Is "Conversion Therapy" Child Abuse?

[Gauthier]

It isn't. Though Oil Exporting People may be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome after being captured by Doctor Frankenstein.

Or watched A Clockwork Orange one time too many.

Conditioning grave nausea at the sight and sound of gay sex.

Especially cruel to yaoi fangirls.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Or watched A Clockwork Orange one time too many.

Conditioning grave nausea at the sight and sound of gay sex.
Especially cruel to yaoi fangirls.

Actually, that might be worth trying on those pesky fruit flies.

[Socialist Nordia]

You want some names? How about the world psychiatric association.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35893729

I'd like to see you get a more reputable source on your side. Sadly, their really aren't any.

First, I'd like to point you ignored the first part of my response, which is very telling. Second, as I've noted before, the methods used in conversion therapy are usually the exact same as those used in other forms of such.

I ignored part one because it's been refuted several times. It's not entirely certain, but it could be a combination of genes, social factors, hormones, and several other things that could possibly be causing it. And, as I have noted, whether homosexuality is a choice isn't even relevant, as there would be nothing wrong with making that choice.

And, clearly your assessment of it is wrong. I think you are far less qualified to judge the effects of conversion therapy than the American medical association, the american psychiatric organisation, the American psychological organisation, etc. Your personal opinion on the procedures are irrelevant if they are deemed wrong by every reputable source.

[Noraika]

First, I'd like to point you ignored the first part of my response, which is very telling. Second, as I've noted before, the methods used in conversion therapy are usually the exact same as those used in other forms of such.

I ignored part one because it's been refuted several times. It's not entirely certain, but it could be a combination of genes, social factors, hormones, and several other things that could possibly be causing it. And, as I have noted, whether homosexuality is a choice isn't even relevant, as there would be nothing wrong with making that choice.

And, clearly your assessment of it is wrong. I think you are far less qualified to judge the effects of conversion therapy than the American medical association, the american psychiatric organisation, the American psychological organisation, etc. Your personal opinion on the procedures are irrelevant if they are deemed wrong by every reputable source.

Not to mention that, regardless, non-physical conversion therapy does not follow the same procedures as regular therapy. It actually goes heavily against well established psychiatric guidelines of practice.

[Neutraligon]

I ignored part one because it's been refuted several times. It's not entirely certain, but it could be a combination of genes, social factors, hormones, and several other things that could possibly be causing it. And, as I have noted, whether homosexuality is a choice isn't even relevant, as there would be nothing wrong with making that choice.

And, clearly your assessment of it is wrong. I think you are far less qualified to judge the effects of conversion therapy than the American medical association, the american psychiatric organisation, the American psychological organisation, etc. Your personal opinion on the procedures are irrelevant if they are deemed wrong by every reputable source.

Not to mention that, regardless, non-physical conversion therapy does not follow the same procedures as regular therapy. It actually goes heavily against well established psychiatric guidelines of practice.

of those who actually do conversion therapy, I wonder how many have a degree in the field and are licensed to practice therapy.

[Socialist Nordia]

Not to mention that, regardless, non-physical conversion therapy does not follow the same procedures as regular therapy. It actually goes heavily against well established psychiatric guidelines of practice.

of those who actually do conversion therapy, I wonder how many have a degree in the field and are licensed to practice therapy.

Who needs a degree when you have Jesus?

[Noraika]

Not to mention that, regardless, non-physical conversion therapy does not follow the same procedures as regular therapy. It actually goes heavily against well established psychiatric guidelines of practice.

of those who actually do conversion therapy, I wonder how many have a degree in the field and are licensed to practice therapy.

They do have degrees, but they often operate outside of professional psychiatric organisations due to the fact that their practices would be deemed unethical therein, although they will not say such. They will also be very against the direction of current psychological practice, and often go off of outdated or misinterpreted data to collaborate their claims. They often label themselves as an "Independent Practice". That, at least, is what I have seen in this regard. My apologies, but in this particular case, I do not have an adequate academic study. Only my own observation on the matter.

[Vassenor]

I still say advocates for conversion therapy should be made to undergo it just so they know what they're doing to people.

