Truck Drives Through Crowd in Nice, France

[Gauthier]

I was arguing against this, '[He] Wasnt a real muslim', which Arkinesia posted in response to Nazeroth with:



Which I believed Arkinesia used as a justification for him not being a Muslim; which in turn I disagreed with.

I wonder if ISIS that now claims him will open a pig farm and brewery.

They'd claim a Christian, Jew or Buddhist as one of their own if he killed a bunch of people while loudly declaring he was doing it for them.

[The Alma Mater]

So why do we keep making this about Islam when it's pretty clear the guy was emotionally unstable and off his medication?

Because it was not an emotional spur of the moment thing, but something carefully planned - including two test runs. Something claimed by IS, while the man suddenly was able to send large amounts of money to his family.

In other words: because muslims claim they hired him - and evidence sofar suggests that may in fact be true.

[Liriena]

But was he willing to work for muslims ? According to the daily fail and other sources, he wired about 100k to his family days before this attack.

So perhaps IS was not lying when they claimed he worked for them.

"Wasnt a real muslim"

By whos definition?

I wager that by a conservative definition, since the man apparently barely went to the mosque, and apparently outright broke core tenets of the faith (drinking alcohol and not observing the Ramadan).

[Vassenor]

So why do we keep making this about Islam when it's pretty clear the guy was emotionally unstable and off his medication?

Because it was not an emotional spur of the moment thing, but something carefully planned - including two test runs. Something claimed by IS, while the man suddenly was able to send large amounts of money to his family.

In other words: because muslims claim they hired him - and evidence sofar suggests that may in fact be true.

And yet they haven't said anything that wasn't on the news and despite their previous lack of difficulty in getting weapons into Europe they weren't able to supply him with real guns.

[Liriena]

Did you pull something stretching that far?

No. To suggest someone isn't a follower of Islam because they break dietary regulations is like calling a gay Christian who eats shellfish, not a Christian.

Actually, the shellfish and homosexuality thing is very debatable. Particularly the shellfish thing, because, if Menassa is anything to go by, Christians are exempt from that.

[Liriena]

My previous post was completely detrimental to the conversation. I apologize to anyone I offended, I was not referring to Islam as a whole, rather just the extremists.

For showing more integrity than an awful lot of users by apologizing, you earn a hug.

[The Alma Mater]

Because it was not an emotional spur of the moment thing, but something carefully planned - including two test runs. Something claimed by IS, while the man suddenly was able to send large amounts of money to his family.

In other words: because muslims claim they hired him - and evidence sofar suggests that may in fact be true.

And yet they haven't said anything that wasn't on the news and despite their previous lack of difficulty in getting weapons into Europe they weren't able to supply him with real guns.

Except the ones he used to fire with through the truck window you mean ?
But yes - that they could not name him is something that creates doubts.

[Aryavartha]

If someone is not actively trying to follow whatever they consider their religion to be (that to me includes attendance at a place of worship) and claim to do it in the name of that religion, I dont consider it religious terrorism. .

nonsense.

not if taking out a dozen kafirs is offered as penance or sure shot way to jannat and all previous shortcomings and transgressions will be forgiven.

[Minzerland]

No. To suggest someone isn't a follower of Islam because they break dietary regulations is like calling a gay Christian who eats shellfish, not a Christian.

Actually, the shellfish and homosexuality thing is very debatable. Particularly the shellfish thing, because, if Menassa is anything to go by, Christians are exempt from that.

Ok. It was an analogy, my point still stands.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Truly disgusting.
I hope ISIS soon feels how powerless it makes everyone else feel. It will hurt for this. And everything it's done.

[Jochizyd Republic]

So why do we keep making this about Islam when it's pretty clear the guy was emotionally unstable and off his medication?

It's about Puritan Reform Islam obviously. The guy profaned the name of God by using it in his act. Acting very clearly on the behalf of ISIS.

[The Alma Mater]

So why do we keep making this about Islam when it's pretty clear the guy was emotionally unstable and off his medication?

The guy profaned the name of God by using it in his act.

AFAIK he didn't actually do that.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's literally what that adage with the Maxim gun is all about. "We're better than the natives because we have guns and they don't".

Yes. It's "technology bitch, get it or kneel to it". Not "lol long live white perpetrated genocide!".

Remind me what Maxim guns were used for by imperial armies.

I seem to recall it would be adequately summed up by the phrase "white perpetrated genocide", while the adage "we have the Maxim gun and they do not" would also be adequately summed by up "lol long live white perpetrated genocide".

[Imperializt Russia]

"Might Makes Right." Which only holds up while the side you're rooting for has the might obviously.

Sure. The side I happen to side with do also happen to have it and I'm all for applying some healty amount to the scums behind all these attacks. I think its time for a military intervention in Syria and the reestablishment of Bachar al-Assad to his rightful position.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

The clusterfuck the war is that will leave the western armies to wade through their own dead aside, none of the western leaders support al-Assad at all and explicitly back rebel groups.

Syria also doesn't matter, in the grand scheme of things. IS won't stop being a thing just because Syria becomes stable (and even that's unlikely to result from further intervention). The Taliban didn't stop being a thing when Afghanistan fell.

