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UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

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So who do we want leading the Labour Party?

Jeremy Corbyn
142
48%
Owen Smith
66
22%
Lord Helix
89
30%
 
Total votes : 297

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Freefall11111
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Founded: May 31, 2016
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:21 am

To recap. Filled.
Prime Minister - May
Chancellor of the Exchequer - Hammond
Home Secretary - Rudd
Foreign Secretary - Johnson
'Brexit' Secretary - Davis
International Trade Secretary - Fox
Defence Secretary - Fallon
Education Secretary - Greening
Justice Secretary - Truss
Health Secretary - Hunt
Chief Whip - Williamson
Work and Pensions Secretary - Green
Environment Secretary - Leadsom
Transport Secretary - Grayling
Communities and Local Government Secretary - Javid
Leader of the House of Lords - Baroness Evans
Conservative Party Chairman - McLoughlin


Not filled.
Culture Secretary - TBA
Leader of the House of Commons - TBA
Business Secretary - TBA
Energy Secretary - TBA
International Development Secretary - TBA
Scotland Secretary - TBA
Wales Secretary - TBA
Northern Ireland Secretary - TBA

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:32 am

James Brokenshire is Northern Ireland Secretary.

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:41 am

Greg Clarke is Business and Energy Secretary.

Priti Patel is International Development Secretary.
Last edited by Freefall11111 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:47 am

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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:47 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:
Heh. tell me how your 'real' Labour is doing. In favor of some sort of "purism" you've rejected the map to electoral success.

Refreshing, is what.

No, seriously. What's the point in ditching half of the ideology, to the point you no longer truly oppose the government, just to chase elections, even when it's plainly evident that it won't win you elections?
Genuinely asking.


Lesser of two evils? Democracy is normally selecting the less shittier option. Not the most ideal one. I suspect a lot of people would prefer Blair over Cameron or May.

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:48 am

Vassenor wrote:Philip Hammond confirms UK will leave single market following Brexit

Well, guess we can kiss the economy goodbye.

But in the article he says "I would like to see us negotiating access to the single market".

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:51 am

Mike the Progressive wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Refreshing, is what.

No, seriously. What's the point in ditching half of the ideology, to the point you no longer truly oppose the government, just to chase elections, even when it's plainly evident that it won't win you elections?
Genuinely asking.


Lesser of two evils? Democracy is normally selecting the less shittier option. Not the most ideal one. I suspect a lot of people would prefer Blair over Cameron or May.

Well we've had thirty years of "selecting the less shittier option" and it really hasn't worked out.
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Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:51 am

Alun Cairns is Welsh Secretary, Karen Bradley is Culture Secretary. We're nearing the end.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:52 am

Freefall11111 wrote:James Brokenshire is Northern Ireland Secretary.

I know nothing about this man, must google.
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MERIZoC
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Postby MERIZoC » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:56 am

Freefall11111 wrote:James Brokenshire is Northern Ireland Secretary.

Why sack Villiers? Or did she step down?

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:57 am

Merizoc wrote:
Freefall11111 wrote:James Brokenshire is Northern Ireland Secretary.

Why sack Villiers? Or did she step down?

She was offered another job and rejected it, then resigned.

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:02 am

To recap. Filled.
Prime Minister - May
Chancellor of the Exchequer - Hammond
Home Secretary - Rudd
Foreign Secretary - Johnson
'Brexit' Secretary - Davis
International Trade Secretary - Fox
Defence Secretary - Fallon
Education Secretary - Greening
Justice Secretary - Truss
Health Secretary - Hunt
Chief Whip - Williamson
Work and Pensions Secretary - Green
Environment Secretary - Leadsom
Transport Secretary - Grayling
Communities and Local Government Secretary - Javid
Leader of the House of Lords - Baroness Evans
Conservative Party Chairman - McLoughlin
Northern Ireland Secretary - Brokenshire
Business & Energy Secretary - Clarke
International Development Secretary - Patel
Wales Secretary - Cairns
Culture Secretary - Bradley


Not filled.
Leader of the House of Commons - TBA
Scotland Secretary - TBA

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Questers
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:02 am

Vassenor wrote:Philip Hammond confirms UK will leave single market following Brexit

Well, guess we can kiss the economy goodbye.
Yeah, Britain was a third world country before 1973.
Restore the Crown

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:04 am

Questers wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Philip Hammond confirms UK will leave single market following Brexit

Well, guess we can kiss the economy goodbye.
Yeah, Britain was a third world country before 1973.

