A wall needs to be built but not by Mexico

[Thermodolia]

So we want to add an expensive wall to the things we spend money on, and then add that wall to the infrastructure we are currently failing to maintain...sounds like a great idea....

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

Why don't we finally finish that fence we started a couple years ago? Also the folks who live on and near the border don't really want a wall or fence on their property.

[-Suid-Afrika-]

I want a DMZ just expanded

I'd like to win the Texas Lotto tomorrow too, but that's not possible, now is it?

it is if you use the right numbers

[Thermodolia]

Well, Congress only approved 1.2 billion, and it covered 613 miles of the envisioned 700 miles of fencing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

The main reason it was never finished was because the cost of the wall was far more than the entire Border Patrol's annual budget (to finish the entire project, the way it was detailed on the bill, it'd have taken 4.1 billion dollars). This is just 700 miles, mind. Double fencing, and the double fencing was of good quality.

1.2 billion dollars is nothing compared to the total US budget. The US spends 10.5 billion dollars a day.

And we still can't do shit.

[Jumalariik]

Why not make laws making the citizenship of anchor babies null? (Im uneducated on the subject but it would seem sensible)

Also, the cost of finding the illegals could be raised by taxing businesses found hiring them. Money is spent on paying illegal immigrants that could be taken by the state to find and deport illegals.

Because birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. You would need an amendment to change it. I believe businesses are already fined if they hire illegal immigrants. And actually, I believe that illegal immigrants actually help the economy, if I recall properly.

Well what's wrong with amending the constitution? Birth-right citizenship is idiotic anyway.

[Neutraligon]

Because it'd be a violation of the 14th amendment.

and a firearms ban is in violation of the 2nd

Depends on what is meant, a wholesale ban on all firearms, yes it is.

[Neutraligon]

Because birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. You would need an amendment to change it. I believe businesses are already fined if they hire illegal immigrants. And actually, I believe that illegal immigrants actually help the economy, if I recall properly.

Well what's wrong with amending the constitution? Birth-right citizenship is idiotic anyway.

Nothing wrong with attempting to amend (I myself am unsure about birthright citizenship), just that it would be incredibly hard to actually do.

[-Suid-Afrika-]

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

Why don't we finally finish that fence we started a couple years ago? Also the folks who live on and near the border don't really want a wall or fence on their property.

Because Bush was busy screwing around in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of defending the border

[Thermodolia]

Because birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. You would need an amendment to change it. I believe businesses are already fined if they hire illegal immigrants. And actually, I believe that illegal immigrants actually help the economy, if I recall properly.

Well what's wrong with amending the constitution? Birth-right citizenship is idiotic anyway.

Ok so that basically means that when you turn 18 you'd have to become a US citizen in order to vote.

[Novus America]

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

I mean, if it is a feasible plan I am all for it.

This whole "WE CAN DO IT! WE CAN DO IT!" doesn't convince me. You've made, so far, the most convincing argument for a border fence, given what you're suggesting is basically what Israel has, just expanded.

Yes, I am suggesting something very similar to what Israel has until such time as it is no longer needed. An actual wall the entire length is not at all feasible. But if Israel can build and maintain such a fence 1/4th the size, and we have an GDP and population much larger than 4 times theirs, it clearly would be very feasible.

[Goldenson]

Mexico will PAY for the wall, not build it.

[Thermodolia]

I'd like to win the Texas Lotto tomorrow too, but that's not possible, now is it?

it is if you use the right numbers

It's a 1 in a million chance that it will happen.

[Flaskjinia]

Ok so that basically means that when you turn 18 you'd have to become a US citizen in order to vote.

I don't see a problem with this

[Neutraligon]

Well what's wrong with amending the constitution? Birth-right citizenship is idiotic anyway.

Ok so that basically means that when you turn 18 you'd have to become a US citizen in order to vote.

I would assume that anyone who is born of 1 or more US citizens would automatically be citizens, as would those born to those with green cards.

[Thermodolia]

Mexico will PAY for the wall, not build it.

Mexico said "fuck that"

[Novus America]

1.2 billion dollars is nothing compared to the total US budget. The US spends 10.5 billion dollars a day.

And we still can't do shit.

Well yes, but that is due to mismanagement, not a lack of funds.

[Flaskjinia]

Mexico will PAY for the wall, not build it.

This guy gets it.

[The Texan Union]

it is if you use the right numbers

It's a 1 in a million chance that it will happen.

But someone does win. It's not impossible.

[Jumalariik]

Well what's wrong with amending the constitution? Birth-right citizenship is idiotic anyway.

Ok so that basically means that when you turn 18 you'd have to become a US citizen in order to vote.

No. There are countless possible citizenship laws besides "muh derp you were born here here's a card derp derp" Why not say you have to be the child of two parents who have legally inhabited the US for 5 years and at least one parent needing to be a citizen? If you are born outside of the US, the two parents would still need to have lived in the US legally for 5 years and still one parent would need to be a citizen. Simple enough to me.

[Thermodolia]

Ok so that basically means that when you turn 18 you'd have to become a US citizen in order to vote.

I would assume that anyone who is born of 1 or more US citizens would automatically be citizens, as would those born to those with green cards.

It would still be a very messy situation.

[-Suid-Afrika-]

if America adopts a strict isolationist foreign policy dissolves NATO and pulls out of NAFTA and ends borrowing from China and allows immigrants from countries east Asia and India to fill jobs as engineers and other necessary roles a border like the one I propose can be achieved.

[Thermodolia]

And we still can't do shit.

Well yes, but that is due to mismanagement, not a lack of funds.

I know that. I'm not saying it's not financially feasible, I'm saying that the government is too stupid to construct such a project let alone maintain it.

[Thermodolia]

Mexico will PAY for the wall, not build it.

This guy gets it.

The Mexican government said fuck no

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Well, Congress only approved 1.2 billion, and it covered 613 miles of the envisioned 700 miles of fencing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

The main reason it was never finished was because the cost of the wall was far more than the entire Border Patrol's annual budget (to finish the entire project, the way it was detailed on the bill, it'd have taken 4.1 billion dollars). This is just 700 miles, mind. Double fencing, and the double fencing was of good quality.

1.2 billion dollars is nothing compared to the total US budget. The US spends 10.5 billion dollars a day.

Right now we're spending 13.56 billion on border patrol per year, with over 62,000 employees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Cust ... Protection

Also, those would be 11.3 billion dollars on 2006 dollars. To finish Bush's wall at the border would cost us, right now, about 4 billion dollars, just the Bush plan of 700 miles.

Using Bush's plans to expand it over the border, thus:

5.04 (today's cost of 2006 wall as estimated, accounting for inflation (1USD-2006=1.2USD-2016))*2.857 (times which the wall proposed by Bush would be longer by) = 14.4 billion dollars. We should keep in mind this is just setup under Bush. Maintenance is the hard part to actually calculate.

[Thermodolia]

if America adopts a strict isolationist foreign policy dissolves NATO and pulls out of NAFTA and ends borrowing from China and allows immigrants from countries east Asia and India to fill jobs as engineers and other necessary roles a border like the one I propose can be achieved.

You do realize that what you are proposing would kill the US financially and bankrupt us?

[Jumalariik]

Further, on the topic of general immigration, why not have a system where you can only move here easily if you work in education for jobs where we have a shortage of workers? For example coding teachers. We shouldn't import new workers in high paying jobs. Instead, one would take all those who can teach a needed trade, let them work in the US temporarily, and make them donate part of their time to educating impoverished people to learn the trade.