US GENERAL ELECTION MEGA-THREAD II: Clinton vs. Trump

[Conserative Morality]

Why should I exchange the life of a comrade for that of Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian? These guys don't even pull their own weight in the NATO budget, how can I trust at the end of the day that they have the equipment provided to cover my back if a war occurs and I'm sent to this region that we should have no part of.

Estonia's military budget is 2% of GDP - the recommended amount for NATO members.

I guess the days of the American GI as a liberator and defender of freedom are long over. What business do we have in Europe or Asia? Really, we should just stay out of international affairs altogether because who cares if millions of people die or our economic interests are violated or entire peoples are stripped of their sovereignty? We're busy jacking ourselves off at home, right?

[Eol Sha]

How...detestable.

Why should I exchange the life of a comrade for that of Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian? These guys don't even pull their own weight in the NATO budget, how can I trust at the end of the day that they have the equipment provided to cover my back if a war occurs and I'm sent to this region that we should have no part of.

Actually, Estonia does meet its funding requirements as a NATO member. Although, Lithuania and Latvia are around 1%. And if you're wondering whether the Baltic states have the back of the US, all three provided contingents for the Invasion of Afghanistan as per NATO guidelines. Same with Iraq. All three provided contingents in the aftermath of the invasion.

Now, you can disagree with going into Iraq and Afghanistan, but to say that Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia didn't help is counterfactual.

[USS Monitor]

Hey, Johnson is at least as sane as you can get in the Libertarian department.

Yes, that's why I decided to vote for him.

[Conserative Morality]

Actually, Estonia does meet its funding requirements as a NATO member. Although, Lithuania and Latvia are around 1%. And if you're wondering whether the Baltic states have the back of the US, all three provided contingents for the Invasion of Afghanistan as per NATO guidelines. Same with Iraq. All three provided contingents in the aftermath of the invasion.

Now, you can disagree with going into Iraq and Afghanistan, but to say that Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia didn't help is counterfactual.

Who cares? They're furriners. Apparently his ideal America doesn't give a flying fuck about freedom or democracy.

[USS Monitor]

He also seems to have, from reading his website, an unhealthy fixation with the fact that Israel exists. Nine pages of posts come up when you search "Israel" in his sidebar, and a not-insignificant number of them aren't even on topics where I would ever reasonably expect the subject of Israel to be relevant.

Stein should have picked someone less extreme, not more. Hopefully this minimizes her appeal to Bernie or Busters, but likely not.

It's definitely minimizing her appeal to me, but I was already feeling the Johnson anyway.

[Eol Sha]

Why should I exchange the life of a comrade for that of Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian? These guys don't even pull their own weight in the NATO budget, how can I trust at the end of the day that they have the equipment provided to cover my back if a war occurs and I'm sent to this region that we should have no part of.

Estonia's military budget is 2% of GDP - the recommended amount for NATO members.

I guess the days of the American GI as a liberator and defender of freedom are long over. What business do we have in Europe or Asia? Really, we should just stay out of international affairs altogether because who cares if millions of people die or our economic interests are violated or entire peoples are stripped of their sovereignty? We're busy jacking ourselves off at home, right?

Given that Uxopox, I think, is a member of the armed services, I do think he is making legitimate points and is infinitely closer to dying in conflict in Eastern Europe than (probably) you or I.

[Corrian]

The candidate is the best in the race and the puns are great

The pun is old, shriveled, and useless, and should probably be cut off starting now.

Pretty sure you just made some puns

[Conserative Morality]

Given that Uxopox, I think, is a member of the armed services, I do think he is making legitimate points and is infinitely closer to dying in conflict in Eastern Europe than (probably) you or I..

I have friends in the armed services. Hell, I tried to join the armed services. You know why? Because I believed in an America that uses its power for what is right in the world. What other reason is there to join? Personal reasons of finance? Sure, but that's not some grand principle to stand on the lives of other people for. To protect the country? Since when does the US military need warm bodies for that? We haven't been threatened in decades, and no one looks up to the task or looks like they'll be up to the task anytime soon. If you wanted to protect the country, you should've went into intelligence services of some form or another. You don't join an organization whose purpose is the expression of US force and then complain when the US expresses force.

[Uxupox]

Why should I exchange the life of a comrade for that of Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian? These guys don't even pull their own weight in the NATO budget, how can I trust at the end of the day that they have the equipment provided to cover my back if a war occurs and I'm sent to this region that we should have no part of.

Estonia's military budget is 2% of GDP - the recommended amount for NATO members.

I guess the days of the American GI as a liberator and defender of freedom are long over. What business do we have in Europe or Asia? Really, we should just stay out of international affairs altogether because who cares if millions of people die or our economic interests are violated or entire peoples are stripped of their sovereignty? We're busy jacking ourselves off at home, right?

