UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Vassenor]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

So it might be a case of "Uh... I'm only doing this because all the others said I should..."?

[MERIZoC]

So it should be even more niche?

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Who knows? It would be democratic nonetheless, provided there was no coordinated effort by a Tory group to hijack labour or something along those lines. What this comes down to is labour disenfranchising people it fears. That's no way to make a party popular.

[Souseiseki]

convince me that angela eagle is a strong left-wing candidate

[Imperializt Russia]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

I dunno, Brexit someone won it off that.

[Geilinor]

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Who knows? It would be democratic nonetheless, provided there was no coordinated effort by a Tory group to hijack labour or something along those lines. What this comes down to is labour disenfranchising people it fears. That's no way to make a party popular.

It would be democratic, but would you be defending it or trying to get the candidate replaced?

[Imperializt Russia]

So it should be even more niche?

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Well, they wouldn't have.

They'd have joined UKIP or the Tories and been much more effective.

[MERIZoC]

Who knows? It would be democratic nonetheless, provided there was no coordinated effort by a Tory group to hijack labour or something along those lines. What this comes down to is labour disenfranchising people it fears. That's no way to make a party popular.

It would be democratic, but would you be defending it or trying to get the candidate replaced?

I'd be trying to get people to vote them out...

[Vassenor]

So it should be even more niche?

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Who managed to get 70% of the party membership to vote in favour of Remain.

[Bakery Hill]

policies that actually help the average person instead are actually more popular

Clearly not, see: Brexit.

Well the public don't fit neatly in either camp. See this.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/06/su ... and-right/

[Arkolon]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

So it might be a case of "Uh... I'm only doing this because all the others said I should..."?

She looks so awkward. It's unfortunate.

[MERIZoC]

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Well, they wouldn't have.

They'd have joined UKIP or the Tories and been much more effective.

Tbt all the scaremongering that the people voting for Corbyn were actually secret Tories

[Souseiseki]

i am enjoying people saying "but hmm what if right-wingers took over the party what then huh" as if isn't exactly what already happened

[Geilinor]

It would be democratic, but would you be defending it or trying to get the candidate replaced?

I'd be trying to get people to vote them out...

That's what the leadership challenges here are doing.

[Hydesland]

Democracy is entirely meaningless in the context of a party, a party is meant to stay consistent and represent a concrete set of values, there is no inherent ideal or coherent moral case for demanding a party be as open to the general public as possible.

[Bakery Hill]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

So it might be a case of "Uh... I'm only doing this because all the others said I should..."?

I don't want to guess too much at all the machinations behind it, but from what I can see, she's a compromise candidate. The Blairites who started the "coup" bringing the soft left in from the cold etc. It just looks like a fucking train wreck though. I hate to see people so awkward in public.

[MERIZoC]

I'd be trying to get people to vote them out...

That's what the leadership challenges here are doing.

And this is quite clearly their last choice as everything else failed

Plus you know, the disenfranchisement thing

[Bakery Hill]

convince me that angela eagle is a strong left-wing candidate

Not sure I can help you there.

[Vassenor]

Democracy is entirely meaningless in the context of a party, a party is meant to stay consistent and represent a concrete set of values, there is no inherent ideal or coherent moral case for demanding a party be as open to the general public as possible.

No, but it could at least stop trying to stifle the voices of its members.

[MERIZoC]

Democracy is entirely meaningless in the context of a party, a party is meant to stay consistent and represent a concrete set of values, there is no inherent ideal or coherent moral case for demanding a party be as open to the general public as possible.

Then Corbyn is a return to those ideals

[Bakery Hill]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

I dunno, Brexit someone won it off that.

Sorry, don't understand you there mate.

[Imperializt Russia]

I dunno, Brexit someone won it off that.

Sorry, don't understand you there mate.

Brexit had no strategy, preparation, "no real platform or principles" and it became abundantly clear they all knew it the morning the vote came through when they were passing responsibility around like it was a polonium-hot potato.

[Hydesland]

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

Well, they wouldn't have.

They'd have joined UKIP or the Tories and been much more effective.

It's an easily possible hypothetical 2 years ago. If the conservatives decided not to allow a referendum but still won marginally - given that Labour in the past have been anti Europe it's possible an anti Europe candidate might have a go. In which case, it's easily the best choice for anti Europe voters to support that candidate, as Labour are far bigger than UKIP and would have a far greater chance at winning.

[Olivaero]

Democracy is entirely meaningless in the context of a party, a party is meant to stay consistent and represent a concrete set of values, there is no inherent ideal or coherent moral case for demanding a party be as open to the general public as possible.

>thinks the party should represent a concrete set if values
>supports a faction of it that literally rewrote the values to serve its self

[Hydesland]

Democracy is entirely meaningless in the context of a party, a party is meant to stay consistent and represent a concrete set of values, there is no inherent ideal or coherent moral case for demanding a party be as open to the general public as possible.

No, but it could at least stop trying to stifle the voices of its members.

It's not trying to stifle the voices of its core membership, just raising the cost of new membership, slightly.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well, they wouldn't have.

They'd have joined UKIP or the Tories and been much more effective.

It's an easily possible hypothetical 2 years ago. If the conservatives decided not to allow a referendum but still won marginally - given that Labour in the past have been anti Europe it's possible an anti Europe candidate might have a go. In which case, it's easily the best choice for anti Europe voters to support that candidate, as Labour are far bigger than UKIP and would have a far greater chance at winning.

I suspect we wouldn't really have cared, because we'd still have been without a left-wing leader, like all my life, and the party would still have been right-leaning.

We're now fighting for something we didn't have before and something we may never have again.