Is "Conversion Therapy" Child Abuse?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I mean, you could just trust the LGB community and their personal accounts. But, whatever.

That's basically the "Because I say so!" argument, and it isn't convincing.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/31/modern-science-says-homosexuality-not-choice/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blo ... al-with-it

And, it often causes mental damage and is very harmful.

You need to read your sources. The Guardian article specifically stated only one of four studies even found any markers at all, and still no "gay gene".

The whole 'gay gene' argument is patently idiotic. Whether or not there is a 'gay gene' or not is irrelevent to whether homosexuality is a choice or not. Plenty of aspects of peoples personalities, characters, and general being are not based purely on genetics.

Also, I'd love to ask you, since you seem so hell bent on demonizing homosexuals as degenerates who choose to have dirty, non-heteronormative sex (which I have no idea what even is dirty about it but whatever) - when did you "choose" to be straight? I imagine you didn't have a moment where you woke up one day and was like "Welp. Im straight!"

[Oil exporting People]

http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html

Again, read your sources before trying to debate:

No studies have found specific "gay genes" that reliably make someone gay.

Of course they haven't found the specific gene yet,

After 25 years of looking, they should be making at least some progress, instead of 75% of their studies turning up nothing at all by their own admission.

if it is a gene.

If there is no gene, than being gay is clearly a choice since there won't be any biological imperative behind it.

Do you have any idea how many genes there are? They're still looking.

Yes, and you do you realize how quickly we've found many and cataloged them? We're already on the verge of making "Designer" babies (Three parent babies already occurring), yet we can't find a single gene to prove gays are "born this way"?

Homosexuality isn't a choice.

As admirable as your dogmatic insistence is, with lack of data to show otherwise, robotic Orwellian repetition does not make one correct.

And if it was, I still wouldn't support gay conversion therapy because it is your right to make that choice.

If adults choose to be gay, so be it. However, parents as the legal guardians of their underage children have the legal authority to choose to seek help for them.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

If adults choose to be gay, so be it. However, parents as the legal guardians of their underage children have the legal authority to choose to seek help for them.

Seek help? As if people need help to not be homosexual. There is positively nothing wrong with being L, G, B, or T and I am sick and tired of people acting like LGBT people are diseased degenerates. People who treat us like that are why countless LGBT people have committed suicide. People who push this "moralistic" garbage ruin countless lives, and yet they claim to worship gods of "love."

[Liriena]

Yes, I consider "conversion therapy" to be, among other things, child abuse. It's also, as far as I'm concerned, a form of endangerment and a fraud.

[Ashmoria]

Let me start by saying this: Gay conversion does not work.

Except for numerous ex-Gay individuals, such as "Roe".

Homosexuality is not a choice that can be discouraged, nor a mental illness to be cured.

Show me the proof being Gay isn't a choice. After 25 years of research, they've yet to find the "gay gene".

Even more disturbing, is that only a handful of states have banned this procedure, leaving the majority of the American LGBT population at risk.

If an adult person who identifies as Gay wants to undergo the therapy, I don't see any reason to prevent that. As for underage individuals, as long as there is nothing like electro-shock or such going on, I again see no issues.

there is reason to outlaw quack practices like gay conversion therapy. it charges money for a treatment that doesn't work.

if gay is a choice then it should be easy for a gay person to decide not to be gay any more just as it was easy for them to make the choice to begin with. (funny isn't it that being gay is some kind of easy-peasy choice but once you have made it you cant UNmake it? ...I wonder what that means about how much of a choice it really is....)

[Vassenor]

When did torture stop being abuse?

And if you're making the claim that homosexuality is a choice, where is your evidence in support of this fact?

[Socialist Nordia]

http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html

Again, read your sources before trying to debate:

No studies have found specific "gay genes" that reliably make someone gay.

Of course they haven't found the specific gene yet,

After 25 years of looking, they should be making at least some progress, instead of 75% of their studies turning up nothing at all by their own admission.

if it is a gene.

If there is no gene, than being gay is clearly a choice since there won't be any biological imperative behind it.

Do you have any idea how many genes there are? They're still looking.

Yes, and you do you realize how quickly we've found many and cataloged them? We're already on the verge of making "Designer" babies (Three parent babies already occurring), yet we can't find a single gene to prove gays are "born this way"?

Homosexuality isn't a choice.

As admirable as your dogmatic insistence is, with lack of data to show otherwise, robotic Orwellian repetition does not make one correct.

And if it was, I still wouldn't support gay conversion therapy because it is your right to make that choice.

If adults choose to be gay, so be it. However, parents as the legal guardians of their underage children have the legal authority to choose to seek help for them.

You realise that there are other factors besides genes that could make it not a choice, correct? There's no specific gene for many things. And I suggest you look at some of the other responses. Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's a choice. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their children to this "therapy". It's abusive.

[Elepis]

snip

Also, I am Bi, and I can tell you at no point did I wake up and think "I think I should be Bi". I just realsied I was, I didn't go decide to be Bi.

When did you decide to be straight?

[Socialist Nordia]

Also, I am Bi, and I can tell you at no point did I wake up and think "I think I should be Bi". I just realsied I was, I didn't go decide to be Bi.

When did you decide to be straight?

I don't think they believe you, or the rest of the LGBT community. They think you're just liars or something.

[USS Monitor]

Parents should not be able to force their child to go to conversion therapy. If an adult wants to go through it themselves for whatever reason, that should be legal.