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian. I'm not gonna allow these men to die to some foreign nation. American GI as a liberator and defender? Should look around, we are not welcomed in some places anymore, nobody praises the United States on the so called "Liberation", you think that kid in Afghanistan that threw a rock at one of my boys was praising him? Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan was a mistake and like the great George Washington long ago we should not be caught in foreign entanglements. It is not our responsibility and we should not be held accountable because they can't defend themselves properly.

[Conserative Morality]

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian.

Then you shame America and the American military.

[Eol Sha]

Why should I exchange the life of a comrade for that of Estonian, Lithuanian or Latvian? These guys don't even pull their own weight in the NATO budget, how can I trust at the end of the day that they have the equipment provided to cover my back if a war occurs and I'm sent to this region that we should have no part of.

Actually, Estonia does meet its funding requirements as a NATO member. Although, Lithuania and Latvia are around 1%. And if you're wondering whether the Baltic states have the back of the US, all three provided contingents for the Invasion of Afghanistan as per NATO guidelines. Same with Iraq. All three provided contingents in the aftermath of the invasion.

Now, you can disagree with going into Iraq and Afghanistan, but to say that Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia didn't help is counterfactual.

Also, Poland has been one of the closest allies the US has ever had and is, more or less, the linchpin for US military strategy in Eastern Europe. It is like Estonia. It contributed more than most NATO members besides the UK and Canada to the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and meets that 2% funding requirement, as well.

[36 Camera Perspective]

Stein should have picked someone less extreme, not more. Hopefully this minimizes her appeal to Bernie or Busters, but likely not.

Well, some of them are about that insane, so. And if you count me, I'm pretty turned off by the Greens now.

Same.

[Uxupox]

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian.

Then you shame America and the American military.

I'm not a spokesman for the american military.

Actually, Estonia does meet its funding requirements as a NATO member. Although, Lithuania and Latvia are around 1%. And if you're wondering whether the Baltic states have the back of the US, all three provided contingents for the Invasion of Afghanistan as per NATO guidelines. Same with Iraq. All three provided contingents in the aftermath of the invasion.

Now, you can disagree with going into Iraq and Afghanistan, but to say that Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia didn't help is counterfactual.

Also, Poland has been one of the closest allies the US has ever had and is, more or less, the linchpin for US military strategy in Eastern Europe. It is like Estonia. It contributed more than most NATO members to the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and meets that 2% funding requirement, as well.

I'd have to agree on some of your points. The Polish will always a great american ally.

[Eol Sha]

Given that Uxopox, I think, is a member of the armed services, I do think he is making legitimate points and is infinitely closer to dying in conflict in Eastern Europe than (probably) you or I..

I have friends in the armed services. Hell, I tried to join the armed services. You know why? Because I believed in an America that uses its power for what is right in the world. What other reason is there to join? Personal reasons of finance? Sure, but that's not some grand principle to stand on the lives of other people for. To protect the country? Since when does the US military need warm bodies for that? We haven't been threatened in decades, and no one looks up to the task or looks like they'll be up to the task anytime soon. If you wanted to protect the country, you should've went into intelligence services of some form or another. You don't join an organization whose purpose is the expression of US force and then complain when the US expresses force.

Also perfectly legitimate ideals to hold. Ones that I personally lean towards more than Uxupox's.

[UED]

Estonia's military budget is 2% of GDP - the recommended amount for NATO members.

I guess the days of the American GI as a liberator and defender of freedom are long over. What business do we have in Europe or Asia? Really, we should just stay out of international affairs altogether because who cares if millions of people die or our economic interests are violated or entire peoples are stripped of their sovereignty? We're busy jacking ourselves off at home, right?

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian. I'm not gonna allow these men to die to some foreign nation. American GI as a liberator and defender? Should look around, we are not welcomed in some places anymore, nobody praises the United States on the so called "Liberation", you think that kid in Afghanistan that threw a rock at one of my boys was praising him? Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan was a mistake and like the great George Washington long ago we should not be caught in foreign entanglements. It is not our responsibility and we should not be held accountable because they can't defend themselves properly.

Asians and Eastern Europeans still view the United States as the champion of human rights and liberty. As a South Korean I assure you the majority of my people still positively view the United Staes. Jesus Christ I know your probably not trying to but you sound so negative and anti-patriotic. America has its flaws and is disliked by a lot of nations but lots of other nations also enjoy American influence in world politics. The Japanese, Taiwanese and South Koreans see America as the bulwark that will help them defend their freedom against possible Communist Chinese aggression. The Eastern Europeans (Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) also view America as a positive force to counter Russian aggression.

Also with all due respect Afghanistan was not a mistake, Iraq was though.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm not a spokesman for the american military.

Are you a member of the US military? Like, say, the Army?

