NationStates

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:03 pm**

The United Remnants of America wrote:Child abuse? Nah. In order for it to be child abuse, there has to be intent to hurt the children. Since the parents thing they're helping, it legally can't be abuse.

Child endangerment and negligence, on the other hand... Those just need shitty parents to stick.

I'm almost tempted to go through conversion therapy just to see what it's like first-hand.

The intent is to hurt, but the perceived outcome is that the hurting will help "correct" them.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:05 pm**

The United Remnants of America wrote:Child abuse? Nah. In order for it to be child abuse, there has to be intent to hurt the children. Since the parents thing they're helping, it legally can't be abuse.

Child endangerment and negligence, on the other hand... Those just need shitty parents to stick.

I'm almost tempted to go through conversion therapy just to see what it's like first-hand.

Child endangerment and negligence ARE child abuse.

Personally, if I could, I'd totally volunteer to go into one of those camps, and smuggle the victims out.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:07 pm**

The United Remnants of America wrote:Child abuse? Nah. In order for it to be child abuse, there has to be intent to hurt the children. Since the parents thing they're helping, it legally can't be abuse.

Child endangerment and negligence, on the other hand... Those just need shitty parents to stick.

I'm almost tempted to go through conversion therapy just to see what it's like first-hand.

Gay conversion therapy survivor speaks about experience

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:07 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
If Allah is not for LGBT equal rights, then not even Allah is worth worshipping, because Allah would be evil.

yet it was the people of Sodom who were with Shaytan

Based on what exactly? Someone's 3000-year old fantasy?

Besides that, the "Shaytan" figure is the most moral of the entire Abrahamic mythology. How many did God/Jahweh/Allah kill? And how many did the opponent kill?
Taken into account the amount of people which were living on Earth so long ago, relatively, the God/Jahweh/Allah character killed more than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Genghis Khan together. Not someone I'd like to base my moral compass upon.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:11 pm**

Grenartia wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:Child abuse? Nah. In order for it to be child abuse, there has to be intent to hurt the children. Since the parents thing they're helping, it legally can't be abuse.

Child endangerment and negligence, on the other hand... Those just need shitty parents to stick.

I'm almost tempted to go through conversion therapy just to see what it's like first-hand.

Child endangerment and negligence ARE child abuse.

Personally, if I could, I'd totally volunteer to go into one of those camps, and smuggle the victims out.

That sounds like an action movie waiting to happen.

Hell, someone could make it sound like a war film.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:12 pm**

Gauthier wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Child endangerment and negligence ARE child abuse.

Personally, if I could, I'd totally volunteer to go into one of those camps, and smuggle the victims out.

That sounds like an action movie waiting to happen.

Hell, someone could make it sound like a war film.

I don't think those places much in the way of well-armed security to make it a war movie, or even an action film. Suspense, definitely.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:15 pm**

Grenartia wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
That sounds like an action movie waiting to happen.

Hell, someone could make it sound like a war film.

I don't think those places much in the way of well-armed security to make it a war movie, or even an action film. Suspense, definitely.

Stealth.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:16 pm**

Gauthier wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I don't think those places much in the way of well-armed security to make it a war movie, or even an action film. Suspense, definitely.

Stealth.

That's a video game genre.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:18 pm**

Grenartia wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
Stealth.

That's a video game genre.

Admit it, you'd love to take a blackjack to the skull of one of those gay conversion preachers.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:02 pm**

To those who responded to my claim earlier - there is proof that sexual orientation and gender identity are related to brain structure, although it has yet to be discovered what in brain structure causes it. Since the brain develops [or finishes developing] after the genitals do in terms of fetal development in most cases, it is believed that hormones and other various factors going on in the womb cause the brain to develop in a certain path, which can affect [effect?] the centers responsible for sexual orientation and gender identity.