[Oil exporting People]

You realise that there are other factors besides genes that could make it not a choice, correct?

Yes, and the only other option is a mental condition, which I agree isn't the likely answer. Otherwise, no, there are not.

There's no specific gene for many things.

There's been a failure to find definitive proof for any gay-related genes. As your own articles stated, 75% failed to find anything while the remainder only found some genes are common in gays (Yet are not the cause).

EDIT: Just realize that the studies done on finding overlapping genes were conducted on gay twin brothers. Why that is not solid evidence should be self-explanatory.

And I suggest you look at some of the other responses.

If you're unable to argue your stance yourself, then you should rethink it.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's a choice. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their children to this "therapy". It's abusive.

If electro-shock or such is going on, then yes I'm inclined to agree. Otherwise it's no different then taking your child to a therapist or doctor for any other issue.

[Socialist Nordia]

Parents should not be able to force their child to go to conversion therapy. If an adult wants to go through it themselves for whatever reason, that should be legal.

I'd bet they'd all go out of business if it was voluntary.

[Yodle]

Parents should not be able to force their child to go to conversion therapy. If an adult wants to go through it themselves for whatever reason, that should be legal.

Not sure why any person would want to do that, but I agree that we shouldn't restrict people from destroying their mental health if they so choose to.

[Elepis]

Also, I am Bi, and I can tell you at no point did I wake up and think "I think I should be Bi". I just realsied I was, I didn't go decide to be Bi.

When did you decide to be straight?

I don't think they believe you, or the rest of the LGBT community. They think you're just liars or something.

well, if they are going to persist in their ignorance, what can we do?

[Elepis]

You realise that there are other factors besides genes that could make it not a choice, correct?

Yes, and the only other option is a mental condition, which I agree isn't the likely answer. Otherwise, no, there are not.

There's no specific gene for many things.

There's been a failure to find definitive proof for any gay-related genes. As your own articles stated, 75% failed to find anything while the remainder only found some genes are common in gays (Yet are not the cause).

And I suggest you look at some of the other responses.

If you're unable to argue your stance yourself, then you should rethink it.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's a choice. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their children to this "therapy". It's abusive.

If electro-shock or such is going on, then yes I'm inclined to agree. Otherwise it's no different then taking your child to a therapist or doctor for any other issue.

Please tell me, when did I decide to be Bi? I don't remember this, but if you can enlighten me about my own life, please tell me.

[Narintia]

If you're over the age of 18, and want to torture your self like that then fine.
But if you're a minor, then fuck no. You can choose to do it to yourself, but your parents can't make that choice for you.

[Vassenor]

And if it is a choice, how does that justify this sort of behaviour?

[The Princes of the Universe]

Is trying to force a change that simply isn't possible on your child abusive? Is the sky blue?

[PaNTuXIa]

Yes, it also endangers the public by creating insane murderers. It's generally not a good idea to try to suppress someone's sexuality.

[USS Monitor]

Parents should not be able to force their child to go to conversion therapy. If an adult wants to go through it themselves for whatever reason, that should be legal.

I'd bet they'd all go out of business if it was voluntary.

If they go out of business it's their own fault for not keeping up with the market.

[Othelos]

Parents should not be able to force their child to go to conversion therapy. If an adult wants to go through it themselves for whatever reason, that should be legal.

This is my position.

[San Lumen]

Yes it is absolutely abuse and should be outlawed. Being gay isn't a choice and conversion therapy doesn't work.

[Othelos]

You realise that there are other factors besides genes that could make it not a choice, correct?

Yes, and the only other option is a mental condition, which I agree isn't the likely answer. Otherwise, no, there are not.

There's no specific gene for many things.

There's been a failure to find definitive proof for any gay-related genes. As your own articles stated, 75% failed to find anything while the remainder only found some genes are common in gays (Yet are not the cause).

EDIT: Just realize that the studies done on finding overlapping genes were conducted on gay twin brothers. Why that is not solid evidence should be self-explanatory.

And I suggest you look at some of the other responses.

If you're unable to argue your stance yourself, then you should rethink it.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's a choice. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their children to this "therapy". It's abusive.

If electro-shock or such is going on, then yes I'm inclined to agree. Otherwise it's no different then taking your child to a therapist or doctor for any other issue.

It's not the same as any other kind of therapy, because therapy is meant to fix emotional/mental problems. Homosexuality is not a problem; there's nothing to "fix".

[Geilinor]

Let me start by saying this: Gay conversion does not work.

Except for numerous ex-Gay individuals, such as "Roe".

Homosexuality is not a choice that can be discouraged, nor a mental illness to be cured.

Show me the proof being Gay isn't a choice. After 25 years of research, they've yet to find the "gay gene".

Even more disturbing, is that only a handful of states have banned this procedure, leaving the majority of the American LGBT population at risk.

If an adult person who identifies as Gay wants to undergo the therapy, I don't see any reason to prevent that. As for underage individuals, as long as there is nothing like electro-shock or such going on, I again see no issues.

There doesn't have to be a "gay gene" for being gay to not be a choice.

[Appalatchia]

As for underage individuals, as long as there is nothing like electro-shock or such going on, I again see no issues.

Whether or not you see an issue has absolutely no baring on the facts. Psychologists see an issue. It's proven to be ineffective, it's proven to be psychologically damaging to children who undergo it.