[Eol Sha]

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian. I'm not gonna allow these men to die to some foreign nation. American GI as a liberator and defender? Should look around, we are not welcomed in some places anymore, nobody praises the United States on the so called "Liberation", you think that kid in Afghanistan that threw a rock at one of my boys was praising him? Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan was a mistake and like the great George Washington long ago we should not be caught in foreign entanglements. It is not our responsibility and we should not be held accountable because they can't defend themselves properly.

Asians and Eastern Europeans still view the United States as the champion of human rights and liberty. As a South Korean I assure you the majority of my people still positively view the United Staes. Jesus Christ I know your probably not trying to but you sound so negative and anti-patriotic. America has its flaws and is disliked by a lot of nations but lots of other nations also enjoy American influence in world politics. The Japanese, Taiwanese and South Koreans see America as the bulwark that will help them defend their freedom against possible Communist Chinese aggression. The Eastern Europeans (Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) also view America as a positive force to counter Russian aggression.

Also with all due respect Afghanistan was not a mistake, Iraq was though.

To be fair, Uxupox excluded withdrawal from East Asia.

[Uxupox]

Given that Uxopox, I think, is a member of the armed services, I do think he is making legitimate points and is infinitely closer to dying in conflict in Eastern Europe than (probably) you or I..

I have friends in the armed services. Hell, I tried to join the armed services. You know why? Because I believed in an America that uses its power for what is right in the world. What other reason is there to join? Personal reasons of finance? Sure, but that's not some grand principle to stand on the lives of other people for. To protect the country? Since when does the US military need warm bodies for that? We haven't been threatened in decades, and no one looks up to the task or looks like they'll be up to the task anytime soon. If you wanted to protect the country, you should've went into intelligence services of some form or another. You don't join an organization whose purpose is the expression of US force and then complain when the US expresses force.

I have no idea if somebody actually joined to protect another country. The "free people of Earth?" maybe. To protect the country? The unit I first arrived in had a motto called "Love of country". A lot people joined in to serve to protect their comrades and the country and it's citizens.

I'm not a spokesman for the american military.

Are you a member of the US military? Like, say, the Army?

This is true yes.

[Corrian]

My brother just posted this joke

[UED]

Asians and Eastern Europeans still view the United States as the champion of human rights and liberty. As a South Korean I assure you the majority of my people still positively view the United Staes. Jesus Christ I know your probably not trying to but you sound so negative and anti-patriotic. America has its flaws and is disliked by a lot of nations but lots of other nations also enjoy American influence in world politics. The Japanese, Taiwanese and South Koreans see America as the bulwark that will help them defend their freedom against possible Communist Chinese aggression. The Eastern Europeans (Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) also view America as a positive force to counter Russian aggression.

Also with all due respect Afghanistan was not a mistake, Iraq was though.

To be fair, Uxupox excluded withdrawal from East Asia.

You are correct on that. That said I do understand his beliefs regarding Western Europe''s perception of America's military.

[Conserative Morality]

I have no idea if somebody actually joined to protect another country. The "free people of Earth?" maybe. To protect the country? The unit I first arrived in had a motto called "Love of country". A lot people joined in to serve to protect their comrades and the country and it's citizens.

Love of country is love of its values. Values you seem to disdain. And again, the US military is hardly in need of help in protecting the US. We're not threatened. But our allies are. Innocent people are.

[Conserative Morality]

This is true yes.

Do you remember the Soldier's Creed?

[Geilinor]

Estonia's military budget is 2% of GDP - the recommended amount for NATO members.

I guess the days of the American GI as a liberator and defender of freedom are long over. What business do we have in Europe or Asia? Really, we should just stay out of international affairs altogether because who cares if millions of people die or our economic interests are violated or entire peoples are stripped of their sovereignty? We're busy jacking ourselves off at home, right?

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian.

No platoon anywhere is worth the lives of 1.3 million people.

[Uxupox]

I have no idea if somebody actually joined to protect another country. The "free people of Earth?" maybe. To protect the country? The unit I first arrived in had a motto called "Love of country". A lot people joined in to serve to protect their comrades and the country and it's citizens.

Love of country is love of its values. Values you seem to disdain. And again, the US military is hardly in need of help in protecting the US. We're not threatened. But our allies are. Innocent people are.

Which values do you mean? You mean sacrificing the lives of my own for some other country?

Those innocent people already have defenders. Their own countries defenders.

This is true yes.

Do you remember the Soldier's Creed?

First thing that is taught to us.

My platoon is worth life of every Estonian.

No platoon anywhere is worth the lives of 1.2 million people.

When your platoon belongs to you then yes it does.

[Eol Sha]

To be fair, Uxupox excluded withdrawal from East Asia.

You are correct on that. That said I do understand his beliefs regarding Western Europe''s perception of America's military.

Yeah. The Euros are super frustrating. Case in point: Hungary. A member of NATO who's government is trying to cozy up with the Russians.