We have yet to discover the centers of the brain responsible for it, I believe, but we know it has something to do with hormones and brain structure. In other words, it is a random genetic mutation that can sometimes occur. That's why two straight conservative parents can sometimes end up with gay kids just as easily as two straight liberal parents. If it were psychological or had to do with upbringing, there'd be some form of difference that would be highly noticeable.

This is why I think conversion therapy ought to be banned. It's cruel to punish and force kids to be something they weren't born as and to blame them for whatever genetic or hormonal factors went into making them the way they are.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:37 pm**

Central European Commonwealth wrote:
Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:yet it was the people of Sodom who were with Shaytan

Based on what exactly? Someone's 3000-year old fantasy?

Besides that, the "Shaytan" figure is the most moral of the entire Abrahamic mythology. How many did God/Jahweh/Allah kill? And how many did the opponent kill?
Taken into account the amount of people which were living on Earth so long ago, relatively, the God/Jahweh/Allah character killed more than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Genghis Khan together. Not someone I'd like to base my moral compass upon.

Stalin and the others were worshippers of Shaytan

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:40 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Central European Commonwealth wrote:
Based on what exactly? Someone's 3000-year old fantasy?

Besides that, the "Shaytan" figure is the most moral of the entire Abrahamic mythology. How many did God/Jahweh/Allah kill? And how many did the opponent kill?
Taken into account the amount of people which were living on Earth so long ago, relatively, the God/Jahweh/Allah character killed more than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Genghis Khan together. Not someone I'd like to base my moral compass upon.

Stalin and the others were worshippers of Shaytan

So it's ok for Allah and his followers to murder innocents, and it's only evil if you don't do it in his name?

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:42 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Central European Commonwealth wrote:
Based on what exactly? Someone's 3000-year old fantasy?

Besides that, the "Shaytan" figure is the most moral of the entire Abrahamic mythology. How many did God/Jahweh/Allah kill? And how many did the opponent kill?
Taken into account the amount of people which were living on Earth so long ago, relatively, the God/Jahweh/Allah character killed more than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Genghis Khan together. Not someone I'd like to base my moral compass upon.

Stalin and the others were worshippers of Shaytan

I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:42 pm**

Llamalandia wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
It depends on what you mean "reproductively advantageous".

Not all mutations are, or should be, for the sole purpose of having more offspring. Many times, said mutations shape the reproductive pool of a population.

Well I'm largely sticking close to a definition of natural selection, so essentially those genes which help an individual survive and reproduce naturally are advantageous whereas those that don't aren't.

There is some evidence that the gene/genes that have some association with homosexuality also aid in female fertility.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:48 pm**

The V O I D wrote:
Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:Stalin and the others were worshippers of Shaytan

I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

lack of worship is a victory for Satan therefore he helped Satan making him a worshipper

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:51 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

lack of worship is a victory for Satan therefore he helped Satan making him a worshipper

This is relevant to the thread how?

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:52 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

lack of worship is a victory for Satan therefore he helped Satan making him a worshipper

Stalin never worshipped anyone. Only he was worshipped.
Anyway, genghis has faith, just not in your God. Was he also a worshipper of Satan.

Just a side note, you're not very persuasive. Your arguments don't appeal to anyone outside of the Islamist fringe.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:53 pm**

The V O I D wrote:To those who responded to my claim earlier - there is proof that sexual orientation and gender identity are related to brain structure, although it has yet to be discovered what in brain structure causes it. Since the brain develops [or finishes developing] after the genitals do in terms of fetal development in most cases, it is believed that hormones and other various factors going on in the womb cause the brain to develop in a certain path, which can affect [effect?] the centers responsible for sexual orientation and gender identity.

We have yet to discover the centers of the brain responsible for it, I believe, but we know it has something to do with hormones and brain structure. In other words, it is a random genetic mutation that can sometimes occur. That's why two straight conservative parents can sometimes end up with gay kids just as easily as two straight liberal parents. If it were psychological or had to do with upbringing, there'd be some form of difference that would be highly noticeable.

This is why I think conversion therapy ought to be banned. It's cruel to punish and force kids to be something they weren't born as and to blame them for whatever genetic or hormonal factors went into making them the way they are.