[King Stannis Baratheon]

What the fuck... these sick bastards need to be bend the knee or be destroyed. I had a younger brother who had unusual habits, but nevertheless, I loved him, even if it was not necessarily for said habits.

[Grenartia]

1. If there isn't a gene, that doesn't make it a mental illness. Most preferences don't have genes. It could very well still be natural.

1. If it's not caused by genetics and is not a mental condition, there is no other natural cause and thus it is a choice.

2. Even without electroshocks, conversion therapy can be traumatic and damaging. Medical organisations tend to agree.

2. It's no different than regular therapy in that case. For example, talking about being raped in the past can be traumatic, but is necessary for healing. You seem to think that is an abuse. Also, "unnamed experts agree with me!".

1. Not any more than being extroverted or introverted are choices.

2. Except, even that so-called "regular therapy" (which actually involves bullying, harrassment, guilt-tripping, etc., instead of legitimate therapy) produces trauma and damage. As seen in the case of Leelah Alcorn.

[Grenartia]

I still say advocates for conversion therapy should be made to undergo it just so they know what they're doing to people.

Indeed.

[Armenian Cilica]

I still say advocates for conversion therapy should be made to undergo it just so they know what they're doing to people.

I'd pay to watch that.

[Vassenor]

I still say advocates for conversion therapy should be made to undergo it just so they know what they're doing to people.

I'd pay to watch that.

I don't know where you are, but in this country that's classed as torture porn and it's very illegal.

[Arkadacia]

I'd pay to watch that.

I don't know where you are, but in this country that's classed as torture porn and it's very illegal.

You have any idea how much the SAW movies made here? Torture porn is all the rage! /s

At any rate, yes, conversion therapy is child abuse. And entirely fucked in the head. The fact that it's still legal is evidence the LBGT rights battle hasn't been won yet.

[Evilland of Evil Business]

Well this is what happens when extremist Christians are given power huh.

[The V O I D]

Of course it is. Sexual orientation and gender identity are both determined by hormones and other factors while a fetus is developing. See, your genitals are made first in the early months of pregnancy - but gender identity and sexual orientation hormones come into play towards the end of it, thus causing one's brain to develop in certain ways and neuron centers to form certain patterns. These neuron patterns and the like do not become active until around puberty, sometimes slightly earlier. That is why some people don't realize they're gay or bi or whatever until they are teenagers - and this is also why, to some, it may appear to be a choice that comes up out of the blue.

And this is fueled even further by the fact that, depending on environment, some people may hide their sexuality or identity because of hostility and other factors, allowing the belief of choice to be fueled because they seem to reveal it much later in life - once they are safe from a hostile environment.

But yeah, not a choice. Conversion therapy is cruel and should be stopped. If it does somehow work, all you succeeded in doing is torturing your child to conform to your views of normal. It wasn't their choice or their fault. If anything, blame faulty genes or hormones for causing it - not the child themselves - and move on. Accept it. Seriously, shouldn't be that hard.

Note: not saying I view it as faulty genetics or hormones, but I'm saying if conservatives really can't deal with it any other way, accept it as that and move on with your life.

[Bottle]

Of course it is. Sexual orientation and gender identity are both determined by hormones and other factors while a fetus is developing. See, your genitals are made first in the early months of pregnancy - but gender identity and sexual orientation hormones come into play towards the end of it, thus causing one's brain to develop in certain ways and neuron centers to form certain patterns. These neuron patterns and the like do not become active until around puberty, sometimes slightly earlier. That is why some people don't realize they're gay or bi or whatever until they are teenagers - and this is also why, to some, it may appear to be a choice that comes up out of the blue.

This is all HIGHLY speculative.

There is no solid evidence that "gender identity" has a distinctive neuroanatomy. There is also a lot of evidence that sexual orientation is not set in stone at birth. There is also a mountain of evidence suggesting that the human brain is tremendously plastic and everything from how we perceive gender to how we experience attraction are impacted by environmental factors that extend well after birth.

