A wall needs to be built but not by Mexico

[-Suid-Afrika-]

it's not like that

So what's your plan then? To never try to change? You still have quite a way to go if you're not willing to meet a Mexican.

if you knew me you'd know it wouldn't help

[Socialist Nordia]

I feel there is, overall, a lack of understanding in this thread regarding Trump's approach to having the wall payed for by Mexico. It is more plausible that he can get Mexico to pay for the wall than you think. I'm not necessarily taking a side here, but I think it is important to understand how Trump would attempt to get Mexico to pay for a prospective 5,500 mile wall (although natural figures take away from this figure.)

There is an overblown issue of money transfers from the United States to Mexico being completely void tax and lacking regulation. This has allowed an estimated loss of 120 billion dollars ($17 billion a year) that we know of, drained from the US economy by illegal immigrants. Trump will use this as leverage to initiate a trade war with Mexico if his demands are not met. Trump also claims that Mexico is engaging in "unfair subsidy behavior that has eliminated in the loss of thousands of U.S. jobs."

More extreme measures would likely follow if tariffs and quota restrictions prove ineffective. These measures would include: Cancelling visas, Increasing visa fees to pay for the wall, etc.

Trump feels that Mexico should pay for the wall, in short, because its people have exploited the weak US-Mexico boarder, and its government has openly promoted this exploitation.

First of, please source that the money being sent to Mexico is being sent by illegal immigrants. Second please source the amount that is being lost. Third please tell my why it would be legal to take that money being sent, and how it would be taken. Next Trump bases that claim on what (trump is a known liar so I do not trust anything he claims).

Visa cancellations and fee increases would make the matter worse, not better.

Not to mention, blackmail isn't exactly a moral way to get what we want.

[Western Dakota]

Honestly, if you truly want to stop being biased the best way would be to go out and meet some Mexicans and see that they're good people too.

it's not like that

In that case, would you mind elaborating on what it actually is like?

[The Texan Union]

One you are apparently failing considering the things you have said in this thread.

I know it took me a while to admit to myself I'm a racist but I live with it concealing it in real life

I have reached a point beyond confusion.

Here, watch this and then come back to the thread:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI

[Neutraligon]

Yet we still can't provide for our Vets or fix our crumbling infrastructure.

Well we spend a lot of money on vets. We just boosted VA spending to address the problem. And the VA hired more lawyers an administrators, NOT doctors or nurses. We have plenty of money. We just suck at properly spending it.

We have the money to do a lot of things. We just spend it poorly.

So we want to add an expensive wall to the things we spend money on, and then add that wall to the infrastructure we are currently failing to maintain...sounds like a great idea....

[-Suid-Afrika-]

it's not like that

In that case, would you mind elaborating on what it actually is like?

not openly

[Neutraligon]

it's not like that

In that case, would you mind elaborating on what it actually is like?

We have asked, although since the reason seems to be personal, it would mean the reason is not a good one. They admit they have a major problem when it comes to Mexicans, and yet seem unwilling to try and fix the issue within themselves, as shown by the lengths they will go through to just prevent them from coming into the US.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I've already said that our fence is 2,000 miles. No other border security project is even comparable. So unless you have an idea of how we're going to be building a 2,000 mile fence in our territory, along with the materials, don't waste my time.

Mind getting the numbers for the one planned by Bush? just the cost of constructing it. Separately it would be interesting to see the cost of manning it, and the cost of maintenance but I am more interested in the Bush one.

Well, Congress only approved 1.2 billion, and it covered 613 miles of the envisioned 700 miles of fencing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

The main reason it was never finished was because the cost of the wall was far more than the entire Border Patrol's annual budget (to finish the entire project, the way it was detailed on the bill, it'd have taken 4.1 billion dollars). This is just 700 miles, mind. Double fencing, and the double fencing was of good quality.

[Flaskjinia]

First of, please source that the money being sent to Mexico is being sent by illegal immigrants. Second please source the amount that is being lost. Third please tell my why it would be legal to take that money being sent, and how it would be taken. Next Trump bases that claim on what (trump is a known liar so I do not trust anything he claims).

Visa cancellations and fee increases would make the matter worse, not better.

I have derived all of my figures from the World Bank website.

I understand that Visa cancellations and fee increases would make the matter worse, I never said otherwise.

[Novus America]

Well we spend a lot of money on vets. We just boosted VA spending to address the problem. And the VA hired more lawyers an administrators, NOT doctors or nurses. We have plenty of money. We just suck at properly spending it.

We have the money to do a lot of things. We just spend it poorly.

So we want to add an expensive wall to the things we spend money on, and then add that wall to the infrastructure we are currently failing to maintain...sounds like a great idea....

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

[Thermodolia]

So what's your plan then? To never try to change? You still have quite a way to go if you're not willing to meet a Mexican.

if you knew me you'd know it wouldn't help

Well maybe if you shared your reason for hating Mexicans, we could help you with that.

[Neutraligon]

First of, please source that the money being sent to Mexico is being sent by illegal immigrants. Second please source the amount that is being lost. Third please tell my why it would be legal to take that money being sent, and how it would be taken. Next Trump bases that claim on what (trump is a known liar so I do not trust anything he claims).

Visa cancellations and fee increases would make the matter worse, not better.

I have derived all of my figures from the World Bank website.

I understand that Visa cancellations and fee increases would make the matter worse, I never said otherwise.

