed a superior alternative for many people in need of help and guidance, but that was not an option originally given to the majority of former patients. They were pretty much thrown into the world, without being ready for the world and without the world being ready for them.