Truck Drives Through Crowd in Nice, France

[IndependentGreenland]

What the fuck do those quotes mean after a terrorist attack? Coexist with who? The Islamic State? Anyone want to propose that idea to them?

If it is illegal to make fun of Christianity and Judaism in France, then why the fuck is it legal to make fun of Islam then in France? Exactly France was looking for trouble, and as a result France let its own people die to a terrorist attack they could of very well prevented in many ways.

Christianity and Judaism to a certain extent are European religions - culturally and historically. Islam was always a Middle Eastern religion... where it should belong!

[Novus America]

So just say it. Don't post quotes by MLK about coexistence or cartoons of the Earth looking at itself. What the fuck does that even mean?

So Caucasians and Africans shouldn't co-exist?

Wahhabis should not co-exist with anybody. I have no idea what Africans or Caucasians have to with this.

[Olerand]

Did it? Iran ended in an Islamist rebellion. The Westernization of Afghanistan was limited to the Kabul bourgeoisie, overthrown by Communists, then overtaken by Islamists. Where has Western support for liberal beliefs ended well in the Middle East?

Hospitals, we can do. But hospitals don't bring about ideological change. Schools do. But we're not there to defend our efforts. The Islamists are there to attack them, and they have nothing else to do.

Am I saying that everyone will become pre-Western secularists celebrating religious pluralism and tolerance? No. But it clearly did work to an extent in Iran and Afghanistan. But, as dictators often do, they fucked it up.

I think Tunisia is a good, if flawed, example. And Turkey has adopted and largely maintained Western values for nearly a century. Although Erdogan has been chipping away more and more at those values. And Morocco and Jordan have been edging further and further away from the reactionary elements of their societies.

Hospitals can effect ideological change in an indirect way. In the sense that you need knowledge and technology to make them effective. Well, the answer to that is to keep fighting them until you've won.

You are giving examples of successful Westernization of the bourgeoisie. Look to Tehran today and you will see that is true. That is however meaningless to the vast majority of the rest of the population, who is not bourgeois. That is why Ennahda wins in Tunisia, the AKP in Turkey, etc.

Meaningless, that's not what the Enlightenment is about. That's the scientific revolution. It can occur without the Enlightenment, as East Asia shows.

[Salus Maior]

If it is illegal to make fun of Christianity and Judaism in France, then why the fuck is it legal to make fun of Islam then in France? Exactly France was looking for trouble, and as a result France let its own people die to a terrorist attack they could of very well prevented in many ways.

Christianity and Judaism to a certain extent are European religions - culturally and historically. Islam was always a Middle Eastern religion... where it should belong!

It's not illegal to make fun of either of those religions in France. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Olerand]

What the fuck do those quotes mean after a terrorist attack? Coexist with who? The Islamic State? Anyone want to propose that idea to them?

I believe the message trying to be relayed is don't blame all Muslims for the actions of a few radicals. That peaceful co-existence is the only way to defeat the forces of violence and religious radicalism.

But it is utterly meaningless when an IS fanatic drives into a crowd, who probably included Muslims too. You cannot coexist with such a person, and here, there is only him and the crowd. Who should coexist? Coexisting with fanatical Islam is impossible, clearly. So who's supposed to be coexisting?

[Geilinor]

You are giving examples of successful Westernization of the bourgeoisie. Look to Tehran today and you will see that is true. That is however meaningless to the vast majority of the rest of the population, who is not bourgeois. That is why Ennahda wins in Tunisia, the AKP in Turkey, etc.

Meaningless, that's not what the Enlightenment is about. That's the scientific revolution. It can occur without the Enlightenment, as East Asia shows.

Ennahda lost the last elections in Tunisia.

[IndependentGreenland]

Everyone could I have your attention! The problem is..... SAUDI ARABIA!

We should trade more with Russia instead of an evil country!

[Olerand]

You are giving examples of successful Westernization of the bourgeoisie. Look to Tehran today and you will see that is true. That is however meaningless to the vast majority of the rest of the population, who is not bourgeois. That is why Ennahda wins in Tunisia, the AKP in Turkey, etc.

Meaningless, that's not what the Enlightenment is about. That's the scientific revolution. It can occur without the Enlightenment, as East Asia shows.

Ennahda lost the last elections in Tunisia.

Thanks to the urban bourgeoisie, who won with a plurality of the vote. It should win the next one, considering how terrible Nidaa Tunis is.

[Dameth]

So, you're saying that people can't be sympathetic to France if they're not French?

That's precisely what I'm saying. Don't. You're not helping at all.

Fighting what exactly? And why not?

Islamic State in Iraq & Levant. Maybe people do not realize this, but the whole reason we get attacked is because we are active in the war against ISIS. This is a consequence of our choices, you cant wage a war and not expect to be attacked.

Now ISIS uses deranged loners they recruited over the internet to do their bidding. That's an act of war, and we need to respond accordingly. That's litterally all we need. Once ISIS is removed from this globe, the attacks will stop.

[Salus Maior]

Everyone could I have your attention! The problem is..... SAUDI ARABIA!

Yeah, we pretty much all know that. No need to pointless theatrics and begging for attention.