As I have mentioned before, there seems to be a mix of reasons. Genetics, epigenetics, environment in the womb, environment when growing up (and no I do not mean how your parent/school teaches you), etc.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:54 pm**

Neutraligon wrote:
The V O I D wrote:To those who responded to my claim earlier - there is proof that sexual orientation and gender identity are related to brain structure, although it has yet to be discovered what in brain structure causes it. Since the brain develops [or finishes developing] after the genitals do in terms of fetal development in most cases, it is believed that hormones and other various factors going on in the womb cause the brain to develop in a certain path, which can affect [effect?] the centers responsible for sexual orientation and gender identity.

We have yet to discover the centers of the brain responsible for it, I believe, but we know it has something to do with hormones and brain structure. In other words, it is a random genetic mutation that can sometimes occur. That's why two straight conservative parents can sometimes end up with gay kids just as easily as two straight liberal parents. If it were psychological or had to do with upbringing, there'd be some form of difference that would be highly noticeable.

This is why I think conversion therapy ought to be banned. It's cruel to punish and force kids to be something they weren't born as and to blame them for whatever genetic or hormonal factors went into making them the way they are.

As I have mentioned before, there seems to be a mix of reasons. Genetics, epigenetics, environment in the womb, environment when growing up (and no I do not mean how your parent/school teaches you), etc.

Yeah, but I think one of the primary catalysts are genetics and hormones, as those effect how you develop as a fetus.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:02 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Godular wrote:
Which is all fine in my book.

It doesn't impose on you, so why should you care?

Because of the command of Allah Aza wa Jal.

And yet God is supposed to be unknowable, so claiming knowledge of what they like or dislike strikes me as the height of pride. Isn't that a sin?

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
There are no dieties. Now excuse me while I enjoy not giving two craps about anything imaginary men in the sky think becuase they are just that - imaginary.

the concept Allah isn't a 'man' just an FYI

Indeed... that would imply there's any substance at all to it.

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
If Allah is not for LGBT equal rights, then not even Allah is worth worshipping, because Allah would be evil.

yet it was the people of Sodom who were with Shaytan

Which has jack, shit, and everything in between to do with LGBT behavior and substantially more to do with shitty hospitality.

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

lack of worship is a victory for Satan therefore he helped Satan making him a worshipper

And since Satan only operates according to God's will, technically that makes them a God Worshipper!

Or it just doesn't matter who worships who and you could just mind your own damn business.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:10 pm**

I am just wondering what happened to the doctor's oath to do no harm, because this "therapy" obviously causes pain for a result that doesn't last or is needed for their health.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:17 pm**

Greater Polaris wrote:I am just wondering what happened to the doctor's oath to do no harm, because this "therapy" obviously causes pain for a result that doesn't last or is needed for their health.

Usually these doctors are "independent practice", and yeah Conversion Therapy, or trying to change or "fix" a non-hetero-normative sexuality, or a transgender gender identity, is considered medically unethical.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:46 pm**

Gauthier wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
That's a video game genre.

Admit it, you'd love to take a blackjack to the skull of one of those gay conversion preachers.

I don't know what a blackjack is.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:48 pm**

Ghuraba Al-Khorusani wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
I can't even laugh at how wrong this is.

lack of worship is a victory for Satan therefore he helped Satan making him a worshipper

By that logic, you're a worshipper of Satan, because nothing you've said makes me want to worship Allah. Thus, you've helped Satan.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:49 pm**

Grenartia wrote:
Gauthier wrote:
Admit it, you'd love to take a blackjack to the skull of one of those gay conversion preachers.

I don't know what a blackjack is.

Its a short leather strap with a weight in it. Used to be used by police officers as a more compact, though shorter reach, baton, but they've gone the way of the dinosaur in that regard. Now they are pretty much just used by street thugs and people who what a cheap self-defense tool.

NationStates

Is "Conversion Therapy" Child Abuse?