"If it worked in the past, we can just go back to it" is such a shit line of argument and you know it.

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Questers
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:06 am

Freefall11111 wrote:
Questers wrote: Yeah, Britain was a third world country before 1973.

"If it worked in the past, we can just go back to it" is such a shit line of argument and you know it.
Yes, but: "we won't have an economy without the single market" is not true and you know it.

One can claim, quite truly, that our economy will suffer. But hyperbole in this situation is unwarranted, and stupid.
Last edited by Questers on Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Restore the Crown

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:07 am

Questers wrote:
Freefall11111 wrote:"If it worked in the past, we can just go back to it" is such a shit line of argument and you know it.
Yes, but: "we won't have an economy without the single market" is not true and you know it.

One can claim, quite truly, that our economy will suffer. But hyperbole in this situation is unwarranted, and stupid.

Whataboutism isn't a valid response.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:07 am

Brexiteer Lord Wolfson warns over cuts to immigration

One of the business world's most prominent campaigners for Brexit has told the BBC that a big reduction in immigration will damage the UK economy.

Lord Wolfson, chief executive of Next, said: "Any move to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands would be very dangerous for the economy."

It sounds, at first, like a curious thing for a Leave voter to say.

But Lord Wolfson insists that immigration was NOT the key issue for many who wanted out of the EU.


We have to wonder if he actually talked to people about their reasons for voting as they did.
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Questers
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:07 am

Like let's say we have -5% economic growth next year. That makes us as poor as Japan, and richer than South Korea and Italy. We have room to not hit the panic button, our country isn't going to implode.
Restore the Crown

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:08 am

Questers wrote:Like let's say we have -5% economic growth next year. That makes us as poor as Japan, and richer than South Korea and Italy. We have room to not hit the panic button, our country isn't going to implode.


Wasn't the last recession caused by -1% growth?
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:08 am

Questers wrote:Like let's say we have -5% economic growth next year. That makes us as poor as Japan, and richer than South Korea and Italy. We have room to not hit the panic button, our country isn't going to implode.

"Look at all this room we have to fail" doesn't sound very comforting.
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That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
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Questers
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:08 am

Vassenor wrote:
Questers wrote:Like let's say we have -5% economic growth next year. That makes us as poor as Japan, and richer than South Korea and Italy. We have room to not hit the panic button, our country isn't going to implode.


Wasn't the last recession caused by -1% growth?
Yes, something like that. So if you think that leaving the single market would be 5x worse than the banking crisis, we would only be as poor as Japan, and still be richer than Italy and South Korea.
Restore the Crown

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Questers
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:09 am

Alvecia wrote:
Questers wrote:Like let's say we have -5% economic growth next year. That makes us as poor as Japan, and richer than South Korea and Italy. We have room to not hit the panic button, our country isn't going to implode.

"Look at all this room we have to fail" doesn't sound very comforting.

Looks like someone's never taken a risk before.
Restore the Crown

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Freefall11111
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Postby Freefall11111 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:10 am

Questers wrote:
Alvecia wrote:"Look at all this room we have to fail" doesn't sound very comforting.

Looks like someone's never taken a risk before.

You don't coordinate macro-econ policy by taking risks.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:11 am

Freefall11111 wrote:
Questers wrote:Looks like someone's never taken a risk before.

You don't coordinate macro-econ policy by taking risks.

I was under the impression that macro-economics was somewhat risk averse. Was I wrong?
British
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That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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Questers
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Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Questers » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:12 am

Everything involved with economy and business views risk as a negative, and stability and certainty as an incredible positive.

Nevertheless, polities sometimes take risks. Individuals sometimes take risks. A life without risk is not a life at all.

All I am saying is that if we have another recession the country won't implode or become a third world turdhole. We are actually much wealthier than we think we are (or more realistically, the rest of the developed world is much poorer than we think it is.)
Last edited by Questers on Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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