Mind linking it? I would be interested to see it. I just wonder at the legality of what Trump proposes.

[Jumalariik]

Napa valley is fertile land we don't need Mexico or globalization

Different states have tried to not have illegals working the farms. No one wanted the jobs. Also, even if we did get American's working for those jobs, the price would still increase because Americans would insist on being paid more then what immigrants are being paid. Either way, the price of food skyrockets.

Probably right. Sad.

I think the idea of a wall is not bad, though we already have lots of illegal immigrants and immigrants who should not be legal. (anchor baby type situations) We need to not only prevent more illegal and unjust immigration, but also to remove immigrants who are either here illegally or unfairly.

Whether you like it or not anchor babies are US citizens; you can't just deport them. Oh and of course, there is the cost of finding all those illegals.

Why not make laws making the citizenship of anchor babies null? (Im uneducated on the subject but it would seem sensible)

Also, the cost of finding the illegals could be raised by taxing businesses found hiring them. Money is spent on paying illegal immigrants that could be taken by the state to find and deport illegals.

[Novus America]

In that case, would you mind elaborating on what it actually is like?

not openly

Your personal issues are not something we should basis personal policy on.

[-Suid-Afrika-]

if you knew me you'd know it wouldn't help

Well maybe if you shared your reason for hating Mexicans, we could help you with that.

I can't

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So we want to add an expensive wall to the things we spend money on, and then add that wall to the infrastructure we are currently failing to maintain...sounds like a great idea....

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

I mean, if it is a feasible plan I am all for it.

This whole "WE CAN DO IT! WE CAN DO IT!" doesn't convince me. You've made, so far, the most convincing argument for a border fence, given what you're suggesting is basically what Israel has, just expanded.

[Neutraligon]

Different states have tried to not have illegals working the farms. No one wanted the jobs. Also, even if we did get American's working for those jobs, the price would still increase because Americans would insist on being paid more then what immigrants are being paid. Either way, the price of food skyrockets.

Whether you like it or not anchor babies are US citizens; you can't just deport them. Oh and of course, there is the cost of finding all those illegals.

Why not make laws making the citizenship of anchor babies null? (Im uneducated on the subject but it would seem sensible)

Also, the cost of finding the illegals could be raised by taxing businesses found hiring them. Money is spent on paying illegal immigrants that could be taken by the state to find and deport illegals.

Because birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. You would need an amendment to change it. I believe businesses are already fined if they hire illegal immigrants. And actually, I believe that illegal immigrants actually help the economy, if I recall properly.

[Flaskjinia]

Not to mention, blackmail isn't exactly a moral way to get what we want.

The Mexican government has been rather morally ambiguous during this entire affair.

[Thermodolia]

Yet we still can't provide for our Vets or fix our crumbling infrastructure.

Well we spend a lot of money on vets. We just boosted VA spending to address the problem. And the VA hired more lawyers an administrators, NOT doctors or nurses. We have plenty of money. We just suck at properly spending it.

We have the money to do a lot of things. We just spend it poorly.

Exactly my point. We still can't complete Bush Jr's border fence.

[-Suid-Afrika-]

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

I mean, if it is a feasible plan I am all for it.

This whole "WE CAN DO IT! WE CAN DO IT!" doesn't convince me. You've made, so far, the most convincing argument for a border fence, given what you're suggesting is basically what Israel has, just expanded.

I want a DMZ just expanded

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Why not make laws making the citizenship of anchor babies null? (Im uneducated on the subject but it would seem sensible)

Because it'd be a violation of the 14th amendment.

[Neutraligon]

Not a wall. A wall is stupid in most places. Just a fence in most places, like Israel. Yes we need to cut the bureaucratic waste in the VA but that is another issue entirely.

I have nothing against Mexico, or Mexicans. But we do need to secure the border better than we do now.

I mean, if it is a feasible plan I am all for it.

This whole "WE CAN DO IT! WE CAN DO IT!" doesn't convince me. You've made, so far, the most convincing argument for a border fence, given what you're suggesting is basically what Israel has, just expanded.

It's just that the feasibility seems so iffy for that length of fencing and staffing.

[Novus America]

Mind getting the numbers for the one planned by Bush? just the cost of constructing it. Separately it would be interesting to see the cost of manning it, and the cost of maintenance but I am more interested in the Bush one.

Well, Congress only approved 1.2 billion, and it covered 613 miles of the envisioned 700 miles of fencing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

The main reason it was never finished was because the cost of the wall was far more than the entire Border Patrol's annual budget (to finish the entire project, the way it was detailed on the bill, it'd have taken 4.1 billion dollars). This is just 700 miles, mind. Double fencing, and the double fencing was of good quality.

1.2 billion dollars is nothing compared to the total US budget. The US spends 10.5 billion dollars a day.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I mean, if it is a feasible plan I am all for it.

This whole "WE CAN DO IT! WE CAN DO IT!" doesn't convince me. You've made, so far, the most convincing argument for a border fence, given what you're suggesting is basically what Israel has, just expanded.

I want a DMZ just expanded

I'd like to win the Texas Lotto tomorrow too, but that's not possible, now is it?

[-Suid-Afrika-]

Why not make laws making the citizenship of anchor babies null? (Im uneducated on the subject but it would seem sensible)

Because it'd be a violation of the 14th amendment.

and a firearms ban is in violation of the 2nd