US GENERAL ELECTION MEGA-THREAD II: Clinton vs. Trump

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I have, he's not a white supremacist. I don't like him but lets not make stupid shit up, there's plenty of legitimate stuff to attack him about.

Do not claim or insinuate that I am a liar, or I will repay the favour in kind.

Trump may or may not be a full-blown white supremacist, though he is certainly racist, but he is willing to pander to them and attracts their support, and his victory would further embolden them and establish them as part of the political mainstream.

Do you deny this?

As to "secessionist", while seceding is not the policy of the Republican Party or of Trump (they'd much rather take over and pervert the country than leave it, for the most part), they do have quite a few secessionists and secessionism sympathizers among their ranks. Gov. Perry, I recall, even floated the idea of Texas seceding after Obama's victory in 2008.

The KKK, who's leadership supports Trump, is also a direct descendent of the Confederacy.

I thought they descended from the Scottish-rite Freemasons. Unless my memory is fuzzing.

[Rio Cana]

I actually do find it good of them.

At least, if they're going to lose, let it be recorded that they didn't choose this.

I was kind of hoping for more bombast than he gave us, but I agree. And what happened with Utah? Trump got creamed there, yet he was given all their delegates.

Unless this was a Utah delegate mistake then it seems Utah changed the rules. Someone already mentioned that Washington the Capital seems to have also done the same thing. So this leaves PR. and OH. has the only places that did not sell out.

[The Romulan Republic]

Do not claim or insinuate that I am a liar, or I will repay the favour in kind.

Trump may or may not be a full-blown white supremacist, though he is certainly racist, but he is willing to pander to them and attracts their support, and his victory would further embolden them and establish them as part of the political mainstream.

Do you deny this?

As to "secessionist", while seceding is not the policy of the Republican Party or of Trump (they'd much rather take over and pervert the country than leave it, for the most part), they do have quite a few secessionists and secessionism sympathizers among their ranks. Gov. Perry, I recall, even floated the idea of Texas seceding after Obama's victory in 2008.

The KKK, who's leadership supports Trump, is also a direct descendent of the Confederacy.

I thought they descended from the Scottish-rite Freemasons. Unless my memory is fuzzing.

www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kkk-founded

In Pulaski, Tennessee, a group of Confederate veterans convenes to form a secret society that they christen the “Ku Klux Klan.” The KKK rapidly grew from a secret social fraternity to a paramilitary force bent on reversing the federal government’s progressive Reconstruction Era-activities in the South, especially policies that elevated the rights of the local African American population.

The name of the Ku Klux Klan was derived from the Greek word kyklos, meaning “circle,” and the Scottish-Gaelic word “clan,” which was probably chosen for the sake of alliteration. Under a platform of philosophized white racial superiority, the group employed violence as a means of pushing back Reconstruction and its enfranchisement of African Americans. Former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was the KKK’s first grand wizard; in 1869, he unsuccessfully tried to disband it after he grew critical of the Klan’s excessive violence.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I have, he's not a white supremacist. I don't like him but lets not make stupid shit up, there's plenty of legitimate stuff to attack him about.

Do not claim or insinuate that I am a liar, or I will repay the favour in kind.

Trump may or may not be a full-blown white supremacist, though he is certainly racist, but he is willing to pander to them and attracts their support, and his victory would further embolden them and establish them as part of the political mainstream.

Do you deny this?

As to "secessionist", while seceding is not the policy of the Republican Party or of Trump (they'd much rather take over and pervert the country than leave it, for the most part), they do have quite a few secessionists and secessionism sympathizers among their ranks. Gov. Perry, I recall, even floated the idea of Texas seceding after Obama's victory in 2008.

The KKK, who's leadership supports Trump, is also a direct descendent of the Confederacy.

You can call me a liar all you want, I won't give a shit personally.

I don't deny he panders to them, he panders to literally anybody willing to kiss his ass and support him. I don't even think he's a racist myself, he just says whatever he can to get more support.

I fully support states being able to leave the Union so that doesn't bother me at all.

I've been hearing that a lot but all the polls I've seen barring one still have Trump winning by pretty fair margins (4-12 depending on the poll), seems strange to say it's Democrat-leaning.

Still until we hit mid-August we both know that the polls mean shit.

True true, I dunno I just don't see the state going blue myself.

[Idzequitch]

Some crap about reallocating delegates in Alaska. Assume it's the same in Utah and DC.