[Arachno-Satinism]

Mental illness alone is not the sole reason, hence you don't see all mentally ill people hitting their trucks and killing people

Much as the far-right ideology is for blame for driving a certain murder in a certain European island, Islamism is also for blame here. Not necessarily the conventional traditionalist theology, I grant that (they have myriad of other problems). Radical Islam must always be fought, without a will to resist it the murderous ideology will continue to grow.

[Jochizyd Republic]

The guy profaned the name of God by using it in his act.

AFAIK he didn't actually do that.

He didn't say Allahu Akbar?

[Jochizyd Republic]

Mental illness alone is not the sole reason, hence you don't see all mentally ill people hitting their trucks and killing people

Much as the far-right ideology is for blame for driving a certain murder in a certain European island, Islamism is also for blame here. Not necessarily the conventional traditionalist theology, I grant that (they have myriad of other problems). Radical Islam must always be fought, without a will to resist it the murderous ideology will continue to grow.

There you go.

[The Alma Mater]

AFAIK he didn't actually do that.

He didn't say Allahu Akbar?

Noone seems to have heard him saying that (though of course, him being inside a truck and all could have made it hard to hear).
It is one of the reasons people have doubts if this was truly a man "acting in the name of Islam" as ISIS claims, just a fruitcake who happened to have been raised a muslim or someone who was willing to do this in exchange for money.

[Jochizyd Republic]

He didn't say Allahu Akbar?

Noone seems to have heard him saying that (though of course, him being inside a truck and all could have made it hard to hear).
It is one of the reasons people have doubts if this was truly a man "acting in the name of Islam" as ISIS claims, just a fruitcake who happened to have been raised a muslim or someone who was willing to do this in exchange for money.

It was probably ISIS considering everything. Or some religiously based stuff.

[Vassenor]

Noone seems to have heard him saying that (though of course, him being inside a truck and all could have made it hard to hear).
It is one of the reasons people have doubts if this was truly a man "acting in the name of Islam" as ISIS claims, just a fruitcake who happened to have been raised a muslim or someone who was willing to do this in exchange for money.

It was probably ISIS considering everything. Or some religiously based stuff.

What do you base this assertion on?

[Jochizyd Republic]

It was probably ISIS considering everything. Or some religiously based stuff.

What do you base this assertion on?

The fact that Religious Fundamentalism (or at the very least, bitterness) is high in French Muslim ghettoes.
And ISIS has attacked France many times before. Vwry recently. And the Guy was from Tunisia. Where extreme numbers of radicals are known to come from.

Are you going to call me islamophobic for this? Is this just too uncomfortable for you to handle? Give me a break. It's nearly inevitable that Religion played some part in this.

And although I'd much rather see people blame it on the persons race than their religion, seeing Radical Islam as part of it is something people will very justifiably do.

[Imperializt Russia]

What do you base this assertion on?

The fact that Religious Fundamentalism (or at the very least, bitterness) is high in French Muslim ghettoes.
And ISIS has attacked France many times before. Vwry recently. And the Guy was from Tunisia. Where extreme numbers of radicals are known to come from.

Are you going to call me islamophobic for this? Is this just too uncomfortable for you to handle? Give me a break. It's nearly inevitable that Religion played some part in this.

And although I'd much rather see people blame it on the persons race than their religion, seeing Radical Islam as part of it is something people will very justifiably do.

There is, however, a difference between embracing an ideology (say, with foreign fighters who go to Syria to join IS) and rationalising some weird anger through a religious ideology (which is what both the Orlando attack and this attack look increasingly like).

[Vassenor]

What do you base this assertion on?

The fact that Religious Fundamentalism (or at the very least, bitterness) is high in French Muslim ghettoes.
And ISIS has attacked France many times before. Vwry recently. And the Guy was from Tunisia. Where extreme numbers of radicals are known to come from.

Are you going to call me islamophobic for this? Is this just too uncomfortable for you to handle? Give me a break. It's nearly inevitable that Religion played some part in this.

And although I'd much rather see people blame it on the persons race than their religion, seeing Radical Islam as part of it is something people will very justifiably do.

I'm not going to call you islamophobic. I am however going to accuse you of grasping at straws to fit a narrative.

[Jochizyd Republic]

The fact that Religious Fundamentalism (or at the very least, bitterness) is high in French Muslim ghettoes.
And ISIS has attacked France many times before. Vwry recently. And the Guy was from Tunisia. Where extreme numbers of radicals are known to come from.

Are you going to call me islamophobic for this? Is this just too uncomfortable for you to handle? Give me a break. It's nearly inevitable that Religion played some part in this.

And although I'd much rather see people blame it on the persons race than their religion, seeing Radical Islam as part of it is something people will very justifiably do.

I'm not going to call you islamophobic. I am however going to accuse you of grasping at straws to fit a narrative.

What narrative?

[Vassenor]

I'm not going to call you islamophobic. I am however going to accuse you of grasping at straws to fit a narrative.

What narrative?

That every time something happens it must happen for a religious motive.