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Is "Conversion Therapy" Child Abuse?

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Should "conversion therapy" be considered child abuse?

Yes
289
81%
No
58
16%
Unsure/ undecided
12
3%
 
Total votes : 359

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:18 am

Salus Maior wrote: No thank you. I'd rather not have my children subjected to shock therapy and mentally and physically brutalized for no reason.

Suffering builds character.
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The United Remnants of America
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Postby The United Remnants of America » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:18 am

Salus Maior wrote:
American Imperial State wrote:Conversion therapy should be mandatory and free for school aged children. Like healthcare should be.


No thank you. I'd rather not have my children subjected to shock therapy and mentally and physically brutalized for no reason.

"For no reason."

So you're cool with it if it's for a reason?
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:20 am

The United Remnants of America wrote:"For no reason."

So you're cool with it if it's for a reason?

I mean, if the reason is "Because they decided to join la legion etrangere, I guess I'd have to be okay with my kids being way more hard that I could ever dream of being? :p
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:21 am

The United Remnants of America wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
No thank you. I'd rather not have my children subjected to shock therapy and mentally and physically brutalized for no reason.

"For no reason."

So you're cool with it if it's for a reason?


No.
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The United Remnants of America
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Postby The United Remnants of America » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:23 am

Salus Maior wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:"For no reason."

So you're cool with it if it's for a reason?


No.

Okay, just making sure.

You could've just said "No thank you. I'd rather not have my children subjected to shock therapy and mentally and physically brutalized," and stopped at that point.
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Jumalariik
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Postby Jumalariik » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:08 am

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Korhal IVV wrote:Conversion therapy does not work at all. However, it is still possible for you change your orientation, that is, if the you will it.

Conversion therapy is just sending electric shocks in someone's brain. It is useless and is abuse.
1 Corinthians 18-27....


And tell me kind sir why anyone would give to shits about what some old book says about sexuality.

I assume you are no longer Christian? :shock:
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:36 am

The biblical worldview requires that alternative sexualities and transgenders as well as "nonbinary" people and such to be choosing to be such. Otherwise, if it were any other circumstance, this means that God must've created them to automatically send them to Hell. And their "God" isn't a cruel god, of course; he loves everybody and wants them in Heaven. So obviously those alternate sexualities and such are choosing to be such, and if they deny it, they are liars. Obviously.

Regardless, conversion therapy is never and shall never be a valid form of trying to force children to be something they aren't. Actually, there is no valid form of doing that.

If you happen to find out your kid is homosexual, there is nothing you can do to change that. They are homosexual. So just accept it and move on. Everyone will be much happier for it.

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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:00 am

The V O I D wrote:The biblical worldview requires that alternative sexualities and transgenders as well as "nonbinary" people and such to be choosing to be such. Otherwise, if it were any other circumstance, this means that God must've created them to automatically send them to Hell. And their "God" isn't a cruel god, of course; he loves everybody and wants them in Heaven. So obviously those alternate sexualities and such are choosing to be such, and if they deny it, they are liars. Obviously.

Regardless, conversion therapy is never and shall never be a valid form of trying to force children to be something they aren't. Actually, there is no valid form of doing that.

If you happen to find out your kid is homosexual, there is nothing you can do to change that. They are homosexual. So just accept it and move on. Everyone will be much happier for it.

This. Even in the population that has "sincerely-held beliefs" that being homosexual or transgender, or acting on those to improve one's health and positive mental and life outcomes, is wrong needs to love, support, and respect their transgender of LGB+ children, because rejection and non-support, as well as anti-gay treatment, plays right into making their life even harder, and less mentally healthy, and is even correlated with much higher risks of suicide...and that's just with the impact the parents have.
Last edited by Noraika on Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blasted Craigs
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Postby Blasted Craigs » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:28 am

For my late to the party opinion, I think yes, conversion therapy is torture, especially when parts of it involve actual torture including starvation and sometimes beatings, Not to mention mental trauma, which leads to deaths of youths involved (Whether from exposure during treatment or suicide later), which I guess for the family it is preferable to have a dead child than a living gay child.
Sources for above claim
http://www.mtv.com/news/2685536/conversion-therapy-killing-lgbt-youth-therapeutic-fraud-prevention-act/
http://www.thesouthafrican.com/sa-teen-dies-brutal-death-after-attending-gay-conversion-camp/
etc....look it up if you want more examples..
Now, I think sexuality should never be forced on an individual on either side of the spectrum, which is why I am also against parents getting hormone therapy to change the sex of their children, or insisting their child wear clothes of the opposite gender in an effort to be "cool" and "Progressive".
http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/child-abuse-parents-dress-up-son-like-a-boy-send-him-to-school-and-demand-favoritism
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3551502/Mother-allows-one-twin-boys-four-wear-DRESS-school-believed-girl-just-18-months-old.html
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/31054/dress-punishment
This is also, in my opinion, child abuse.
For heaven's sake, let the kids be fricking kids! Stop worrying about their sexuality, the kid will have enough time to worry over it when they are adults and able to make that decision. Just support your kid as a new adult when the time comes, and if they tell you as a kid, just accept it and move on.
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Renewed Imperial Germany
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Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:32 am

Jumalariik wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
And tell me kind sir why anyone would give to shits about what some old book says about sexuality.

I assume you are no longer Christian? :shock:


I ditched it because I realized I, myself, didn't actually believe anything, but thought it would 'look better' if I did.
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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:07 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Othelos wrote:To be fair, the bible never says that being a homosexual person is a sin.


Neither does the Catholic/Orthodox Church. But homosexual acts are still sinful.

Yep. I never denied that.
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Jumalariik
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Postby Jumalariik » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:54 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:I assume you are no longer Christian? :shock:


I ditched it because I realized I, myself, didn't actually believe anything, but thought it would 'look better' if I did.