[New Jerzylvania]

I've been hearing that a lot but all the polls I've seen barring one still have Trump winning by pretty fair margins (4-12 depending on the poll), seems strange to say it's Democrat-leaning.

Still until we hit mid-August we both know that the polls mean shit.

In 1988, the challenging party emerged from the convention with their candidate's bump lending to a 17 point lead in nationwide polling. That candidate, Dukakis, lost by 8 points in part due to his incompetence and in part due to a savvy media campaign by the GOP. Situation reversed in 2016. Trump = Dukakis

[Reploid Productions]

Cucks ITT lmao

The memo. Read it. Then read the site rules. Learn them. Follow them.

*** Great Germania Reich, warned for flaming/trolling. ***


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Still until we hit mid-August we both know that the polls mean shit.

In 1988, the challenging party emerged from the convention with their candidate's bump lending to a 17 point lead in nationwide polling. That candidate, Dukakis, lost by 8 points in part due to his incompetence and in part due to a savvy media campaign by the GOP. Situation reversed in 2016. Trump = Dukakis

So basically, Johnson can win this thing?

Cool.

[Ngelmish]

The fact that there are other potential candidates who have both more executive experience than she does and more accomplished resumes of actually delivering progressive policy rather than merely advocating for it. Policy should come before politics, substance before symbols. Warren wouldn't be the worst choice Clinton could make, but she's near the bottom of my list and I would regard it as a form of insubstantial pandering towards progressive voters myself.

That their may be others with longer resumes does not make her unqualified.

Do you doubt that she could do the job? If so, why?

Politics is contextual and comparative, so I'd say that her overall lack of a governing resume is disqualifying, although we can quibble over the degree to which it's disqualifying. But if her major selling point is that she can rally more voters around a progressive vision of America and the Democratic party, the fact that she hasn't enacted any of those policies, whereas there are others who have, makes that selling point bunk.

I want my candidate to be accomplished and to have a record of policy achievement and political statesmanship. Are those absolutely necessary qualifications? Of course not. We've had ridiculously unqualified VP's before, and presidents as well for that matter.

So perhaps I stated my objection badly previously. Could she do the job? Sure. But so could Donald Trump. Her resume tells against her inasmuch as it makes her more disqualified than others. Your mileage may vary.

[Washington Resistance Army]

In 1988, the challenging party emerged from the convention with their candidate's bump lending to a 17 point lead in nationwide polling. That candidate, Dukakis, lost by 8 points in part due to his incompetence and in part due to a savvy media campaign by the GOP. Situation reversed in 2016. Trump = Dukakis

So basically, Johnson can win this thing?

Cool.

The Johnson rises.

[Takhshiyt]

In 1988, the challenging party emerged from the convention with their candidate's bump lending to a 17 point lead in nationwide polling. That candidate, Dukakis, lost by 8 points in part due to his incompetence and in part due to a savvy media campaign by the GOP. Situation reversed in 2016. Trump = Dukakis

So basically, Johnson can win this thing?

Cool.

I seriously doubt that.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Not to intrude on anyone else's schtick, or to stretch out a running gag that's gone on for far too long, but this popped into my head almost fully formed, and I need to get it down.

Apologies to Elton John.

Goodbye GOP
Though I never backed you at all
You had the sense to take credit
For communism's fall
Put Nixon far behind you,
While Atwater played his games
And plastered every building
With Ronald Reagan's name

And it seems to me the party died
When you nominated Trump
A garbage fire tycoon,
Yes, a flaming dump.
I would have tried to save you
But I'm still on the left
Which makes it seems so strange to me
I'm feeling so bereft.

Bush's terms were tough,
The toughest lies you had to tell
Washington created a clusterfuck
But you said things were going well
And when Obama won
And the Tea Party was born,
All your leaders brought them in
Those who they once had scorned

Goodbye GOP,
From a left wing man who could still see your appeal
Who saw you as something more than an enemy
But now you've discarded your ideals

[Zurkerx]

So basically, Johnson can win this thing?

Cool.

The Johnson rises.

We'll get a rise I believe. Whether we can sustain it or not will be the next question.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

The Johnson rises.

We'll get a rise I believe. Whether we can sustain it or not will be the next question.

Ironic ain't it? If Johnson doesn't rise, this country is fucked.

[Viadora]

We'll get a rise I believe. Whether we can sustain it or not will be the next question.