[Individual Concerns]

Of course it is. Sexual orientation and gender identity are both determined by hormones and other factors while a fetus is developing. See, your genitals are made first in the early months of pregnancy - but gender identity and sexual orientation hormones come into play towards the end of it, thus causing one's brain to develop in certain ways and neuron centers to form certain patterns. These neuron patterns and the like do not become active until around puberty, sometimes slightly earlier. That is why some people don't realize they're gay or bi or whatever until they are teenagers - and this is also why, to some, it may appear to be a choice that comes up out of the blue.

This is all HIGHLY speculative.

There is no solid evidence that "gender identity" has a distinctive neuroanatomy. There is also a lot of evidence that sexual orientation is not set in stone at birth. There is also a mountain of evidence suggesting that the human brain is tremendously plastic and everything from how we perceive gender to how we experience attraction are impacted by environmental factors that extend well after birth.

Indeed.
The real "fuck" of it, if you will pardon the parlance, is that sexual orientation and inclinations are formed and informed more psycholigically than physiologically and mostly during our most androgenous years through the absorbtion and subconscious processing of information and experiences that seem mostly innocuous.

And yes, the situation is fluid.
While at some point, many peoples mind are made up so to speak, self-determination can be excercised to change or at least customize ones initial comportment.
This is easily overlooked because in most cultures where such things are relevant, most people are not encouraged to develope the degree of self-awareness and will to realize how changeable (adaptable) they can be and to do so in defiance of ALL convention.

So little scientific endeavor is allowed to progress outside of political narrative that it is becoming nearly impossible to ascertain and maintain any "clean" conceptions about human consciousness anymore.

[Noraika]

The true state of affairs is that medically speaking we only have theories as to what makes a person a particular sexuality or gender. The only thing that is medically certain is that it seems to be a natural part of human diversity, existing in society for as long as we have record, and that trying to "fix" or "cure" it has proven impossible, and attempting to often increases negative life outcomes, as well as just generally medically unethical.

[USS Monitor]

It's natural does not mean it's not a choice. That all the available evidence points to it not being a choice means it's not a choice. That there are a significant number of homosexuals, many of which are otherwise conformist, means it's probably not a choice. It's natural simply doesn't(and most of those examples are not examples of pure homosexuality but rather sexual flexibility anyways).

Mutations aren't necessarily natural, and if being gay is caused by a mutation, homosexuality is not natural. But if someone wants to be homosexual, that's their right in the United States.

Mutations are natural unless you mean genetic engineering.

[Quokkastan]

Mutations aren't necessarily natural, and if being gay is caused by a mutation, homosexuality is not natural. But if someone wants to be homosexual, that's their right in the United States.

Mutations are natural unless you mean genetic engineering.

Well there goes my 3,000 year scheme to slowly introduce homosexuality into the population via retroviral insertion.

And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling ironclads!

[Llamalandia]

Mutations aren't necessarily natural, and if being gay is caused by a mutation, homosexuality is not natural. But if someone wants to be homosexual, that's their right in the United States.

Mutations are natural unless you mean genetic engineering.

True but not all mutations are "desirable." Certainly a mutation leading to homosexuality is unlikely to be reproductively advantageous. Of course ultimately we don't determine morality based on natural selection.

[Quokkastan]

Mutations are natural unless you mean genetic engineering.

True but not all mutations are "desirable." Certainly a mutation leading to homosexuality is unlikely to be reproductively advantageous. Of course ultimately we don't determine morality based on natural selection.

It very easily could be.

[USS Monitor]

Also, a gene just for preference? Does that mean you have genes for fashion sense, what shows you like and how much you like chicken?

Genes probably do have an effect on things like what foods you like. My dad and I have such similar tastes that it's a running joke in our family how we can go to a restaurant, each of us will decide what we want without discussing it, and we usually end up ordering the same thing.

[USS Monitor]

Mutations are natural unless you mean genetic engineering.

True but not all mutations are "desirable." Certainly a mutation leading to homosexuality is unlikely to be reproductively advantageous. Of course ultimately we don't determine morality based on natural selection.

Homosexuals have been around for a while and it doesn't seem like they're destroying the species or dying off.