I'm sorry. I hope you come back.
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Zubatman
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Postby Zubatman » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:58 pm

Jumalariik wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
I ditched it because I realized I, myself, didn't actually believe anything, but thought it would 'look better' if I did.

I'm sorry. I hope you come back.

They're not through yelling at you yet. ;)

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:59 pm

Jumalariik wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
I ditched it because I realized I, myself, didn't actually believe anything, but thought it would 'look better' if I did.

I'm sorry. I hope you come back.


As a queer Christian, I honestly cannot blame her for leaving the faith (whether or not her leaving it was informed by so-called "Christian" attitudes towards queer people). And personally, I would rather people who say "I hope you come back" DON'T say it to a queer person unless you are willing to fight the institutionalized homophobia and transphobia that exists within 90% of the religion. Those attitudes are at the root of why 'Conversion Therapy' is horrible, and why it exists in the first place.

If you're not willing to do that, to fight that, then anything else you say is an empty, meaningless platitude designed to absolve you of YOUR guilt.
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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:01 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:I'm sorry. I hope you come back.


As a queer Christian, I honestly cannot blame her for leaving the faith (whether or not her leaving it was informed by so-called "Christian" attitudes towards queer people). And personally, I would rather people who say "I hope you come back" DON'T say it to a queer person unless you are willing to fight the institutionalized homophobia and transphobia that exists within 90% of the religion. Those attitudes are at the root of why 'Conversion Therapy' is horrible, and why it exists in the first place.

If you're not willing to do that, to fight that, then anything else you say is an empty, meaningless platitude designed to absolve you of YOUR guilt.

*still cringes at queer*
I would challenge that point. If some of the people that are most likely to change the problems leave (by virtue of them being themselves to change things I mean) then it always be an outside looking in fight.
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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:04 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Jumalariik wrote:I'm sorry. I hope you come back.


As a queer Christian, I honestly cannot blame her for leaving the faith (whether or not her leaving it was informed by so-called "Christian" attitudes towards queer people). And personally, I would rather people who say "I hope you come back" DON'T say it to a queer person unless you are willing to fight the institutionalized homophobia and transphobia that exists within 90% of the religion. Those attitudes are at the root of why 'Conversion Therapy' is horrible, and why it exists in the first place.

If you're not willing to do that, to fight that, then anything else you say is an empty, meaningless platitude designed to absolve you of YOUR guilt.

Fighting homophobia/transphobia inside of a religion is like trying to move all the sand into the ocean...it's easier to just form your own enclave inside of it, which many have done.

And as long as people believe in a God that they believe cares about sexual orientation, there will be people who try to "carry out his will" to "help" people become heterosexual.
Last edited by Othelos on Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Grenartia » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:05 pm

The Alexanderians wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
As a queer Christian, I honestly cannot blame her for leaving the faith (whether or not her leaving it was informed by so-called "Christian" attitudes towards queer people). And personally, I would rather people who say "I hope you come back" DON'T say it to a queer person unless you are willing to fight the institutionalized homophobia and transphobia that exists within 90% of the religion. Those attitudes are at the root of why 'Conversion Therapy' is horrible, and why it exists in the first place.

If you're not willing to do that, to fight that, then anything else you say is an empty, meaningless platitude designed to absolve you of YOUR guilt.

*still cringes at queer*
I would challenge that point. If some of the people that are most likely to change the problems leave (by virtue of them being themselves to change things I mean) then it always be an outside looking in fight.


I totally agree. I wish more people would stay. But I don't think they should stay if they have stopped believing.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:06 pm

Othelos wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
As a queer Christian, I honestly cannot blame her for leaving the faith (whether or not her leaving it was informed by so-called "Christian" attitudes towards queer people). And personally, I would rather people who say "I hope you come back" DON'T say it to a queer person unless you are willing to fight the institutionalized homophobia and transphobia that exists within 90% of the religion. Those attitudes are at the root of why 'Conversion Therapy' is horrible, and why it exists in the first place.

If you're not willing to do that, to fight that, then anything else you say is an empty, meaningless platitude designed to absolve you of YOUR guilt.

Fighting homophobia/transphobia inside of a religion is like trying to move all the sand into the ocean...it's easier to just form your own enclave inside of it, which many have done.


I'm well aware. In fact, I'm all for queer people and allies going to more inclusive denominations.
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American Imperial State
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Postby American Imperial State » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:12 am

Vassenor wrote:
American Imperial State wrote:Conversion therapy should be mandatory and free for school aged children.


Why?


To protect children
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:05 am

American Imperial State wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Why?


To protect children


Protect them from what? Being gay or bi or alternatively gendered?

Uh, you do realize what conversion therapy is, right? It's worse than electro-shock therapy. Pretty sure I read somewhere some people get PTSD from it.

And in most cases, it doesn't work. And by most I mean all. The cases where it does 'work' and the person says they aren't gay, and they say and do all the "right" things; they are faking in hopes of not being tortured anymore. Y'know, like any other person if they were being tortured.
Last edited by The V O I D on Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The 93rd Coalition
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Postby The 93rd Coalition » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:07 am

Yep.

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:07 am

American Imperial State wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Why?


To protect children

"We need to torture gay children into becoming straight!"
"Why?"
"It's for the children! Think of the children!"
What?
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:30 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:
American Imperial State wrote:
To protect children

"We need to torture gay children into becoming straight!"
"Why?"
"It's for the children! Think of the children!"
What?


This is the only possible thought process I can see as being even remotely close to valid or logical in the social conservative view...

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:53 pm

American Imperial State wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Why?


To protect children

From what?
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Renewed Imperial Germany
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Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:59 pm

Othelos wrote:
American Imperial State wrote:
To protect children

From what?


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