UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Imperializt Russia]

REAL LABOUR MEMBERS DON'T VOTE FOR CORBYN

>the vibe I am getting.
Eagle won't win an election.

[Arkolon]

@Brit Why would it drop?

[Hydesland]

I like to think of it more as coming to a realization that if all it takes is a few quid, being a party member is fairly meaningless.

Why can't they just respect democracy?

A niche aspect of society brigading a party membership to support a specific candidate is hardly democracy.

[Britanno 2]

Why can't they just respect democracy?

Because the reason for party members choosing the leader was meant to be that people committed to the party get a say. All these new members aren't committed to the party, defeating the point of having the membership elect the leader. With the £3 rules they may as well open the vote up to anyone.

[Souseiseki]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

[Souseiseki]

*admitted blairties post one relatively extreme policy, completely ignoring the word "majority" and pretending they've somehow won*

[Olivaero]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

*peter mandelson appears out of the mist* "I'm afraid i cant let you do that sous"

[Hydesland]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

Someone said the same about Theresa May's recent speech.

[Imperializt Russia]

Why can't they just respect democracy?

Because the reason for party members choosing the leader was meant to be that people committed to the party get a say. All these new members aren't committed to the party, defeating the point of having the membership elect the leader. With the £3 rules they may as well open the vote up to anyone.

Has it escaped you that maybe the overwhelming majority of the new members who joined since Corbyn was nominated were there because Labour, a socialist party, finally nominated a socialist MP for party leader and a lot of people who consider themselves "Labour" have been waiting for precisely this?

I don't know who was party leader before Blair, or even when Blair became head of the party.
So as far as I'm concerned, Corbyn is the first socialist, or more accurately socialist-leaning, Labour party leader in my lifetime. I'm 23.

[Britanno 2]

REAL LABOUR MEMBERS DON'T VOTE FOR CORBYN

>the vibe I am getting.
Eagle won't win an election.

I don't think any Labour leader could win the next elect tbh. The difference between Corbyn and Eagle is the size of the Tory majority in my opinion.

@Brit Why would it drop?

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/la ... st-brexit/

[Barrera]

"Dave's not here man"—definitely that one!

Well, it's nice to see another woman in the post. It's 2016 and women make up just over half the population of the country—there ought to be more of them in politics. Hopefully, seeing May as PM and potentially a first female leader for Labour, young women of all political persuasions will be inspired to get involved.

Speaking of Labour, that party is in free fall. I personally feel Corbyn shouldn't resign. He was overwhelmingly backed by the membership of the party. This 'parliamentary coup' is what has undermined Labour. They're too focused on politics and not policies; many of Corbyn's being popular with the public in blind policy tests. If the 'right-wing' of the Labour Party don't support Corbyn, they have the 'Gang of Four' option...

[Britanno 2]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

You idealists are funny sometimes.

Has it escaped you that maybe the overwhelming majority of the new members who joined since Corbyn was nominated were there because Labour, a socialist party, finally nominated a socialist MP for party leader and a lot of people who consider themselves "Labour" have been waiting for precisely this?

No, it hasn't escaped me. You're just wrong to assume you're in the majority. People joined because they wanted a "new kind of politics" and all that idealistic bullshit. Few signed up for the sake of socialism because few people have the same understanding of socialism or political ideology as you clearly do.

[MERIZoC]

Why can't they just respect democracy?

A niche aspect of society brigading a party membership to support a specific candidate is hardly democracy.

So it should be even more niche?

[Geilinor]

Farage will be attending the GOP convention. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/nigel-farage-attend-republican-convention-225434

*dies*

[Souseiseki]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

You idealists are funny sometimes.

sorry mate. it turns out that, absent (or even including) the media screaming about how taxes on £1,000,000 estates affect you personally, policies that actually help the average person instead are actually more popular than muh business privatize everything cut everything.

[Hydesland]

a lot of people who consider themselves "Labour" have been waiting for precisely this?

I really don't think it's that. The people on the hard left that consider themselves 'true Labour' are a small dwindling group of dinosaurs, it's mostly younger people who are just left wing and not affiliated with any party in particular.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well as I clarified, it's not "socialism". What Corbyn would bring us is a return to democratic socialism, a way of doing things this country was once very good at.

[Hydesland]

A niche aspect of society brigading a party membership to support a specific candidate is hardly democracy.

So it should be even more niche?

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

[Imperializt Russia]

a lot of people who consider themselves "Labour" have been waiting for precisely this?

I really don't think it's that. The people on the hard left that consider themselves 'true Labour' are a small dwindling group of dinosaurs, it's mostly younger people who are just left wing and not affiliated with any party in particular.

Yeah, people who voted Green idealistically or Labour tribally/tactically in 2015 because Labour didn't offer them what Labour ostensibly promises to.

Now it does. Or might.

[Hydesland]

policies that actually help the average person instead are actually more popular

Clearly not, see: Brexit.

[Barrera]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

This quite is exactly right. If they put aside their politics and focused on promoting policies (that happen to be quite popular with the general public—especially in blind policy tests), then Labour wouldn't be in free fall and the Conservatives wouldn't have free rein.

[Olivaero]

A niche aspect of society brigading a party membership to support a specific candidate is hardly democracy.

So it should be even more niche?

Ah but its the right niche y'see, the right sort who can afford the higher membership. What? Elitist? The Centerists? P'shaw.

[Souseiseki]

So it should be even more niche?

They have a right to try and keep it somewhat cohesive.

I wonder how many people would be screaming democracy, if it were a surge of right leaning £3 members voting in a staunchly anti Europe candidate last year.

lol i just remembered the voting reforms were done to try and stop a left-wing candidate getting in

still funny

hey if it's so niche why do they keep having to try to rig the elections and change the rules to win that's kinda weird

[Bakery Hill]

Every time I've seen Angela Eagle in her short campaign it's made me cringe. No strategy, no preparation, no real platform or principles, and it seems as if she knows it in herself.

[Geilinor]

"Most people when presented with the majority of policies that Corbyn supports agree with them, I believe that if the party were behind him and focused their efforts on getting their message out, then they could do well. "

please put this on fucking billboards

This quite is exactly right. If they put aside their politics and focused on promoting policies (that happen to be quite popular with the general public—especially in blind policy tests), then Labour wouldn't be in free fall and the Conservatives wouldn't have free rein.

People may support individual policies but not be willing to vote for the party or for a certain leader.