Although considering you're pro-Trump that's not surprising.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Using an enormous tragedy to take a cheap shots at people you disagree with? Nice.

And the Left-Wing haven't used that trick??!!

"They do it, too"? Seriously? Did we end up hashing this out on the elementary school playground or something?

Forget I said anything, and come back to me when you can discuss this as grownups do.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Thank G-d they put a bullet in that man's head, apparently he had a gun and explosives. Fuck these bastards.

The West is convulsing.

[Olerand]

So, you're saying that people can't be sympathetic to France if they're not French?

That's precisely what I'm saying. Don't. You're not helping at all.

Fighting what exactly? And why not?

Islamic State in Iraq & Levant. Maybe people do not realize this, but the whole reason we get attacked is because we are active in the war against ISIS. This is a consequence of our choices, you cant wage a war and not expect to be attacked.

Now ISIS uses deranged loners they recruited over the internet to do their bidding. That's an act of war, and we need to respond accordingly. That's litterally all we need. Once ISIS is removed from this globe, the attacks will stop.

But they won't. Just like how Al-Qaeda didn't stop attacking after America annihilated its Taliban-sponsored HQs on the ground in Afghanistan.

[Unified Governments]

Everyone could I have your attention! The problem is..... SAUDI ARABIA!

We should trade more with Russia instead of a terrorist country!

The problem has become ISIS. Seriously, the Saudis had nothing to do with this. These were ISIS-inspired cockroaches.

[IndependentGreenland]

Everyone could I have your attention! The problem is..... SAUDI ARABIA!

Yeah, we pretty much all know that. No need to pointless theatrics and begging for attention.

Although considering you're pro-Trump that's not surprising.

Are you pro-Trump?

[Unified Governments]

And the Left-Wing haven't used that trick??!!

"They do it, too"? Seriously? Did we end up hashing this out on the elementary school playground or something?

Forget I said anything, and come back to me when you can discuss this as grownups do.

Would it be possible for you to participate in any thread without being as snide as you are rude?

[Olerand]

Everyone could I have your attention! The problem is..... SAUDI ARABIA!

We should trade more with Russia instead of a terrorist country!

The problem has become ISIS. Seriously, the Saudis had nothing to do with this. These were ISIS-inspired cockroaches.

The Saudis are the vector of this toxic ideology. The IS is Wahhabi, Saudi Arabia is the origin of Wahhabism.

[Vallermoore]

Why does it always seem to be Muslims behind attacks like this??? Most Muslims are very very good, but the ones that are bad are horrid.

[IndependentGreenland]

And the Left-Wing haven't used that trick??!!

"They do it, too"? Seriously? Did we end up hashing this out on the elementary school playground or something?

Forget I said anything, and come back to me when you can discuss this as grownups do.

The Leftists take cheap shots at people far more that Rightists. Yet the Left get pissed when a Rightist cheap shots.

[Salus Maior]

So, you're saying that people can't be sympathetic to France if they're not French?

That's precisely what I'm saying. Don't. You're not helping at all.

Fighting what exactly? And why not?

Islamic State in Iraq & Levant. Maybe people do not realize this, but the whole reason we get attacked is because we are active in the war against ISIS. This is a consequence of our choices, you cant wage a war and not expect to be attacked.

Now ISIS uses deranged loners they recruited over the internet to do their bidding. That's an act of war, and we need to respond accordingly. That's litterally all we need. Once ISIS is removed from this globe, the attacks will stop.

That's backwards and kind of stupid to be frank. You can't tell people to not feel sad for the deaths of innocent people in a country they're fond of.

That's easier said than done. And in that case I would suggest that France actually do more than just bombing which isn't nearly as effective.

[IndependentGreenland]

The problem has become ISIS. Seriously, the Saudis had nothing to do with this. These were ISIS-inspired cockroaches.

The Saudis are the vector of this toxic ideology. The IS is Wahhabi, Saudi Arabia is the origin of Wahhabism.

Even Iran is less extreme that Saudi Arabia.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

"They do it, too"? Seriously? Did we end up hashing this out on the elementary school playground or something?

Forget I said anything, and come back to me when you can discuss this as grownups do.

Would it be possible for you to participate in any thread without being as snide as you are rude?

Certainly. Would you prefer me to be more snide than I am rude, or more rude than I am snide?

[Geilinor]

Ennahda lost the last elections in Tunisia.

Thanks to the urban bourgeoisie, who won with a plurality of the vote. It should win the next one, considering how terrible Nidaa Tunis is.

That shows successful Westernization can happen if you have a large enough urban bourgeoisie. Industrialization and urbanization need to happen.

[Unified Governments]

The problem has become ISIS. Seriously, the Saudis had nothing to do with this. These were ISIS-inspired cockroaches.

The Saudis are the vector of this toxic ideology. The IS is Wahhabi, Saudi Arabia is the origin of Wahhabism.

The problem has spread far beyond Saudi Arabia.

[Dameth]

But they won't. Just like how Al-Qaeda didn't stop attacking after America annihilated its Taliban-sponsored HQs on the ground in Afghanistan.

That's up to discussion I suppose. But between the french solution of increasing the state of emergency at home and taking the fight into enemy territory, I happen to prefer the second solution a lot more. Doing nothing is not an option anymore at this point.