Ironic ain't it? If Johnson doesn't rise, this country is fucked.

Fivethirtyeight places Johnson's electoral votes at 0.7, so Johnson can no longer rise. Regarding the US being fucked, I think we will only be mildly fucked if Clinton wins, while a Trump presidency would be a hard, dirty, impromptu kind of fucked.

[New Jerzylvania]

In 1988, the challenging party emerged from the convention with their candidate's bump lending to a 17 point lead in nationwide polling. That candidate, Dukakis, lost by 8 points in part due to his incompetence and in part due to a savvy media campaign by the GOP. Situation reversed in 2016. Trump = Dukakis

So basically, Johnson can win this thing?

Cool.

He could, but chance is 1% now however that wasn't the point. This election is a lot like the 1988 cycle and is more prone to being the template for the 2016 cycle IMO.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Ironic ain't it? If Johnson doesn't rise, this country is fucked.

Fivethirtyeight places Johnson's electoral votes at 0.7, so Johnson can no longer rise. Regarding the US being fucked, I think we will only be mildly fucked if Clinton wins, while a Trump presidency would be a hard, dirty, impromptu kind of fucked.

I wouldn't be so damn worried if I could trust her not to be a goddamn hawk.

That's literally the one thing I can't give way on at all. We can reverse policy and shit all day, but you can't unfuck a war with a handwave.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I keep thinking that sometime last year, in a smoke-filled room, a party boss for the Republicans said "We need a candidate who combines the simple, down-to-earth affability of George W. Bush with the political cunning and intelligence of Dick Cheney", and some poor intern wrote it down in reverse order.

[New Jerzylvania]

Ironic ain't it? If Johnson doesn't rise, this country is fucked.

Fivethirtyeight places Johnson's electoral votes at 0.7, so Johnson can no longer rise. Regarding the US being fucked, I think we will only be mildly fucked if Clinton wins, while a Trump presidency would be a hard, dirty, impromptu kind of fucked.

The CIA could be making contingency plans for such countering of impromptu events as we speak. No further elaboration is forthcoming, so don't ask.

[New Jerzylvania]

I keep thinking that sometime last year, in a smoke-filled room, a party boss for the Republicans said "We need a candidate who combines the simple, down-to-earth affability of George W. Bush with the political cunning and intelligence of Dick Cheney", and some poor intern wrote it down in reverse order.

with crayolas

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I keep thinking that sometime last year, in a smoke-filled room, a party boss for the Republicans said "We need a candidate who combines the simple, down-to-earth affability of George W. Bush with the political cunning and intelligence of Dick Cheney", and some poor intern wrote it down in reverse order.

He's like an evil Bill Clinton.

Or eviler...you get my drift.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So Dana White is speaking at the RNC and he's actually doing really friggin well.

[The United Territories of Providence]

Oh no, this is horrible. Make no mistakes, our democracy is only able to function with a reasonable opposition party. The collapse of this party represents an existential threat to our Republic. We need the GOP, but the GOP did this to itself. The party has moved from an emphasis on small government, free-trade, and constitutional orginalism in regards to crafting laws....to..and you'll forgive me...racism and policies intended to appease a minority of religious white people who are increasingly older. That's not a party, and I'm not laughing but I am happy that the collapse is happening. Because now perhaps, like a Phoenix they will rise from the ashes and return to politics closer to Nixon and Ford as opposed to Reagan and Bush. Because although the ideas I still feel are wrong, they aren't....inexcusably horrible. Sometimes you've got to burn down the forest in order for new growth to begin.

The republicans would gain more support if they used the Ike Presidency as their party platform

Well No. You can't go that far, if you do, then the "very conservatives" in the party won't support the GOP....the party splits into two and that's not good because it also gets you to a one party state. Think 1912. You've got to remember, you can't just go "more liberal" or "more moderate" without consequences. Nixon is as far as you can go and maintain a net positive in supporters...really, even THAT might be too far. You might make it to Dole without alienating way too many people who are already in the party.

[The United Territories of Providence]

Remember when Lee Atwater basically said that everything the Republicans say about taxes and cutting budgets is basically a substitute for "nigger nigger", because white voters know what they really mean and that they're appealing to racism? I miss the subtle dog-whistle. Build a Wall and Ban Muslims and AllLivesMatter feel a little...obvious.

[Corrian]

Of course Benghazi is brought up again.